SDS100/SDS200: Best way to find Freq and DMR TGs in a new undocumented area?

[Computrguy]

OK, so I am off on another cruise. This one is Norwegian (NCL). I was on Carnival a few weeks ago and I really could not figure out how to do what I want to do.
I've had the scanner for years and know the basics with using the db and FLs and profiles. What I don't know how to do is use it to find new information that is not documented elsewhere. I also never used the recording function.
I'd love to help out the community in finding the info. I need some help and simply saying go to the easier to read manual doesn't help much.
Here is what I'd like to be able to accomplish.
NCL is using DMR on their ships. There are some frequencies known but not all. There are a couple talkgroups known for only 2 ships. Neither of these will be the one I am on.
I'd like to scan the known frequencies and find the TGs in use on the ship I will be on (NCL SKY).
I'd like to setup the SDS100 to gather the TGs and other pertinent info (slot, freq, etc.) that are in use and unknown.
For the known items I can set up a FL. That I think I can do.
For the unknown items do I use Search? Closecall? Something else? What parameters do I set them up with?
For unknown TGs but a know frequency how do I set that up? I don't see a search feature for TGs so not sure what to do there.
Also, I have a 436 that I can use (both have DMR enabled) but I thought the 100 had the configurable screen so I can capture the needed info easier.
TIA

 

[Ubbe]

The other Norwegian ships that have a documented DMR system all use 457/467.525 457/467.550 and 457/467.575
Enter the different TG's documented TG1=Bridge TG521=Bridge and use IDSearch to monitor all TG's and push Enter when monitoring an unknown one and try to add a description before saving it.

The other scanner can do searches over the 155.5-156.9Mhz range and 457.5-457.9 and 467.5-467.9 to find any new frequencies. VHF are 25KHz step but UHF can be 6.25KHz. Both scanners can do Search+Scan and a full search of that VHF and UHF range would take 2 sec. The BCD436 seems to do better in CloseCall than the SDS100 and if that are set to DND it would probably add another 1 sec between scan of the DMR frequencies, that can be done in a OFT system without a need to enter correct LCN's as it probably are a Cap+ system. But if the frequencies are also entered in a MotoTrbo system you can run LCN finder on it, it would probably come up as LCN1,2,3 in frequency order, and then use that system with IDsearch.

/Ubbe

 

[belvdr]

This is something I never knew how to do either. I believe it would be an excellent addition to the wiki, including using SDRs and other scanners.

 

[Computrguy]

Thanks Unbe for that.
I have questions as I have not set up any searches previously.
I think this is where I don’t understand in the first paragraph.
When I set up a FL I first set up a System. I called it DMR NCL. I then setup 2 Departments, one for Pearl and one for Bliss.
Pearl has 3 TGs - 521, 522, 523
Bliss has 1 TG - 1
Then I set up a Site. It holds the Frequencies all doing Color Code Search
457.525
457.55
457.575
457.6
If I set the System Options to ID: Search to On does it search for all TGs anyway? If it does, then is the only reason for the TGs to be included in the Depts is to pinpoint a known TG with a label (the Dept name)?

In the 2nd paragraph I am not sure what I need to set up. Do I need to edit the Step for UHF? Where?
Then you discuss CAP+ and MotoTrbo. You also mention Search and CloseCall along with OFT.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with all the search features and how to set them up. If I dare ask for a little more hand holding that kind of what I need at this point
Thanks for all your help either way!

 

[dave3825]

If I set the System Options to ID: Search to On does it search for all TGs anyway?

Easier to Read SDS100/200 Digital Scanner Manual

If it does, then is the only reason for the TGs to be included in the Depts is to pinpoint a known TG with a label (the Dept name)?

Depts store and group talk groups together regardless of if they have a label or not. I have just plain tg id's mixed in depts with labeled known tg's. Depts can also store gps location data.

 

[Computrguy]

Easier to Read SDS100/200 Digital Scanner Manual

Depts store and group talk groups together regardless of if they have a label or not. I have just plain tg id's mixed in depts with labeled known tg's. Depts can also store gps location data.

What might I be doing wrong? I am on the Celebration now and not picking up anything. Another post in the Marine scanning forum onRR has the TGs listed so I just added them

What Radio Systems Should I Expect On The Carnival Celebration?

Be discreet. The staff screening you at embarkation likely have as much training and authority to ruin your fun as your typical disinterested or power-tripping TSA agent. I passed once by saying the SDR stick is for watching tv while I'm in port (it's the generic ones that say FM/DVB/ATSC) but...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[Ubbe]

What might I be doing wrong? I am on the Celebration now and not picking up anything.

Go to the scanners menu and into Search for... and select Edit Custom.
Pick a Custom that re free that you do not use for anything else. Go to Edit Srch Limit and set lower to 457.500 and upper to 457.600
Set step to 6,25
You can set Search with Scan if you want to use that feature.
Go back one step and pick another Custom configuration and program it the same way but change the frequencies to 467.500 and 467.600
Back one step in the menu and select Custom Search. Push the number buttons to toggle the Custom configuration on and off so that only the two you have programmed are active. Some ships use the 457MHz band as repeater output and others 467MHz.

When it finds a carrier it will start to monitor the analog channel and you can push enter to save it to a quick list but if you select No instead of Yes it will display all the Favorite lists you have. If you had created one "Unknown Celebration" FL you can save the found frequencies there. It will also start to decode any digital signals found that can also be saved to the list.

If you program the found digital channels in a DMR OFT system and in the same site you will then not get hung up on the control channel data and can monitor the DMR system in a normal way without any LCN's being known and you can enter and edit the TG's found.

