ARRL: Good, Bad or Inbetween?

[zz0468]

Well did you read the posts? First off, if people want to complain, they can.

This is very true, and very useless. Unless you complain in the right direction, no one will hear you, and no one will care.

Don't like it, just like a QSO on 20, use your VFO and act accordingly. No one is forcing you to read the complaints.

C'mon... you sort of know me, in a RR sorta way. I LIKE to jump into these debates.

Join up? Why? (BTW, tried that in 1987/1988, sent money, never got a membership). Why would I want to try that again?

I've had that happen. A quick phone call fixed it.

Give away more money to an organization that clearly isn't interested in having me as a member? Why not send a check to the KKK while I'm at it. They don't represent me either.

The KKK doesn't represent you because you don't want them to. The ARRL doesn't represent you because you won't let them.

One of these things is not like the other.

I don't need the ARRL and their paper tiger titles of all chiefs and no indians to get my point to the FCC or government agencies. It's 2013, there's this great thing called the Internet.

Where you're selling yourself short is the fact that, without your membership, the ARRL will exist anyway, and will put forth an agenda... an agenda that doesn't include you or your comments.

If you expect the ARRL to do everything your way, you're immature. If you expect the ARRL to do anything your way without talking to them, you're an idiot.

The ECFS was instrumental in effecting proper rule clarifications for use of ham radio by EMA employees. If anything, reading the comments, it were the old fart leaguers who were moaning and complaining that some evil gubment folks were gonna take away their precious sandbox. Yeah, that's a great attitude.

Perhaps what was needed was more comments from people who disagreed. I doubt the ARRL fishes RR for comments to apply to their responses to FCC issues.

Kind of like the petitioning the FCC against new technologies like Sky Command- the ARRL certainly has advancing the art of radio communications technology at their heart. Where are they on P25, or DMR? Silence speaks volumes. Oh I'm sure they'll tell me that MotoTRBO on ham radio is illegal...yawn. Send me an "OO" notice then.

This is where having the ear of the local Section Manager really pays off. The fact is, you're doing everything wrong, in terms of getting anyone to listen to your input. YOU have to make phone calls. YOU have to write letters and e-mails. And some of them HAVE to b to the ARRL, because "without your membership, the ARRL will exist anyway, and will put forth an agenda... an agenda that doesn't include you or your comments".

The ONLY reason I'm a member is because, as a member, they will listen to what I have to say. I make sure of it.

 

[zz0468]

I figure that if they protect their 160,000 members, watershed from their actions will protect me and I don't have to get involved with the politics I detest.

Another ineffective non-participant.

 

[MTS2000des]

This is very true, and very useless. Unless you complain in the right direction, no one will hear you, and no one will care.



C'mon... you sort of know me, in a RR sorta way. I LIKE to jump into these debates.



I've had that happen. A quick phone call fixed it.



The KKK doesn't represent you because you don't want them to. The ARRL doesn't represent you because you won't let them.

One of these things is not like the other.



Where you're selling yourself short is the fact that, without your membership, the ARRL will exist anyway, and will put forth an agenda... an agenda that doesn't include you or your comments.

If you expect the ARRL to do everything your way, you're immature. If you expect the ARRL to do anything your way without talking to them, you're an idiot.



Perhaps what was needed was more comments from people who disagreed. I doubt the ARRL fishes RR for comments to apply to their responses to FCC issues.



This is where having the ear of the local Section Manager really pays off. The fact is, you're doing everything wrong, in terms of getting anyone to listen to your input. YOU have to make phone calls. YOU have to write letters and e-mails. And some of them HAVE to b to the ARRL, because "without your membership, the ARRL will exist anyway, and will put forth an agenda... an agenda that doesn't include you or your comments".

The ONLY reason I'm a member is because, as a member, they will listen to what I have to say. I make sure of it.

I don't expect the ARRL, or any organization, to do anything specifically for me. Never said I did. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I do expect and organization that holds itself out as "THE" national organization for amateur radio to do more than promote itself, and do more to represent us as a whole. It is the one holding itself out to be that, not I- I'm merely calling them on their false claims.
Don't advertise something you can't deliver. Take that up with Newington.

