bakersfield police to go P25 Digital?

[1979lee]

Ive heard a rumor that the bakersfield police dept is activly concidering A P25 system in the near future.
is there a way to look at the fcc website and see if they a getting a licence for digital?
without the freqofnatureDOTcom search functions iam lost on the fcc site


Anyone know anymore about this?

thanks

 

[dougr1252]

A lot of agencies have added digital emission codes to their licenses just in case. However, it looks like Bakersfield is busy in this area.

According to their FY 08-09 final budget:

"Public Safety Communication Improvements – Two (2) police radio channels will be
converted to a digital format as required by the Federal Communications Commission for
$300,000. This is part of a multi-year project to convert all channels to the digital format."

Digital is "required"?

FY 2008-09 ACTION PLAN

3. Complete the installation of a new digital “encrypted” radio communication repeater
system at the North and East Radio Sites to allow confidential radio
communications for the Bakersfield Police Department.

5. Continue to reconfigure the programming of all City radio communications
equipment for increased radio capacity and City/County “common” channels.
6. Complete the installation of twelve (12) radio receivers to improve coverage for
Bakersfield Police and Kern County Sheriff Departments.
7. Upgrade the local law enforcement “common” channel to include City Schools
Security.
8. Add a west receiver site to provide full portable radio coverage to the west side of
the City.


From 2007:
3. Completed the installation of a communications repeater system at the Kelso Peak
Radio Site (East) to allow for all Bakersfield Police and Kern County Sheriff radios
to communicate on a “common” channel.
4. Completed phase one of the reprogramming of all City radio communications
equipment for additional channel capacity and simplicity of operations.
5. Completed the installation of the new radio communications site to improve radio
coverage for City two-way radios on the west side of Bakersfield.

 

[1979lee]

A lot of agencies have added digital emission codes to their licenses just in case. However, it looks like Bakersfield is busy in this area.

According to their FY 08-09 final budget:

"Public Safety Communication Improvements – Two (2) police radio channels will be
converted to a digital format as required by the Federal Communications Commission for
$300,000. This is part of a multi-year project to convert all channels to the digital format."

Digital is "required"?

FY 2008-09 ACTION PLAN

3. Complete the installation of a new digital “encrypted” radio communication repeater
system at the North and East Radio Sites to allow confidential radio
communications for the Bakersfield Police Department.

5. Continue to reconfigure the programming of all City radio communications
equipment for increased radio capacity and City/County “common” channels.
6. Complete the installation of twelve (12) radio receivers to improve coverage for
Bakersfield Police and Kern County Sheriff Departments.
7. Upgrade the local law enforcement “common” channel to include City Schools
Security.
8. Add a west receiver site to provide full portable radio coverage to the west side of
the City.


From 2007:
3. Completed the installation of a communications repeater system at the Kelso Peak
Radio Site (East) to allow for all Bakersfield Police and Kern County Sheriff radios
to communicate on a “common” channel.
4. Completed phase one of the reprogramming of all City radio communications
equipment for additional channel capacity and simplicity of operations.
5. Completed the installation of the new radio communications site to improve radio
coverage for City two-way radios on the west side of Bakersfield.

Thank you for the information.
my opinion is there is no need for digital encryption, especially here in bakersfield.:roll:
the bpd needs more cars and officers on the streets , a lot more than it needs digital radios, maybe they can explain why it takes there department so very long respond to calls, like 4 hours for grafitti taggers, i heard that one a while back.
sorry for the rant, but waste of money a BIG ONE

 

[icis_monitor]

Maybe they can bring back the TV Show 'Bakersfield, P.D.' and get some royalties to help fund new radios. Better than 'Stringers L.A.' any day of the week!

 

[spock00]

A lot of agencies have added digital emission codes to their licenses just in case. However, it looks like Bakersfield is busy in this area.

According to their FY 08-09 final budget:

"Public Safety Communication Improvements – Two (2) police radio channels will be
converted to a digital format as required by the Federal Communications Commission for
$300,000. This is part of a multi-year project to convert all channels to the digital format."

Digital is "required"?

