Bell Fleetnet Zone 2 Submissions

[101]

TO all of you submitting talkgroups to the database for Zone 2 Fleetnet. Please try to not jump the gun and submit a talkgroup without properly identifying such things as the patrol area and perhaps check if it corresponds with the original NOR system detachment number from before and the new Alpha character. If you submit before checking to make sure that a talkgroup is not patched, multiselected or using a temporary talkgroup you are causing some grief for all of us who have spent many hours making sure the correct information gets passed to the end user. I always check trunker, treport and use the scanner and then listen for a radio call for locations and proper talkgroup identification. Just because you are hearing a unit of a particular callsign does not necessarily mean that is its talkgroup. Zone 2 still has many bugs to work out. Im sure Talkgroups will change very soon again.

Thanks all and keep up the good work!

Sean Campbellford

 

[DaveH]

Sean,

Good advice all around although I'm not tracking these things
too closely myself at the moment.

Somebody most likely without Trunker/Treport and any trunking
capability is doing some guessing on voice channels; obviously not
you or the dude from the Perth area who are holding things up well.
Some just look like Hydro-Quebec or maybe conventional APCO-25 from
some municipal system. The bogus channels will eventually get
cleared out, but it's a minor annoyance.

On a side topic, I picked up an old BC142XL at a flea market
for $8, working perfectly. It looks good for a dicriminator tap,
which would likely double its value (!). Maybe I'll sell it to someone
east of me, or in the north part of Zone 2 who has $10 to spend on
parts for a data slicer.

Dave

 

[mikewazowski]

Yup, the talkgroup list really needs some tlc from somebody with trunker/treport and a digital scanner. Last time I checked there were some duplicate talkgroups listed for various detachments.

I believe with the latest addition of Russell County to the database, the switchover must almost be complete. Anybody still hearing units still being dispatched on the NOR system?

I think once you see everybody switched over, detachments will start migrating to their proper talkgroups.

London and Orillia Comm Centres have one talkgroup per detachment and usually patch/multiselect two detachments together. I would suspect that Smith Falls will operate the same way.

There are a bunch of unused 2OPS talkgroups which I suspect will become populated very soon.

 

[OntarioScannerNut]

I was told that 2Ops05 I think it was, was a second tg for Grenville Detachment.

Also was told that Ottawa should be goin either next week or the week after. But Last weekend while over in Quebec, I was still able to hear Ottawa Comm. Centre on 141.435, 141.69 and 141.555.

Tone Markers are still squawking away on those.

Yup, the talkgroup list really needs some tlc from somebody with trunker/treport and a digital scanner. Last time I checked there were some duplicate talkgroups listed for various detachments.

I believe with the latest addition of Russell County to the database, the switchover must almost be complete. Anybody still hearing units still being dispatched on the NOR system?

I think once you see everybody switched over, detachments will start migrating to their proper talkgroups.

London and Orillia Comm Centres have one talkgroup per detachment and usually patch/multiselect two detachments together. I would suspect that Smith Falls will operate the same way.

There are a bunch of unused 2OPS talkgroups which I suspect will become populated very soon.

 

[mikewazowski]

I doubt it's a second talkgroup but it's possibly the proper talkgroup they will switch to once everybody else has moved over.

 

[bpsmicro]

I added the Russell County TG myself, and I'm 99% sure there was no patching or multi-selecting going on, since I've *only* be hearing Russell units on that TG. I never heard them on the old system, so I can't confirm the alphatag shows up, but I *am* hearing 3Echo units being dispatched to addresses in the Russell area (I pull out the old map book to check).

I don't have Tracker/TReport (I'm disinclined to take apart my brand new BC796D to dink with discriminator taps, which I believe would be required). If I'm wrong on that, a pointer to an "newby's guide to setting up Trunker" would be useful.

Right now I'm running the freeware IDTracker http://personal.bellsouth.net/~kd5eis/IDTracker/IDTracker.htm as a quick'n'dirty logger. I'm cross-referencing to note which TGs appear on which towers in my area, so that eventually I can scan the minuimum number of towers to get what I'm specifically interested in.