You can continue to shoot the messenger, or read the message. I didn't start the thread, someone else did. Obviously by the raw numbers, the ARRL is falling short of their mission, if their mission is indeed to be "THE NATIONAL RESOURCE FOR AMATEUR RADIO" (again, their words, not mine).

160,000 members out of 700,000 indicates a problem. You can shout at me, or you can use your free long distance and complain to your "section manager" (gotta love these meaningless titles they hand out like mall security guard badges, totally meaningless IMO) about this. Or continue to live in denial that the organization itself is out of touch with the amateur radio community in general and keep on sending those checks! I'm glad you feel you're getting your money's worth.

(Sidenote: again, read my post. I called/wrote the mighty league in Jan and Feb 1988 about my missing membership. Never got the courtesy of a reply. I'm done with it. Burn me once, shame on me for allowing it to happen. Never again, why bother? They had their chance. It was 22 years ago. Nothing has really changed up there but more hot air)

I'd personally rather support other NPO's that actually fulfill their mission. The ARRL isn't one of them in my book. Glad it's working for you. For the other 540,000 of us, it isn't.

 

[Jimru]

Hey Fellas,

Although I am not a moderator, I am the OP and I am asking that we keep this a civil discussion. Let's try to keep name calling and innuendo out of it.

As Groucho once said; "Love goes out the door when money comes innuendo".

Thanks to all for participating in the discussion!

73,
Jim

 

[MTS2000des]

Hey Fellas,

Although I am not a moderator, I am the OP and I am asking that we keep this a civil discussion. Let's try to keep name calling and innuendo out of it.

As Groucho once said; "Love goes out the door when money comes innuendo".

Thanks to all for participating in the discussion!

73,
Jim

That's what I thought one of the rules were: no name calling or personal attacks. But I've also learned here that mods have a selective enforcement policy.

all name calling and personal attacks demonstrate is someone's inability to argue on facts alone so that's what children resort to.

I've stated my reasons I am not a member of the ARRL, and why I don't feel they represent the majority of US amateur radio operators' interests.

then someone comes along with a troll response of "STFU if you aren't a member" which I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how this is relevant to the discussion, then he starts calling names.

dare I say typical of the organization? further reinforces why I want nothing to do with them.

 

[poppafred]

Another ineffective non-participant.

I was an effective participant until I got sick of the local politics garbage. Narcissistic personalities always float to the top, just like feces. After a little, the smell drives you away.

If you kick a dog every time you walk into the room, sooner or later the dog is gonna leave as soon as it hears you coming.

 

[Jimru]

I was an effective participant until I got sick of the local politics garbage. Narcissistic personalities always float to the top, just like feces. After a little, the smell drives you away.

If you kick a dog every time you walk into the room, sooner or later the dog is gonna leave as soon as it hears you coming.

The consensus that I am hearing from those that aren't happy with the status quo is that "they" always end up being greedy or narcissistic, but then no one really wants to run against them in an election and fix things.

There is a thought in politics in general that the people who run for office in the first place must have something wrong with them because they want to run for office!

Well, this may be true on some cases, I can't really argue with that.

 

[zz0468]

Perhaps because of the political nature of the subject, I am conducting myself as if this is a political thread in the tavern, and for that I apologize. I am not specifically calling anyone names, but was referring more to the idea that the expectation that an organization can come anywhere close to representing people's interests when people refuse to participate is, well, in my opinion... not smart.

I tend to look at the ARRL as a political animal, and so I treat it like one. The regulatory aspect is driven by two things - money and politics. Just like people will grumble about non-voters who complain about the state of the country, I'm grumbling about non-participants who complain about the state of the ARRL. So, the OP asked for opinions. As I said before, the single biggest problem is the people who refuse to participate in the (unfortunately) political process that dictate what we do in the hobby.

 

[zz0468]

Could it be that the majority of U.S.-licensed hams really aren't that active and therefore don't need an organization to represent their interests?

I think the real issue is that the majority of U.S. hams are extraordinarily cheap.

 

[Jimru]

I think the real issue is that the majority of U.S. hams are extraordinarily cheap.