FY 2008-09 ACTION PLAN

3. Complete the installation of a new digital “encrypted” radio communication repeater
system at the North and East Radio Sites to allow confidential radio
communications for the Bakersfield Police Department.

5. Continue to reconfigure the programming of all City radio communications
equipment for increased radio capacity and City/County “common” channels.
6. Complete the installation of twelve (12) radio receivers to improve coverage for
Bakersfield Police and Kern County Sheriff Departments.
7. Upgrade the local law enforcement “common” channel to include City Schools
Security.
8. Add a west receiver site to provide full portable radio coverage to the west side of
the City.


From 2007:
3. Completed the installation of a communications repeater system at the Kelso Peak
Radio Site (East) to allow for all Bakersfield Police and Kern County Sheriff radios
to communicate on a “common” channel.
4. Completed phase one of the reprogramming of all City radio communications
equipment for additional channel capacity and simplicity of operations.
5. Completed the installation of the new radio communications site to improve radio
coverage for City two-way radios on the west side of Bakersfield.

What common channels are they speaking of for city and county? The county fire, city fire and PD are VHF while the KC Sheriff & county services are UHF. I know that they had a mutual aid patched channel before they reconfigured the sheriff channel lineup a few years back. (153.950/453.725) I bet this has changed since then. Personally I think the PD should go to UHF to standardize law enforcement freqs and interoperability in KC.

 

[PJH]

There is a patch that can be used to link the two, but I forget how it is setup. KCSO has encypted channels, and if BPD is upgrading their radios, the digital AND encyption options can be rolled into the cost of the new equipment. The more expensive side is the infrastructure. As they add the base stations, its almost a "flip the switch" sorta deal.

You would be surprised at the number of criminals who have scanners at the house to see when the cops are coming.

As an aside, if BPD waits just long enough, they can pick up the new APX radios which are the new Moto multiband radios and instant back/forth with KCSO. KCSO has been installing Motrola XTL5000's in the vehicles for some time, and when the APX's are released, they will go in as well.

 

[spock00]

There is a patch that can be used to link the two, but I forget how it is setup. KCSO has encypted channels, and if BPD is upgrading their radios, the digital AND encyption options can be rolled into the cost of the new equipment. The more expensive side is the infrastructure. As they add the base stations, its almost a "flip the switch" sorta deal.

You would be surprised at the number of criminals who have scanners at the house to see when the cops are coming.

As an aside, if BPD waits just long enough, they can pick up the new APX radios which are the new Moto multiband radios and instant back/forth with KCSO. KCSO has been installing Motrola XTL5000's in the vehicles for some time, and when the APX's are released, they will go in as well.

The patch I mentioned (153.950/453.725) was used for coordination between Bakersfield city and the county fire. I don't recall much law enforcement traffic if any on it. I'm not surprised at criminals having scanners. Monitoring conventional analog systems is easy (too easy) so it makes sense. Interesting that KCSO purchased p25 capable mobiles (xtl 5000s) but not portables. I thought they were using Kenwood Hts unless they've upgraded. I moved out of the area approx 4 years ago which was right around when they realigned the KCSO and KCFD channel plans. I don't see any of the agencies in Kern county buying APX radios. They're cost prohibitive units and they'd need compatible bases/repeaters so the cost keeps increasing. http://business.motorola.com/publicsafety/apx/index.html

 

[PJH]

From what I gathered at APCO, the APX's really are not going to be much more than the current 5000 series radios. They do not require any infrastruture changes, unless people are going to digital. They can be ordered as analog only, just like the rest of the ASTRO series.

The APX portables can be ordered as a full display/keypad and just a basic top display. As the FD and SO already have MDT's installed, not too much of a reason for the full display model, but you never know.

 

[1979lee]

So this is a done deal right?
there switching to digital .
i know there are lots of scanner out there like the rs pro-96 ect that can recieve digital .
is this system going to be encrypted?

thanks

 

[Eng74]

I would bet they will have encryption but will it be fulltime? That would be somthing to find out from a BPD radio guy or once the system is up and running.

 

[PJH]

From an operational stand point, in the clear or full time encryption will not make a difference. Unlike analog systems using encryption, while operating in the digital mode with encryption enabled, there are no voice quaility issues.