I'd tend to believe that TGs 8800 and 8816 will need to be broken up more. Right now those two TGs cover an *awful* lot of territory. And the list shows the Ottawa Traffic (3Kilo?) units on TG 8800, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me (and I've heard/logged nothing to indicate that's true).

Right now, Ottawa Traffic is still on NOR Group 2 (or Tower 2 if you prefer), and I haven't heard anything related to Hawkesbury yet. I *think* that's it.

 

[mikewazowski]

I'd tend to believe that TGs 8800 and 8816 will need to be broken up more. Right now those two TGs cover an *awful* lot of territory. And the list shows the Ottawa Traffic (3Kilo?) units on TG 8800, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me (and I've heard/logged nothing to indicate that's true).

Right now, Ottawa Traffic is still on NOR Group 2 (or Tower 2 if you prefer), and I haven't heard anything related to Hawkesbury yet. I *think* that's it.

I think you're right about everything being broken up more. I believe that once everybody has switched over, you will see the one detachment per talkgroup system that Zone 1 is using.

Let us know when the dispatching has stopped on the NOR system. You will probably see things starting to move then.

 

[get_a_radio]

I was suprised to see detachments sharing talk groups, and particularly the way they paired them up...

For instance, Kawartha Lakes is paired with Cobourg, yet the detachment areas don't directly adjoin each other as Whitby detachment/durham region sit in between.

These large talk groups are an incredible waste of trunking capacity. Every traffic stop/call on the 401 with the cobourg detachment is carried on the fenelon tower which is about 80 Km from cobourg and ffer no cverae benefit.

It would make alot more sense for each detachment to have its own talk group.

Once they get Ambulance and MTO on the system, and get a busy winter day (sanders and snowplows) and a few fender benders (Ambulances and OPP) we'll see how busy the system gets and if they designed the talk groups and number of repeaters properly...

I suspect that OPP and Ambulance have priority over MTO.

 

[bigfrank459]

i have recently heard opp dispatched in north ontario on the old system but i think the cars have repeaters built into them

 

[DaveH]

I don't have Tracker/TReport (I'm disinclined to take apart my brand new BC796D to dink with discriminator taps, which I believe would be required). If I'm wrong on that, a pointer to an "newby's guide to setting up Trunker" would be useful.

It's a waste of expensive capability to use a trunking-capable scanner (esp. digital) for a data slicer receiver, not to mention voiding the warrantee and risking possible damage. If you have another older, less-capable scanner, consider adapting it, or consider getting one (cheap, if you look around).

The 2-level data slicer is a one-op-amp circuit powered from the RS232 port. There are variations on the design but the link below is the one I built. If you're not into building, they can be purchased (don't know specific sources, but one Ottawa local reported buying one for $30 several years back). One day in July 1998, after supper I started building one; due to my wanting to make a neat wiring job, plus a few minor errors, and getting the software running, I was tracking the Ottawa EDACS system by midnight. The slicer is good for EDACS, Motorola 3600-baud systems, certain other types of radio data.

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=8

I built the first one shown. A TL081 op-amp may be used. Best $5 I ever spent!

Here is where to download software:

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=3

LTR can be monitored with this slicer but it really needs a lowpass filter for actual tracking (more accurate decoding), using free Ltrtrunk software. Ltrunk gives basic frame decoding. Bill Petrowsky's website has some interesting circuits and other info:

http://home.hvc.rr.com/bpetrow/


Dave

 

[mikewazowski]

I don't have Tracker/TReport (I'm disinclined to take apart my brand new BC796D to dink with discriminator taps, which I believe would be required). If I'm wrong on that, a pointer to an "newby's guide to setting up Trunker" would be useful.

The later Uniden scanners have a data slicer point that you can tap which don't require the op-amp slicer. Just wire it to a jack on the back and then put together a cable to go into your computer.

If you can pick up a used 780, it will work great.

 

[DaveH]

The later Uniden scanners have a data slicer point that you can tap which don't require the op-amp slicer. Just wire it to a jack on the back and then put together a cable to go into your computer.

If you can pick up a used 780, it will work great.