Hey zz,

I know a few that can stretch a dollar, but I'm not sure how that translates; unless you mean some won't join because of the membership fee.

We've had one person here mention that in his case. In this economy, it's hard to argue with that, especially if you consider that many hams, if not the majority, are retired or are going to be soon, thus having a fixed income and so choosing what and where to put their donations.

Although I am "pro" ARRL, I am asking for all opinions and am not judging. I am not trying to change anyone's mind, either.

Btw, glad you realized this isn't the Tavern!

73,
Jim

 

[zz0468]

I know a few that can stretch a dollar, but I'm not sure how that translates; unless you mean some won't join because of the membership fee.

That's what I mean. They see the fee as too much for a magazine, or whatever other benefit they may get, so don't want to pay.

We've had one person here mention that in his case. In this economy, it's hard to argue with that...

Indeed. By "cheap", I'm referring to the hams that can well afford $40 or so per year, but chose not to, because it's "too expensive".

One can't argue at all with a case of truly being unable to afford it. There's a difference between "cheap" and "low income".

...especially if you consider that many hams, if not the majority, are retired or are going to be soon, thus having a fixed income and so choosing what and where to put their donations.

That's another problem entirely, the aging ham population. This is another case of our collective apathy feeding on itself.

Although I am "pro" ARRL, I am asking for all opinions and am not judging. I am not trying to change anyone's mind, either.

I'm not "pro ARRL", either. I am "pro membership", however. The only way to affect change and improve upon an organization is from within. Standing on the outside lamenting how unresponsive they are is an exercise in futility. I made a comparison to general politics in a previous post. I see it as exactly the same thing. People complaining about the president, for example, when they never voted for anyone at all. I guess my attitude is a variation of "lead, follow, or get out of the way". I find it quite annoying when people neither lead, nor follow, but instead just mill about complaining. Call it a pet peeve.

Btw, glad you realized this isn't the Tavern!

Yeah, well... I got a bit over enthusiastic. :lol:

 

[W2IBC]

160,000 members out of 700,000 indicates a problem. You can shout at me, or you can use your free long distance and complain to your "section manager" (gotta love these meaningless titles they hand out like mall security guard badges, totally meaningless IMO) about this. Or continue to live in denial that the organization itself is out of touch with the amateur radio community in general and keep on sending those checks! I'm glad you feel you're getting your money's worth.

Id say a good majority of those 700k licenses are from the hi hi om grab that orange vest and 10 HT's and lets go save the day emcomm wacker crap I see pushed all the time.

 

[N8OHU]

I'm not "pro ARRL", either. I am "pro membership", however. The only way to affect change and improve upon an organization is from within. Standing on the outside lamenting how unresponsive they are is an exercise in futility. :

And yet, until people join and see what they ARE doing, they won't realize how much of what they think is simply FCC or Congressional legislation is actually in part the doing of the ARRL. How much good would the ECFS that another poster mention do if all that was in it was stuff about Commercial Band radio communications, because no one cared enough to save the ham radio bands? Ironically, those of us that are ARRL members are supporting the League's efforts on behalf of ALL RADIO AMATEURS.

 

[N8OHU]

Id say a good majority of those 700k licenses are from the hi hi om grab that orange vest and 10 HT's and lets go save the day emcomm wacker crap I see pushed all the time.

ARES/RACES are as much a part of Amateur Radio as anything else, and, like experimentation, are a core part of what it is supposed to be. I'm sorry if guys like me (OhiO ARES District Ten member) bother you, but we don't consider ourselves "wackers". You won't see a forest of antennas on my vehicles, nor will you see it on most of the ones I know.

 

[SigIntel8600]

Have you ever utilized your amateur radio license in conjuction with ARES / RACES in an emmcom situation other than training nets? My personal opinion based on my observations is that many ARES/RACES/SKYWARN/REACT members are in it for the orange vests, yellow lights, and "emergency" badges, hardhats, etc. The wacker term fits many..........

ARES/RACES are as much a part of Amateur Radio as anything else, and, like experimentation, are a core part of what it is supposed to be. I'm sorry if guys like me (OhiO ARES District Ten member) bother you, but we don't consider ourselves "wackers". You won't see a forest of antennas on my vehicles, nor will you see it on most of the ones I know.

