k6cpo
Member
Even though I have one, I don't view the Baofengs, especially the ubiquitous UV-5R, as being ham radios. Handhelds, like my Yaesu FT-270, FT1D or FT-60R, are a different matter.
ARRL statement on the Purpose of Amateur Radio
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Even though I have one, I don't view the Baofengs, especially the ubiquitous UV-5R, as being ham radios. Handhelds, like my Yaesu FT-270, FT1D or FT-60R, are a different matter.
intuity
Member
... Seeing how voracious LE is being with seeking out and prosecuting the perpetrators of the DC event, I am reminded of a few times that the FCC decided to revoke an amateur's license grant for "lacking the requisite character qualifications to be and remain a Commission licensee".
What happens if the FCC gets the idea to yank the ticket of any licensee that the FBI is looking for in connection to that event? They've justified it before for what the Commission feels to be heinous crimes, so how heinous is sedition - to wit, how heinous is it to use your license to operate equipment in a manner which enables that seditious act?
What happens if the FCC gets the idea to yank the ticket of any licensee that the FBI is looking for in connection to that event? They've justified it before for what the Commission feels to be heinous crimes, so how heinous is sedition - to wit, how heinous is it to use your license to operate equipment in a manner which enables that seditious act?
In this case, I'm not sure it matters what you think. It matters what law enforcement, the news media, and the general public perceives. As has been inferred in this thread and elsewhere, most non-hams couldn't tell an amateur radio handheld from a short piece of 2x4 painted black.
That could happen. Also, the FCC amateur radio license application form (new, upgrade, renewal) now includes a "have you been convicted of a felony" question. It sounds like some of the folks involved in the DC riot may be charged with felonies. I suspect, though, that losing their amateur radio license privileges may be the least of their worries.
Umm you guys do know that militia and BLM/Antifa/Code Pink etc have been using radios for this since before 2000? That the use of the MURS and FRS/GMRS is well documented? That yes, out in the wide open areas they even use CB for longer ranges? There are literally dozens of websites documenting this. The Feds have known about all this since at least 1998. The big hoopla is all BS and if you have not figured it out by now you really must let us know which rock your bat cave is under. The LEA's did not bother to let anyone know about anything all summer when cities burned and BLM and Antifa were having those "peaceful protests" and all over the MURS, FRS etc. I had a ball listening when on my RD-5R I heard all the "protestors" making up their little plots and plans. Coordinating where to go when the "popo" was popping tear gas and paint balls on such and such streets... And hearing on the scanners when the "popo" actually started getting informed of this by the Feds.... I know I am not the only one that actually has been paying attention to the smell of the poop in the winds for quite a few years now.
KB2GOM
Active Member
Yes, of course, but as a licensed ham for over 3 decades, I would prefer to not be painted with the same brush because of ignorance/inaccuracy/malfeasance of the press.
Yes. Just like outlawing certain recreational drugs effectively stopped their use. Except in prisons, schools, and everywhere else.
KB2GOM
Active Member
I would love to see some documentation on that.
Activity, or illegal activity? Protesting is legal; the only illegal part was breaking into the Capitol building. And not everyone inside the Capitol broke in; there's video of doors being opened and people simply walking in while police stand by and watch, but do nothing to stop them.
jhooten
Member
Again,by licensed operators or bootleggers on CCRs?
I don't know. I imagine if the League wanted to share information widely, they would have already.
Keep in mind that prosecutors are presumably trying to put together a case for conspiracy, so folks who have details might not be in a position to share those details.
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't more than someone simply overheard some folks at the protest talking on 2m, and that plus the pictures of attendees wearing Baofengs is enough to have created a bit of a PR problem for amateur radio given that some folks in the general public might not make a distinction between "legal protest" and "illegal trespass, etc.".
And if it were more than that, I'm not certain it's wise to share information with modes of communication that did or didn't "work" with any hypothetical organizers of the criminal side of the activities. It seemed like at least some of those that went too far that day weren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, and I don't know that it's necessarily the best idea to volunteer information from whence to learn operations/communications security lessons.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
There is an understatement.
Truth is, there's a lot of communications methods available. I don't doubt that some may have been on amateur frequencies, but as you eloquently pointed out, these guys were not the sharpest tools in the shed, and looking at how many issues people report on this website with programming CCR's, I'd not be surprised if many of them were not on default frequencies.
Some are forgetting a very critical part of the criminal justice process here: Evidence that is presentable in a court of law.
Photos of someone with a 'Dinky-Dau' portable in their hand is not empirical evidence that they were transmitting without a license, that they were transmitting in contravention of state or Federal law, or in support of an illegal gathering, insurrection, or other prohibited action. They could have been calling for assistance for an injured person, for assistance from law enforcement, or other lawful actions.
The DC PD, the Capitol PD, the US Park Police, and many other agencies have zero RF interception capabilities other than "Sting-Ray" devices for cell phones. Someone spontaneously broadcasting drug transactions on CB channel 37 USB and in the clear is going to find it easy because local, State, and many Federal agencies have no intercept capacity. Sure, they can request assistance from the FCC, but this pre-supposes that they know that it will likely happen and that the FCC has the personnel and equipment available.
The NSA/CSS has recordings of most, if not all the RF traffic in the area, but they will not disclose their capabilities and capacities to the public. That includes open trials of criminally charged suspects, even if an attorney subpoenas them. They are loathe to do so in National Security trials that are closed - because facts get disclosed to counsels on both sides, the judicial officer and their staffs, etc.
