BCD325P2/BCD996P2: BCD996P2 ISSUE

[B_sch1167]

Hi everyone,
I am going to try and explain what is happening with my Uniden BCD996P2 scanner. I live in Rochester, New York, and I am trying to listen to the RPD in my area. While I hold on the dispatch channel and I put the error rate on auto, the scanner is running error rates up around 32, sometimes 62. So the scanner only allows you to set the er rate as high as 13. When I manually set it to 13 I can hear the transmissions, but they are not clear, and a lot of the times the squelch is not opening up to let the transmission through. Is there some thing someone out there that can let me know what I should do in order to get the scanner to run properly and let channels through nice and clear?

I have tried using the stock antenna, as well as my roof top antenna with this preamp in the picture attached and I am getting the same results.

Thanks
Bill

 

[10-43]

The RRDB shows the Monroe/Ontario P25 Phase 2 system sites are all simulcast. You are experiencing simulcast distortion.

An antenna with higher gain will.make it worse. The wiki article below explains the issue. I can get a fairly decent reception using the stock antenna on my Home Patrol 2 with it laying horizontal to the closest site to me.

The only way to fix this is with the Uniden SDS100, SDS200, a Unication paging receiver or the Bluetail tech P25 receiver. I have an SDS100 and it works far better.

Simulcast Distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[jeff]

Set your P25 Threshold to 7 or 8 and your squelch to 2.

 

[tvengr]

Try using the back of scanner antenna and turning on the attenuator. When dealing with simulcast sites, less signal is more. Squelch is normally set at 2. Try opening the squelch to see if it scans the trunked system any better. Turn off the digital audio AGC. The AGC action can increase garbled audio problems with simulcast sites. Try all of the manual settings for the P25 Threshold. Often, it works better with lower values. You may need to increase the site hold times to 2 seconds or more. Please attach your programming file for the Monroe County trunked system so we can take a look at it. You will need to zip the file to be able to attach it. Click on Attach files and open the zipped file.

 

[buddrousa]

Post #2 is the best answer.
Also the PREAMP is not your friend it raises the noise floor also and multiplies and distorts digital signals also with the SIMULCAST it mixes other sites which makes things even worse.

 

[tvengr]

Post #2 is the best answer.

I agree! The SDS100 and SDS200 are specifically designed to receive simulcast sites. All of my suggestions are merely workarounds to try to minimize the problems. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't. My BCD996P2 is useless on my local simulcast system.

 

[buddrousa]

The big no no is the PREAMP I see connected to the scanner.

 

[10-43]

Your best option trying to use the BCD996P2 is using only the supplied antenna and shorten to minimum length, then try positioning that antenna using the swivel on it to lay horizontal and positioned broadside to the nearest repeater site in the system. Also with that antenna try using the signal attenuator in the scanner. However, there are so many simulcast sites in that system you will probably have a hard time getting just one to have the strongest signal without the others causing a problem. You might even try a very short piece of wire inserted into the BNC center pin. Maybe just one inch long. A quarter wave antenna element for these frequencies is only about 3.5 inches. A shorter element will lower the signal into the scanner. The idea is to try and receive most of the signal from just one site. Then try the other posted suggestions. If you are not scanning conventional systems without CTCSS or DCS tone squelch, set the squelch control to 0. I see there are multiple simulcast site groups for that system. Program only the one closest to you.

Unfortunately this will be frustrating. There is nothing wrong with the BCD996P2. I have one, and it is a great performer. Unfortunately, trucked radio systems started doing simulcast sites to conserve radio spectrum. This required Uniden to produce the newer SDS100 and SDS200 to handle it.

 

[Ronaldski]

Yes remove preamp, outside antenna. In simulcast... less antenna is more.
depending on your location and the tower locations, try as mentioned above turning on the attenuator option on the site and increasing the squelch.
Also try with combination of the above or by itself.

See

Also see

They mention using a cookie sheet, paperclip antenna.

It will be trial and error for sure.

 

[Ubbe]

Is there some thing someone out there that can let me know what I should do in order to get the scanner to run properly and let channels through nice and clear?