 

[Jimru]

Id say a good majority of those 700k licenses are from the hi hi om grab that orange vest and 10 HT's and lets go save the day emcomm wacker crap I see pushed all the time.

Actually, I would testify that you are quite wrong about that! Very few hams make up the ranks of ARES/RACES and whether you choose to believe it or not, the agencies they (we, I should say) serve are very appreciative of what our capabilities are and the hard work that is done to support them.

Having said that, I think there is a tendency since 9/11 to over emphasize that aspect of the service, over other, just as valid, things like contesting, DXing, home brewing, etc. this is because public service is seen very much as a recruitment tool and it is an over-emphasis, in my opinion.

However, that could be a whole other thread!

Believe me when I tell you though, that public service is a very small sliver of the ham population. In New York City, with literally thousands and thousands of licensees, we could only really ever muster about 120 members in the NYC District of ARES.

There are other non-ARRL Emcomm groups, by the way, and they do some great work, but they don't have the nationwide organization of ARES, which is the ARRL's creation.

Just wanted to bring us back on topic!

 

[N8OHU]

Have you ever utilized your amateur radio license in conjuction with ARES / RACES in an emmcom situation other than training nets? My personal opinion based on my observations is that many ARES/RACES/SKYWARN/REACT members are in it for the orange vests, yellow lights, and "emergency" badges, hardhats, etc. The wacker term fits many..........

I think that sort is often found where the leadership is more concerned about status; they're not welcome around here, because we don't get caught up in that kind of thing. Have i been called upon; no. Would I respond if needed; absolutely. I'm all about providing assistance to those in need of it, and not expecting any recognition for it.

 

[Jimru]

Have you ever utilized your amateur radio license in conjuction with ARES / RACES in an emmcom situation other than training nets? My personal opinion based on my observations is that many ARES/RACES/SKYWARN/REACT members are in it for the orange vests, yellow lights, and "emergency" badges, hardhats, etc. The wacker term fits many..........

There are those kinds of guys, to be sure, but there are whacked guys that aren't affiliated at all and so what does that prove?

In my case, we supported the Greater New York Red Cross all during hurricane Irene in 2011 and Sandy in 2012. They asked us to be there.

Here on Cape Cod where I just moved to a month ago, the Emcomm groups all though out the Cape served many long hours in shelters as well as Emergency Operation Centers.

Most of the time, yes, it's drilling and working the "A-thons", but it's that drilling and event work that pays off when the real thing finally comes.

Think what you want, it's your right, I'm not here to recruit you, that is for sure.

 

[SigIntel8600]

OK...."supporting" the Red Cross during Irene and Sandy sounds important and all......but what exactly does that mean? Did you handle emergency radio traffic, or perform some other essential service or did you sit around with your orange vest and hardhat with your "Amateur Radio Emergency Services" gear on. Mind you, I'm not slamming volunteers, but look at all the ARRL puff pieces in QST concerning emcomm, most of the articles show chunky hams sitting around their radios really not doing anything............

 

[Jimru]

OK...."supporting" the Red Cross during Irene and Sandy sounds important and all......but what exactly does that mean? Did you handle emergency radio traffic, or perform some other essential service or did you sit around with your orange vest and hardhat with your "Amateur Radio Emergency Services" gear on. Mind you, I'm not slamming volunteers, but look at all the ARRL puff pieces in QST concerning emcomm, most of the articles show chunky hams sitting around their radios really not doing anything............

This really should be another thread, but during Irene, one of the upstate counties Red Cross EOCs lost power, lost all comms including landline, everything.

Volunteer ARES members went up there through all kinds of destruction and established communications.

Often we are back up, this is true, but once again, because the ARES members were prepared and willing to give up their time, the Red Cross HQ in NYC was able once again to communicate with the upstate EOC.

Let's get back to the topic of the ARRL or we can start a new thread on this subject, where I will be happy to defend any ham that is willing to give up their personal time to volunteer.

This is the last I will discuss it here, but thanks for your point of view.