With the amount of crime going on in town, I would guess that they will use it full time, unless the public policy makers want to appease the public for any "open government" issues.

 

[dgower]

The patch I mentioned (153.950/453.725) was used for coordination between Bakersfield city and the county fire. I don't recall much law enforcement traffic if any on it. I'm not surprised at criminals having scanners. Monitoring conventional analog systems is easy (too easy) so it makes sense. Interesting that KCSO purchased p25 capable mobiles (xtl 5000s) but not portables. I thought they were using Kenwood Hts unless they've upgraded. I moved out of the area approx 4 years ago which was right around when they realigned the KCSO and KCFD channel plans. I don't see any of the agencies in Kern county buying APX radios. They're cost prohibitive units and they'd need compatible bases/repeaters so the cost keeps increasing. http://business.motorola.com/publicsafety/apx/index.html

The last time I went there to visit my Dad (October 08), I saw BPD officers carrying XTS5000's

 

[PJH]

Unless doing a large scale cut over, may departments will piece meal a new system together, usually due to budgets. One department I worked for, this is what I had to do. XTS3000's one year, ASTRO Spectra's the next, new consoles and some infrastrure the year after.

Pros: Easier on the budget and taxpayers at the time. Cycle in some newer equipment.
Cons: Price increases each year actually make it a little more expensive in the long run.

 

[1979lee]

I would bet they will have encryption but will it be fulltime? That would be somthing to find out from a BPD radio guy or once the system is up and running.

Hi all,

anyone know a bpd radio guy?
fcc database applied for digital emmisions on ALL of there
KMJ448 callsign repeaters emmision code 20K0F3E
that was in july of 2006.

154.740 20K0F1E bpd ch 4
154.800 20K0F3E bpd ch 2
155.190 20K0F1E bpd ch3
155.310 20K0F1E bpd ch 1
155.430 20K0F3E bpd ch 9
155.550 20K0F3E bpd ch5
155.790 20K0F3E bpd ch 3 repeter input
156.030 20K0F3E bpd ch1 repeter input
159.090 20K0F1E bpd ch 4 repeter input
155.850 20K0F3E bpd ch 2 repeter input
155.010 20K0F1E bpd ch 10? sometimes patched with kcso 453.725
158.970 20K0F3E ?
159.015 20K0F3E ?
155.640 20K0F3E bpd ch 8

 

[cousinkix1953]

Full time encryption? It sounds like another case of Orange County paranoia. Better sell your scanner while you can get a few bucks for it. We don't have much P-25 activityin my area yet. I'm not gonna buy another scanner until I see just what the new system will look like in 2012 or 13.

Not likely that we will have the same problems here; because activists are leery of police power and the authorities in general. The last time the city of Santa Cruz put a 9-1-1 tax measure on the ballot (to buy P-25 radios) it was voted down overwhelmingly.

NARROW-BANDING is required by the FCC; but P-25 digital and encryption are not. Many places are already using the new narrow band analog radios and you can't tell the difference most of the time, cuz it sounds just like any FM transceiver...

 

[PJH]

NARROW-BANDING is required by the FCC; but P-25 digital and encryption are not. Many places are already using the new narrow band analog radios and you can't tell the difference most of the time, cuz it sounds just like any FM transceiver...

P25 and encyption are not part of narrowbanding...which is correct (obviously).

However, to quailify for most (if not all grants) these days for commuications, the radios themselves must be capable of P25 operation. This does not mean that the radio must come with the P25 option, but that you can upgrade it down the road.

Typically, the radio's are ordered with it anyways, because...why not?

Two-way encryption available to the general market (including your local cops) has been around since the 70's. The reason why you didn't see encyption often was due to cost, and the the voice quaility.

With the advent of digital voice, the encyption module now just encodes the digital data instead of doing the analog to digital conversion and encypting it. Because of this, your not losing any voice quaility than P25 in the clear. In addition, the cost of encyption itself has come down in price.

Your also looking at a smarter criminal. They buy scanners (always have) and with "great" features as Close call...if the cops are not using Nextel or cellphones, guess who they are going to hear should a survellence or other operations is nearby?

