Baofeng Baofeng uv-5r

[paulears]

In ham radio, the case is NEVER closed. I smiled with the notion that it works this way.

I am a bit surprised at the notion that there are genuine and non genuine Baofengs. Remember that official Baofeng store or Retevis store is not. Baofeng is a brand in the same style as Diamond. A concept, perhaps some custom tooling for the clever bits, but it’s not a real make or brand. That is not how these things work in a China. There are at least three separate Boafengs. They all make the same products, using standard components. It’s a bit like the old Roadrunner cartoon with all the products being labelled Acme. We now have identical radios on sale from four or five brands, but they’re not the same at all. They share common housings, pcbs, displays, but the brackets, mics, even DC cables might be different, and each ‘name’ has variations of the same software. With the chip shortage, one brand might change the pcb design to use a different chip, but another might have ten thousand of the old design on the shelves. Remember the Baofeng DMR radios that nobody could program? A make, a model sticker and clearly something different inside. People contacted Baofeng to ask and they hadn’t a clue, despite their name on them. We think of makes like American and European brands and they are not. Buy a pcb from Baofeng, and you can stick Baofeng on it! When the US put the new rules on Baofeng radios, I asked Baofeng Official if the ones I was buying were US or UK versions? The answer was yes! They had no idea there were now two different products.

This topic suggests a new ham who’s a little unsure on range, power, topography, gain, repeater operation and stuff like that. People have been gently trying to get across that all questions like this get a ‘depends’ answer, and it get misconstrued as unhelpful news or deliberate awkwardness, when we hear it all the time. “Hitting” a repeater is always a term that rings so many alarm bells, so people switch to newbie mode.

with most handhelds, Baofeng included, if you can hear it, you can work it is a pretty good maxim.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Here is a simple calculation most hams do not know an is relevant. Assume the earth is round (no hills or obstructions) If your antenna height is h (in feet), then the range (in miles) to your radio horizon is 1.4*square_root(h). For a handheld radio with a short whip and let's say someone 5.5 ft tall or so, this will be about 1.4*square_root(5.5)=3.28 miles. Now for the second station, one does the same calculation using its antenna height and add the results. If it also were a similar station, we get 3.28+3.28= 6.56 miles. Increased power will not help as you are still not going to pass through earth and realistically, the range will be less due to obstructions like hills and buildings. If the second station had an antenna at 100 ft, we then have 3.28+1.4*square_root(100)= 17.28 miles with the same assumptions and caveats. So if terrain were right, you might get that range. Height of antennas is much much (do I need say it again) more important than power and power will not generally overcome that. I regularly hear weather balloons (running 70 milliwatts) at over 50 miles (but their antenna is then up to 100000 feet) and people often receive satellites much farther way with just 5 watts. Generally, on VHF/UHF, antenna height is of upmost importance for determining range with power a distant second and only in regard to passing through foilage (trees/bushes) an buildings. 8 W generally buys you little over 5 W in that regard.

 

[paulears]

I spend a lot of my time with marine newcomers, and often fail miserably to convince them that in their Kayak, 2ft above the water, power is almost irrelevant as the horizon is so close. I MUST have a 10W radio, for safety - the extra 6W over an alternative, and usually cheaper radio is just a bit pointless - but Watts = distance in many people's heads. Newcomers to radio in the hobby, business or other fields make so many assumptions based on common sense. The hams with the exams do at least need to learn the basics.

 

[W8HDU]

@W8HDU It’s not legal on ham bands, but it’s not legal on gmrs, frs, or murs either. So unless you’re using it on IG pool, you’re risking a fine. If you are using it on commercial channels, great, just not very secure compared to real encryption. Just providing information, not admonishing…

I'm sure you looked up my license before commenting, otherwise the information was unwarranted.

 

[paulears]

Comments about a 5R ‘reaching the same distance’ as a high end radio are a bit misleading… if you happen to get a good one, maybe, but with over 80% of them failing to meet FCC specifications for spurious emissions (based on ARRL testing), I would say that a 5R could do the same job as a higher end radio, but most probably do not. that’s the thing with cheap products… some of them work better than others simply due to component tolerances and quality control standards.

Reminds me of an old video talking about Behringer pro audio equipment… “This here is the Behringer ADA8000. You gotta buy three or four to get one that works right, but once you have a good one, it’s the best converter for the money!”

-B

Not sure how misleading it is? A radio with terrible spurious emissions still has the ability to 'travel' - sure the sproggies are uncontrolled, but that's rarely a real issue. Here, we simply put in our licence conditions that it is the amateurs responsibility to prevent spurious out of band emissions. We could simply slap a filter on the worst performing radio and legally operate it. Strange that hams in the US are not granted the same responsibility? The UK have always placed the onus on the operator, and it's worked very well for us. We have standards that equipment in the business, ham and marine service must meet - but it is not type approval in the old sense. We can bring in a Chinese radios and if it is a poor one, and we cause interference to a protected service, we can be prosecuted and perhaps have a licence removed in a serious case. Very rarely does this happen. The US system seems to work on the principle that hams can't police themselves?