/Ubbe

 

[Computrguy]

Go to the scanners menu and into Search for... and select Edit Custom.
Pick a Custom that re free that you do not use for anything else. Go to Edit Srch Limit and set lower to 457.500 and upper to 457.600
Set step to 6,25
You can set Search with Scan if you want to use that feature.
Go back one step and pick another Custom configuration and program it the same way but change the frequencies to 467.500 and 467.600
Back one step in the menu and select Custom Search. Push the number buttons to toggle the Custom configuration on and off so that only the two you have programmed are active. Some ships use the 457MHz band as repeater output and others 467MHz.

When it finds a carrier it will start to monitor the analog channel and you can push enter to save it to a quick list but if you select No instead of Yes it will display all the Favorite lists you have. If you had created one "Unknown Celebration" FL you can save the found frequencies there. It will also start to decode any digital signals found that can also be saved to the list.

If you program the found digital channels in a DMR OFT system and in the same site you will then not get hung up on the control channel data and can monitor the DMR system in a normal way without any LCN's being known and you can enter and edit the TG's found.

/Ubbe

Ok. I think we’re making progress.
It’s was getting hung up on the search. I turn Attenuation on and it got rid of hanging. I think this ship has a lot of noise in it as it has a lot of technology on it. It’s only a few months old.
Ok no hits yet but when it does I then should add it as a DMR OFT item in a FL with what info it gives me?
Can this be recorded and played back later so I can add whatever it finds then?
Real progress is good! I don’t feel so stupid anymore 😇

 

[Ubbe]

It’s was getting hung up on the search. I turn Attenuation on and it got rid of hanging.

You probably have a good signal, -70dBm or stronger, on the ship and then using the attenuator will help the SDS100 scanner to overcome its troublesome interference issues. It probably also helps with the filter settings and IFX. If the scanner stops on a frequency and you do not hear anything are a result from how the squelch and RF signal detection works in the scanner. It detects a signal but its not on the exact frequency so it will not unmute the audio and are then anyhow only some interference, if it's not a datasignal it decodes like the control channel bursts in a DMR system.

Any frequency where you get DMR or CAP+ signal indication should be entered in a common site in a OFT system and set to IDSearch.

Recording functions are bit limited in Uniden scanners, it's all or nothing. If you enable recording you can review all of them and listen if you are able to figure out what each TG are used for. But it will probably follow the system that their other ships are using.

/Ubbe

 

[Computrguy]

I have a bunch of things I’ve added over the past few days on the Carnival Celebration. Getting hits and compiling info and keeping the recordings.
What I don’t quite understand is the difference between a DMR One Frequency System and a MotoTRBO Trunk System. I know I can add TGs to the DMR system and not to the MT system and they are both DMR but that’s about all I know.

 

[dave3825]

What I don’t quite understand is the difference between a DMR One Frequency System and a MotoTRBO Trunk System.

I know I can add TGs to the DMR system and not to the MT system and they are both DMR but that’s about all I know.

Huh?

Tg's can be added to either. I have DMR One Freq set ups and MotoTRBO Trunked all with multiple tg's in each.

 

[Computrguy]

Huh?

Tg's can be added to either. I have DMR One Freq set ups and MotoTRBO Trunked all with multiple tg's in each.

Ah. Bear with me I’m learning this DMR stuff, slowly.
You are correct. I never went into the Department where TGs are setup. Adding the TGs now
Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Ubbe]

What I don’t quite understand is the difference between a DMR One Frequency System and a MotoTRBO Trunk System.

If you monitor a call in MotoTrbo system and another call starts that are a private radio to radio call, then when the first call ends the MotoTrbo system will not know about that private call. The OFT system will in that case instantly monitor that private call if it finds it first in the scan cycle before the control channel frequency are found.

The MotoTrbo system will sit on the control channel all the time but OFT will start to scan the other channels if the control channel becomes idle and will find any private calls that where missed.

But it also means that when OFT are out scanning other channels it might miss the start of a new call and could take a second or two until it starts to monitor it. If you monitor all TG's and not avoid any then it shouldn't be any noticeable difference between the system types but OFT would have that private call advantage.

/Ubbe

 

[werinshades]

If you monitor a call in MotoTrbo system and another call starts that are a private radio to radio call, then when the first call ends the MotoTrbo system will not know about that private call.


/Ubbe

This is not correct. If you program a Talkgroup as i0 (small eye, zero), and Text Tag it as Private Call, it will treat it as any other programmed talkgroup. This also works in P25 and NXDN Trunking systems.

 

[Ubbe]

This is not correct. If you program a Talkgroup as i0 (small eye, zero), and Text Tag it as Private Call, it will treat it as any other programmed talkgroup. This also works in P25 and NXDN Trunking systems.

You are correct but that is the actual programming. The system itself are not sending out any info about the ongoing private call besides the initial short burst of info from the control channel when it is set up. When the private call have started the info about it are not sent out any more and only way to catch it, if the radio or scanner where not monitoring the control channel at that time, are to search the voice channels.

/Ubbe

 

[werinshades]

You are correct but that is the actual programming. The system itself are not sending out any info about the ongoing private call besides the initial short burst of info from the control channel when it is set up. When the private call have started the info about it are not sent out any more and only way to catch it, if the radio or scanner where not monitoring the control channel at that time, are to search the voice channels.

/Ubbe

Ok...you mentioned that a MotoTRBO system would ignore the Private Call after another one has ended if programmed as such. I've had this happen twice on a busy airline's MotoTRBO system, and since I had a delay set, the scanner picked it right up when the first Private Call ended.

 

[JASII]

This is not correct. If you program a Talkgroup as i0 (small eye, zero), and Text Tag it as Private Call, it will treat it as any other programmed talkgroup. This also works in P25 and NXDN Trunking systems.

Now have to try that.

Is that a Uniden exclusive?

Or, would it also work on a Unication G5?