It is that simulcast issue that are the problem but you can use the amplifier you have to try and solve it. What is needed are to only receive enough signal so it is just one site that the scanner receives. If two sites that transmit on the same frequency have the same signal strength in the scanner then it will not work and you will need to use a directional antenna to get more signal from a single site, maybe screening off certain directions with som metal object can also help.

All sites for that system will transmit on the same frequency so you only need to have one site programmed.
Make a hold on the site and enable the attenuator for it.

Now use your amplifier and set it to its lowest gain and you would probably not receive any signal. Make a channel hold and enter the control channel frequency and push channel hold again. Set squelch to 0 and you should hear only noise and the signal bars indicate no signal.

Now turn up the gain on the amplifier until you start to receive a signal. One signal bar should indicate and probably two until you clearly hear the data signal. Experiment with the threshold setting from lowest to highest value and it should mute the noise and switch over to digital mode. Try and get the lowest bit error value. If it doesn't switch to digital then increase gain slightly until another signal bar comes on and try different thresholds again.

Experiment with gain and threshold to find the best settings. For other systems you do not use their attenuator settings and should be received more or less normally depending of what amplifier gain setting you end up with.

When there are problem with reception it can help with a longer hold time for a site and a longer delay time for the TG's as a small interruption of the signal might make the scanner to continue scan. If you only receive digital systems and analog that always use CTCSS/DCS you can set the squelch to 0 as if a distorted signal makes the squelch close it will automatically cease to decode the digital data. But scan rate will slow down to something like 4ch/s when the squelch are set to 0.

Audio AGC are not simulcast related and only affects the audio level after the data decode to balance the level and smooth out peaks and dips in the audio, so keep that enabled.

/Ubbe

 

[sallen07]

I live in Rochester, New York, and I am trying to listen to the RPD in my area.
When I manually set it to 13 I can hear the transmissions, but they are not clear, and a lot of the times the squelch is not opening up to let the transmission through. Is there some thing someone out there that can let me know what I should do in order to get the scanner to run properly and let channels through nice and clear?

As others have stated, what you are experiencing is simulcast distortion, which the BCD992P2 handles poorly if at all.

Honestly you are lucky to be able to hear ANYTHING from the Monroe County system using that scanner. At my location on the west side of the county the BCD992P2 and BCD325P2 just do not work at all on the trunking system.

The best long-term solution is to get an SDS100 or SDS200. They both work great in Monroe County. Unfortunately that's a rather expensive solution.

BUT ... there is a short term solution that is totally free. If RPD is what you are interested in, then listen to them on the UHF P25 conventional frequencies instead. Most of the law enforcement traffic in Monroe County is still linked from the TRS to the "old" channels for interoperability purposes. I say this is a short term solution because that is likely to change some day and the old UHF frequencies will be retired ... but that day is not today.

Monroe County, New York (NY) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for Monroe County, New York (NY)

www.radioreference.com

Scroll down to "Rochester". The P25 conventional frequencies are at the top of the list. If you want to listen to the county and town police agencies those frequencies are listed at the top of that page (under "Law Enforcement").

Good luck.

 

[B_sch1167]

Yes remove preamp, outside antenna. In simulcast... less antenna is more.
depending on your location and the tower locations, try as mentioned above turning on the attenuator option on the site and increasing the squelch.
Also try with combination of the above or by itself.

See

Also see

They mention using a cookie sheet, paperclip antenna.

It will be trial and error for sure.

Great videos! THANK YOU!

 

[B_sch1167]

So in upgrading my Uniden BCD996XT I did a lot of research, but I probably should have asked more questions regarding what my area of the United States is using as far as listening to the local police first. I may upgrade my scanner, but I have too many projects going around the house right now, and the wife would kill me if I spent the money on a new scanner ri now. So I’m going to do the best I can with all the advice and my Uniden BCD 996P2 scanner.
This forum has to be the best think tank I have ever seen. There are so many knowledgeable individuals out there that are willing to help people like myself.

Thank you all for your great advice.
Bill
Rochester NY

 

[tvengr]

Audio AGC are not simulcast related and only affects the audio level after the data decode to balance the level and smooth out peaks and dips in the audio, so keep that enabled.

Paul (Upman), the former Uniden rep, said to turn off digital audio AGC to reduce garbled audio problems when dealing with simulcast sites.