As I have experience in said field, the general public can be a help, or a hinderance in listening to scanners. For the most part, its a hinderance as 99% of the people listening actually have no clue what is going on. Although they may be hearing the back/forth, there are so many other forms of communications happening (MDT, cell, text pagers, etc) that people draw conclutions on less than full facts. This is when the scanner masterbators start to call police with "tips" that are not even realvant to calling friends or news stations with incomplete/incorrect information.

----

Now, if your not using the proper scanner, or not with proper settings, there is a difference in listening to 25/30 voice and 12.5k voice.

 

[cousinkix1953]

Two-way encryption available to the general market (including your local cops) has been around since the 70's. The reason why you didn't see encyption often was due to cost, and the the voice quaility.

I've been playing with these scaners since the 70s. I haven't forgotten companies like Don Nobles Enterprises and Krystal Kits Electronnics. They used to sell plug in analog voice descramblers that sounded a lot like using a SSB CB radio with the clarifier slightly out of tune. You don't see these any more because they are obsolete and illegal under the ECPA of 1986

Your also looking at a smarter criminal. They buy scanners (always have) and with "great" features as Close call...if the cops are not using Nextel or cellphones, guess who they are going to hear should a survellence or other operations is nearby?

Funny thing, that criminals are rarely charged with committing a federal offense; when caught using a scanner in the commission of another crime. It reminds me of them not enforcing certain gun laws either; but these fools can't get enough of enacting more rules just for the hell of it.

Our local police use their cellular phones as a tactical frequency all of the time. I used to hear them on a Pro 2006, when we still had those analog phones. I don't phone in a lot of needless tips either and used to stick with the REACT related emergency calls.

Mobile data isn't fool proof either; but a terminal that connect to a modified scanner is hundreds of $$$ just to start with a cheapie. Fortunately most of these criminals aren't radio technicians and don't subscribe to a certain magazine which has been on the newsracks since October 1982...[/quote]

 

[PJH]

Funny thing, that criminals are rarely charged with committing a federal offense.

Not sure what federal law would would apply, but most states have laws concerning this...and if your caught with such. The SSB stuff your referencing was the old school voice inversion. Still legal to use if your emissions type if accurate for the station license. Transcypt still sells the addon board. For the most part ineffective, but inexpensive for the users that want something basic and not mission critical. These days, you can buy used DVP/DES and even AES boards for $200 or so. All my personal radios are DES-OFB/AES-256 equipped.

Mobile data isn't fool proof either; but a terminal that connect to a modified scanner is hundreds of $$$ just to start with a cheapie. Fortunately most of these criminals aren't radio technicians and don't subscribe to a certain magazine which has been on the newsracks since October 1982...

99% of all MDT's today (and for some time now) use a celluar or dedicated TRS connection which is very secure. The days of using MDTMon for those systems are well over. There are less than a handful of these systems still around, even if that.

 

[p71ford]

Well, has anyone new info on bpd switch to digital, likes hows to $$$pay for it?
kinda crapy ways to waste 1/2 a mill EACH for some digi stuff.
ever heards of nextell or CELLULAR /SAT phones????

 

[PJH]

"likes hows to $$$pay for it"

Easy. Its included in most budgets as part of equipment replacement cycles or a thru a city bond (via) taxes as everything else is paid for. No different if you need a major road project. Like radio or any other consumable item that you, I, or a city agency needs...its need to be replaced/repaired every so often. If that wasn't true, Old Bakersfield would still have dirt streets and hitching posts for the horses (until the horses get tagged).

"kinda crapy ways to waste 1/2 a mill EACH for some digi stuff."

$500,000 each for WHAT?

As I have been involved in purchasing said equipment, I know that price tag isn't anywhere NEAR that for ANY one single piece of equipment.

"ever heards of nextell"

And have you ever tried to communicate someone in the clear with the crappy 6:1 channel slots that Nextel uses in some markets? How would officers communicate fleetwide with each other, and the dispatcher at the same time? What about system loading with the rest of Sprint/Nextel users/customers?

"CELLULAR"

See above, and it would be even less effective

"SAT phones????"

Add both above, and then figure on over $1/min plus latency time in the transmission...and better hope that your not in a building and need to call for help...because it will not work