Right, but isn't that point TTL-level (if memory serves) that still
requires a TTL to RS232 level conversion? (albeit only on one
line).

There's also an LTR data tap point (filtered data) in the 780
somewhere.

Dave

 

[mikewazowski]

I've used the data slicer points on a 235, 780 and 785 without any level conversions.

 

[bpsmicro]

Thanks for the comments. I have a Pro-60, a BC780 and BC796D in active service. The Pro-60 would be an obvious choice, but perhaps modding the 780 would be a better option.

I have an operational question though. If I make the mod on my 780, and run the software, does that imply that I can't *also* use the scanner for its normal intended purpiose? Normally the 780 is used for most of the remaining conventional frequencies, and the EDACS stuff up here in Ottawa. If I understand Trunker usage, if I wanted to log stuff I'd normally just leave it sitting on the control channel and not scanning. Is that right? I've been reading a few forums on this stuff, but I can't quite figure out the pros and cons of using an "active" scanner as opposed to a "spare" scanner.

 

[DaveH]

Therein lies the problem...you can't use the scanner for anything else at the time. It has to sit on the CC full-time.

I know what Mike says can be done, finding the correct logic point (not the discriminator) inside the radio, and feeding it directly to the RS232 port. It relies on the RS232 input in the computer switching at TTL levels. In theory there is a logic "dead-zone" for RS232 from -3v to +3v. Personally I would avoid this because one short across the connector, or simple wiring error, could place up to +/-12v on the tap point. If it is protected against this, OK, but I prefer the safe route. The slicer isolates the radio and computer, and makes the setup useable across different radios who may not all have the logic tap point.

I just temporarily connected my $8 fleamarket special scanner (BC142) to the slicer and it works fine on Moto and EDACS. The PRO-60 should be OK; does it have 800MHz?

Dave

 

[bpsmicro]

I'm handy with a soldering iron, so I'd go the safe route too. No problem there.

The Pro-60 doesn't do 800MHz, but I'm not concerned with the EDACS system, only the new Fleetnet Zone 2. But right now the Pro-60 isn't on a decent antenna, which would complicate things. But that's okay, I'll add this to my project list to get running sometime.

 

[dollar]

I have made several posts to the Bell Zone 2 page. My posts were based on my continuous monitoring of the Bell system, mainly from the Haliburton tower (site 026) although occasionally from the Fenlon Falls tower (site 027).

I am not using any trunktracking software, but am monitoring with a Pro-96 digital scanner.

The Haliburton and Kawartha Lakes talk groups have been moving occasionally. They were both on 8336 for quite a while, but moved to 8304 a week or two ago and have been there steadily ever since. TG 8336 has been silent ever since.

 

[mikewazowski]

Personally I would avoid this because one short across the connector, or simple wiring error, could place up to +/-12v on the tap point.
Dave

Of course, anybody going into their scanner to stick in a discriminator tap or slicer tap probably knows what they're doing and this would never happen.

If you've got an old scanner with a slicer point then it works great. No need to bring along an external slicer at all. Most trunktracking Uniden radios have this point easily available. If you've abandoned one of the first generation trunktrackers for a newer model then think about adding the slicer tap (and discriminator tap while you're in there).

 

[transam76]

Newbie to this . I have aquestion i just bought a pro96 programmed it all and everything with the frequecies i needed. Now here comes the problem i went into the v-folders and cant get my scanner out of them tried everything. Hope i didnt lose all my freqencies in normal scan. Any help would be apprecieted. Im starting to get very frustrated and starting to feel ill about this.

 

[mikewazowski]

The Haliburton and Kawartha Lakes talk groups have been moving occasionally. They were both on 8336 for quite a while, but moved to 8304 a week or two ago and have been there steadily ever since. TG 8336 has been silent ever since.

This is where people need to be careful. I fired up trunker this morning on the Fenelon site and it shows that tg's 8304, 8336 and 8784 are all currently patched together.

I don't know how the Pro-96 shows talkgroup patches but I suspect nothing is moving around at all. The Pro-96 is showing you the talkgroup that the dispatcher initially set the patch up on. One day it might be 8304 and the next day it might be 8336.