Photos/video of someone with a radio in their hands are not conclusive evidence. They are circumstantial evidence.
Photos of someone with a 'Dinky-Dau' portable in their hand is not empirical evidence that they were transmitting without a license, that they were transmitting in contravention of state or Federal law, or in support of an illegal gathering, insurrection, or other prohibited action. They could have been calling for assistance for an injured person, for assistance from law enforcement, or other lawful actions.
The DC PD, the Capitol PD, the US Park Police, and many other agencies have zero RF interception capabilities other than "Sting-Ray" devices for cell phones. Someone spontaneously broadcasting drug transactions on CB channel 37 USB and in the clear is going to find it easy because local, State, and many Federal agencies have no intercept capacity. Sure, they can request assistance from the FCC, but this pre-supposes that they know that it will likely happen and that the FCC has the personnel and equipment available.
The NSA/CSS has recordings of most, if not all the RF traffic in the area, but they will not disclose their capabilities and capacities to the public. That includes open trials of criminally charged suspects, even if an attorney subpoenas them. They are loathe to do so in National Security trials that are closed - because facts get disclosed to counsels on both sides, the judicial officer and their staffs, etc.
Photos/video of someone with a radio in their hands are not conclusive evidence. They are circumstantial evidence.
The criminal element at the Capitol that day are typical criminals that don't give a dxmn what the "rules" are, communications wise or legalwise. They were there to bring about damage, destruction and disruption of a legal process, and no amount of decent intent by others is going to change their kind of agenda. Their 2 digit intelligence levels do not allow them to consider the peripheral pain they might cause in pursuit of their goals, or to acknowledge the concept that they may be arrested and prosecuted for their criminal actions.
The message that went out from the ARRL is a joke, and it is proof of how far out of touch they are with the realities of the man on the street. The ARRL is so out of touch with reality they probably think Washington is still President.
The message that went out from the ARRL is a joke, and it is proof of how far out of touch they are with the realities of the man on the street. The ARRL is so out of touch with reality they probably think Washington is still President.
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The ARRL has done more harm to amateur radio over the last twenty five years than any fringe group could ever do. The ARRL has lobbied to give away the bands time and time again, all so they could keep themselves in business. How many of you have witnessed today's multiple choice memorizing extra class wizards asking why their Baofeng can't hit the repeater? The latest ARRL scam involves the ARRL focusing on EMCOMM, when all else fails, LOL. The ARRL will never get a dime from me.
The ARRL "dispatch" was nothing more than a "cover yer arses" statement that deems to separate them from anyone using an amateur radio frequency while participating in illegal activities.
I find it doubtful that the media, especially the talking heads on cable TV "news" channels, could actually find their arses in the bathtub with both hands and a flashlight, much less note the differences between an amateur radio and a butter churn. They are only experts in their own minds, and the only expertise they can actually claim is in the shameless arts of sensationalism, editorial spin, and self-adulation.
One of the axioms in life should be that when you encounter anyone who self-proclaims or implies expertise in any subject, don't walk away, RUN! And check your wallet!
Yes, I am a curmudgeon, but I'm a practical curmudgeon.
I find it doubtful that the media, especially the talking heads on cable TV "news" channels, could actually find their arses in the bathtub with both hands and a flashlight, much less note the differences between an amateur radio and a butter churn. They are only experts in their own minds, and the only expertise they can actually claim is in the shameless arts of sensationalism, editorial spin, and self-adulation.
One of the axioms in life should be that when you encounter anyone who self-proclaims or implies expertise in any subject, don't walk away, RUN! And check your wallet!
Yes, I am a curmudgeon, but I'm a practical curmudgeon.
This is the overarching point. You can technically define the radios used by Part Approval, by band, by frequencies, by use - professional/business/commercial/amateur/eBay specials/Archer Space Patrol, etc. but it doesn't make a darn bit of difference to the unwashed majority of voters/politicians.
The ARRL may retroactively try to cover their collective posteriors by protecting their precious Type 97 approved gear, but they have been collectively lumped into the communications devices of militants and to the perception of some, they need to be legislated against. Whether one may like the ARRL or not, the collective consciousness has been turned against them
n1das
Member
I found this old thread from 2016. It documents activities that might have prompted the FCC's friendly reminder to not use radios in crimes.
radiofreeq.wordpress.com
Militia Radio Frequencies
The militia-patriot movement in America has embraced radio communications in a big way. Within the past decade, the methods and communications gear have evolved from basic CB or FRS radios, to now …
radiofreeq.wordpress.com
bill4long
Member
I found this old thread from 2016. It documents activities that might have prompted the FCC's friendly reminder to not use radios in crimes.
Militia Radio Frequencies
The militia-patriot movement in America has embraced radio communications in a big way. Within the past decade, the methods and communications gear have evolved from basic CB or FRS radios, to now …
Umm, Antifa/BLM riots of 2020 and the Capitol riot may be a bit more relevant.
Is there any evidence of widespread use by "militias", "patriot" and "prepper" groups using radios in the commission of crimes?
k6cpo
Member
"Dinky-Dau..." Now there's a word I haven't heard in years. My first detachment in VN had an in-bred female dog named "Dinky-Dau..."
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