The Behringer example is now well out of date. They've been doing extended warranties for a long time now, and the 1990s unreliability is long gone. In fairness, Baofengs are not unreliable, but what do we expect from a radio that costs less than taking my grandkids to McDonalds!

 

[AK9R]

We could simply slap a filter on the worst performing radio and legally operate it. Strange that hams in the US are not granted the same responsibility?

Hams in the U.S. could use filters and make these non-compliant radios compliant with the rules. We do have that responsibility per the rules. Take note of the wording of 47 CFR 97.307(b) and (c):

 

[paulears]

I'm confused now? I thought (from posts here and elsewhere) that the Baofengs were totally banned from import and sales as they are not compliant - your wording is pretty similar to ours. So a simple filter could make use of the existing rest of the world versions of the radio OK, or is their wide TX range the issue? I think I may have got the spurious emission issues mixed up with the wide band TX/RX?

 

[mmckenna]

Here, we simply put in our licence conditions that it is the amateurs responsibility to prevent spurious out of band emissions. We could simply slap a filter on the worst performing radio and legally operate it. Strange that hams in the US are not granted the same responsibility? The UK have always placed the onus on the operator, and it's worked very well for us. We have standards that equipment in the business, ham and marine service must meet - but it is not type approval in the old sense. We can bring in a Chinese radios and if it is a poor one, and we cause interference to a protected service, we can be prosecuted and perhaps have a licence removed in a serious case. Very rarely does this happen. The US system seems to work on the principle that hams can't police themselves?

As AK9R pointed out, we have similar rules.
There seems to be some differences, however, in the individuals using said radios, as I'm sure you've noticed on some of these threads:
1. Hams/hobbyists that won't read the rules or don't care about the rules. They feel they can do whatever they want since they assume that it's not hurting anyone else. There's a small (but annoying) segment of the amateur radio license holders that think there are zero limitations on what they can do with their ham licenses, including (but not limited to) using ham radio equipment on local public safety agencies. Some hams have been busted for this. Finding a ham that has actually read and understood the rules is getting to be pretty rare, even though it is a requirement. They prefer to take rumors from the internet as gospel truth.
2. Hams/hobbyists that don't really understand radio. They passed the test, regurgitated the multiple choice answers, and yet didn't seem to learn anything from it.
3. Hams/hobbyists that don't have a large budget to spend on radios and will choose one of these lower cost radios without understanding the issues with them.

Hams should know better. Some do, some don't, some are very confused and stuck in the middle between these two groups. The FCC makes it clear, but there's always that small group of people that assume the rules do not apply to them.

I'm willing to bet the UK has a few of these individuals. Seems like maybe it is dealt with a bit swifter on your side of the Atlantic, maybe not.

I'm confused now? I thought (from posts here and elsewhere) that the Baofengs were totally banned from import and sales as they are not compliant - your wording is pretty similar to ours. So a simple filter could make use of the existing rest of the world versions of the radio OK, or is their wide TX range the issue? I think I may have got the spurious emission issues mixed up with the wide band TX/RX?

There's a couple of things going on here.

For all transmitters but amateur, the FCC has standards they must meet. If the radio does not meet the standards, and does not have the proper certifications proving it does, the cannot be legally used to transmit.

Amateur radios do not require the certifications on their transmitters.

The problems:
1. A lot of the low buck Chinese "amateur" radios are easy to modify via keypresses or software to open them up to work where they are not legal. As mentioned above, some hams assume the rules do not apply to them and will modify the radios to do what they want. Some have no knowledge of the rules and will do it "just in case" (see the failure that was the ARRL "When All Else Fails" mess.)
2. Some want one radio to do absolutely everything and have full access to all the radio spectrum. This is easily done with some of the Chinese radios, and a lot of the higher tier amateur radios. They may or may not understand the rules regarding this, but none the less ignore it. The way the rules are set up is that it is not illegal to modify the radio, it's only illegal to transmit with it. Assumptions are that they'll never get caught, or that they assume their amateur radio license gives them access to everything.

Really it comes down to personal responsibility and learning/understanding the rules. Doesn't seem like that is a thing that is taken seriously anymore.

 

[KE2BJW]

this went way off topic so case closed

 

[paulears]

Actually - not it didn't. Your question was about hitting the repeater - we explained it pretty well, and the other comments surely must have been useful for a newly qualified ham? I certainly learned some stuff and I've been licensed 43 years!

 

[wtp]

Jason, if/when you get the radio, just use it to listen to the repeater.
that is unless you already have. some develop their own talk subjects and might not like a different one.
so keep an ear on it to get what they want to talk about.
when i was living in New Jersey there was one group in the morning that only talked about traffic, not radio traffic, road traffic.
another one liked weather.