 

[10-43]

So in upgrading my Uniden BCD996XT I did a lot of research, but I probably should have asked more questions regarding what my area of the United States is using as far as listening to the local police first. I may upgrade my scanner, but I have too many projects going around the house right now, and the wife would kill me if I spent the money on a new scanner ri now. So I’m going to do the best I can with all the advice and my Uniden BCD 996P2 scanner.
This forum has to be the best think tank I have ever seen. There are so many knowledgeable individuals out there that are willing to help people like myself.



Thank you all for your great advice.
Bill
Rochester NY

Hold onto that BCD996P2. It is one of the best scanners I have ever owned. While the SDS100/200 is superior receiving simulcast systems, the BCD996P2 beats the SDS scanners in all other monitoring. Way better with conventional systems and better with non-simulcast trunked systems.

For monitoring civilian and military aircraft frequencies its hard to beat. It performs quite well for aviation. It has all the frequency ranges, modulation modes and channel steps needed for this.

It also works very well monitoring VHF Marine. Since it can receive P25, you can monitor the Coast Guard LMR channels on VHF and UHF. They do encrypt there, but not always. I monitor the CG LMR channels while in Florida. There are also other federal P25 channels you may be able to monitor. I monitor the US park service on the Blue Ridge Parkway and in the Great Smokey Mountains National Park.

I depend om my SDS100 for simulcast systems, but depend on my BCD996P2 and Home Patrol 2 for everything else.

I have a BCD325P2 as a portable option to the BCD996P2. It performs nearly as well, but the battery life stinks.

 

[Ubbe]

Paul (Upman), the former Uniden rep, said to turn off digital audio AGC to reduce garbled audio problems when dealing with simulcast sites.

I cannot find that statement when searching the forum. Perhaps it was mentioned in relation to something else.
What I do find from Upman are:

"AGC will help to balance the audio levels somewhat between properly programmed channels. It won't help reception or digital decoding. AGC use is really a personal preference...not something you can get much specific advice on."

"The other settings you mention are for AGC and have nothing to do with P25 decoding...(I mention this because I often see people suggest to mess with these settings in order to improve P25 performance; the primary way to improve P25 performance is to improve reception.)"

/Ubbe

 

[B_sch1167]

I currently have this antenna that has been sitting around for some time in my basement. Would this antenna improve or take away from simulcast transmission? If not i will sell it for what ever I can get for it.

 

[Ubbe]

I currently have this antenna that has been sitting around for some time in my basement. Would this antenna improve or take away from simulcast transmission? If not i will sell it for what ever I can get for it.

Connect it to your scanner using a coax, you probably need an adapter to fit to your scanner, and listen to that simulcast system and point the antenna in different directions to see if you can improve reception. It usually takes 2-3 sec until a difference will be heard so don't change directions too quickly. If you have great success then find a more convenient place for the antenna and find a direction that will work.

One problem will be that all other things you listen to will be degraded using a direction sensitive and frequency limited antenna.
The signal strength might be too high with this antenna and your scanner could receive several sites, then use your amplifier that has a variable setting from -20dB to +20dB gain to set it to where you barely receive just one site. Remember then to enable the attenuator for that simulcast system and other systems will then be received better without attenuation.

/Ubbe

 

[tvengr]

I cannot find that statement when searching the forum. Perhaps it was mentioned in relation to something else.
What I do find from Upman are:

I unable to find the thread either. It may have been removed due to no posts for a period of time. I stopped turning on digital AGC on systems with simulcast sites ever since I read it. Paul said that the AGC action can increase garbled audio problems.

 

[Ubbe]

I didn't knew that they removed old posts from Upman. Then valuable advice from him on different topics will be lost. That's a pity as it would had been good to have such reference material still in the radio reference forum.

Maybe Upmans post where misinterpreted or he forgot to type a word or similar so that the meaning of what he ment to say where lost. When you get a bad digital decode it often generate beeps and bursts of noise that are louder than the actual audio of the voice. So if anything, having the AGC enabled would help to smooth out those noise bursts. As Upman mentions in several of his posts, the AGC have nothing to do with the decoding of a digital signal, it's applied when all processing are done and you have the finished product of an analog audio.

/Ubbe