 

[Bob1955]

I may just save and get the anytone 878 that should be way better then the baofeng and it's in mid range of what I can afford and it probably would sound better and it would not have a problem hiting my repeater

Jason- ONLY purchase from Baofeg Tech directly. The UV-82HP ($64.95) (Comes in different colors too) as that is the ONLY outfit that gives you a 1-year warranty. On Amazon, its 3rd party seller at $69.95 for the same transceiver. Trust me and also, the Baofeng UV-5R has a crappy front end and VERY low audio as the other one is 1 watt of audio output compared to 700 milliwatt's. IF you "MUST" purchase Baofeng. And if I were you, I would save your $$$ and call Ham Radio Outlet and purchase a Yaesu FT-65R (VHF/UHF) as it is "NIGHT and DAY" quality-wise. Also, I'm only a novice and have NO time for HAM radio but know my products very well as my building landlord's son purchased a Baofeng UV-5R just to hear the local police/fire in my village that I programmed in for him years ago with receive ONLY. The radio is a JOKE!
Stay safe.

Bob

 

[KE2BJW]

Well here is the thing I can't afford a big radio right now so baofeng,is my only option right now, in less someone wanna just send me a radio there not using anymore,other wise my only option at this point is baofeng, cause I do not have anything else for a starter radio so
if someone wanna send a Yaesu, then if people say baofengs are so bad but if i got that at least it's something.

 

[MTS2000des]

It's not that they are bad, they are just low quality, poor performing radios that have muddy and low transmit audio, which may result in people ignoring you because they can't hear or understand clearly what you say when transmitting. The receivers will overload from out of band sources such as wireless routers, LED lightning, basically anything near field emitting strong RF, making it difficult for you to hear what otherwise would come in clean and clear on a "real" radio with a proper front end. Scan is anemic, and if you use CTCSS/DCS decode, it may not stop on active channels.

 

[KE2BJW]

How about this Radio it's on the pricey side but a better radio​

Yaesu Original FT-65 FT-65R 144/440 Dual-Band Rugged & Compact Handheld Transceiver, 5W - 3 Year Warranty​

 

[dkcorlfla]

Something not mentioned on this post is that a new ham on a tight budget might want to consider a SDR just to listen to all the repeaters in range and learn before buying a transceiver.

Guess it depends a lot on how much you do or do not like computers.

There is nothing out there that will come close to the bang for the buck as a SDR dongle for receiving and learning.

I have four SDRs with the SDRplay being my best and even the cheap ones are a blast to play around with. I never get tired of taking a look with the wide waterfall display and finding stuff and learning.

 

[KK4JUG]

It's not that they are bad, they are just low quality, poor performing radios that have muddy and low transmit audio, which may result in people ignoring you because they can't hear or understand clearly what you say when transmitting. The receivers will overload from out of band sources such as wireless routers, LED lightning, basically anything near field emitting strong RF, making it difficult for you to hear what otherwise would come in clean and clear on a "real" radio with a proper front end. Scan is anemic, and if you use CTCSS/DCS decode, it may not stop on active channels.

In terms of ham radios, I think that would qualify as "bad." That's an awful low of red flags to me.

 

[N4KVE]

How about this Radio it's on the pricey side but a better radio​

Yaesu Original FT-65 FT-65R 144/440 Dual-Band Rugged & Compact Handheld Transceiver, 5W - 3 Year Warranty​

Pricey? You should have been around when dualband HT’s were first released. $500 for the radio. $65 for the PL board. $65 fast charger, & $75 for a battery because the stock battery would last 10 minutes. I see the FT65 at $110, so to me, that’s practically free by comparison.

 

[paulears]

I have to smile - When I bought my first Icom radio - decent quality (well made and still working) it was 1979. It had a dial up frequency on knobs, covered 144 to 146MHz and cost £220 - which was at the time TEN WEEKS wages.

Baofeng radios might have poor filtering, a bit muffled audio but zillions of features and the cost is almost irrelevant. Ordering in a pizza each for two people can easily cost the same as the radio. If you buy a 'quality' one - like the Yaesu mentioned - it's more money, but still very cheap. Baofengs are cheap, less rugged, less stable, more easily broken, perhaps more confusing even - but in value for money terms they are a sure winner. I've said it before. if you live in a rural area, most of the deficiencies will pass unnoticed. In busy urban areas then they're compromised - but they still work!

If you genuinely have no money - at least there is a radio you can buy and use without having to save up for weeks to buy!

 

[sallen07]

Yaesu Original FT-65 FT-65R 144/440 Dual-Band Rugged & Compact Handheld Transceiver, 5W -

Any of these would be a good choice:

Yaesu FT-65R
Yaesu FT-4XR
Alinco DJ-VX50T

Yes, they are more than $25 or $30, but as the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".