I live near the beach tower in Indian Harbor Beach and can hear the P25 site labeled Palm Bay on my SDS100 without an antenna. Today, I was near Lake Washington and Wickham and also heard the same site from the south tower there without an antenna.
Brevard County P25 (00A.92077)
- Thread starter batdude
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I do not know anyone (on this forum or outside of here) that has the specifics of how the system will function after operation - that said, I do expect there to be simulcast sites - which tracks with your observation(s). I do not know if they are going to keep the same topology - aka the 'north system' 'south system' etc. they probably will keep this topology because buying 150+ new repeaters and installing them at all the (9?) sites .... to support a massive 28 channel countywide simulcast ---- would be quite an investment.
Yeah, that would likely indicate a simulcast. Based on the images in post #20, it looks like they might be consolidating or incorporating the beach site into the new North and South P25 Simulcast.
If this is all true, that may mean that WQWU401 would be part of site 10.10, Palm Bay (I assume the name will change once more sites go live and are mapped). I'd expect some of the licences to overlap, just like with EDACS. But sometimes licences aren't that reliable.
ecps92
Member
The attachments on the WQWU401 license, provide some insight into extended/slow growth time-line
WB2UZR
Member
I've been listening to the system for a bit, and have noticed something on the Satellite Beach PD TG. When dispatch makes a transmission, it sounds fine. When the car responds, it is garbled and almost sounds encrypted, although I suppose it isn't. All I have heard so far recently using the TG list here on RR is Satellite Beach and Indian Harbor Beach. Just an observation, thanks for all the good info here!
note: encryption has been in use on the Satellite Beach PD talkgroup - not from dispatch - but from at least 1 mobile user.
WB2UZR
Member
That's what I'm hearing here then.
Thanks!
I had a chat with someone "in the know" today, (I mean, absolutely without a doubt, he WOULD know, he's definitely in the loop) and he said that by mid July they'll begin transitioning SOME users to P25, operational test phase, and plans are to keep them there if they are functioning well. Of course it's going to be a long transition to get everybody on the system.
There is encryption, a single key for ALL users of the whole system, but apparently it's not being used on all groups yet. And it may be an option to use it rather than full-time.
The County plans to retain the EDACS system as a hot backup until P25 proves reliable...and given the migration schedule, that looks like they'll keep it hot and ready for three years to come just for migration scheduling purposes.
If you're hearing voice audio, you're NOT hearing encryption. Believe that.
Very soon I'll have an XL185P that no longer serves a purpose for me. Because it doesn't have P25 features in it anyway.
There is encryption, a single key for ALL users of the whole system, but apparently it's not being used on all groups yet. And it may be an option to use it rather than full-time.
The County plans to retain the EDACS system as a hot backup until P25 proves reliable...and given the migration schedule, that looks like they'll keep it hot and ready for three years to come just for migration scheduling purposes.
If you're hearing voice audio, you're NOT hearing encryption. Believe that.
Very soon I'll have an XL185P that no longer serves a purpose for me. Because it doesn't have P25 features in it anyway.
DSD+ has shown at least 3 different AES keys in use (044A, 044B and 044D) - so I seriously question your in the know person.
just FYI. whether that holds going forward, I do not know.
If you knew who I was talking to, then you'd trust what I heard, however, at no point was I told that there could not be more keys in use, simply that there is a common key at this point. One does not prove the other can't be true.
And now I know what I've been hearing. I've heard certain users suddenly sounding very "digital" and I surmise that they are on the P25 system and I'm hearing their patched audio on the EDACS system. Yeah, that works. It also explains some comments I've heard on their voice quality.
I'm not worried about the EDACS system going away anytime very soon. According to the published migration schedule it's going to be six months at a minimum before most users are transitioned over. And it'll probably stay up and patched over to the P25 system for some time after the transition is complete, or with certain restrictions. Aren't some frequencies on the EDACS system to be repurposed for the P25 system? That'll cause LCN errors in the EDACS system unless accounted for.
And now I know what I've been hearing. I've heard certain users suddenly sounding very "digital" and I surmise that they are on the P25 system and I'm hearing their patched audio on the EDACS system. Yeah, that works. It also explains some comments I've heard on their voice quality.
I'm not worried about the EDACS system going away anytime very soon. According to the published migration schedule it's going to be six months at a minimum before most users are transitioned over. And it'll probably stay up and patched over to the P25 system for some time after the transition is complete, or with certain restrictions. Aren't some frequencies on the EDACS system to be repurposed for the P25 system? That'll cause LCN errors in the EDACS system unless accounted for.
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Holy smokes. I thought Elroy passed away a few years back. Good to see you on here. We collaborated on here when EDACS went simulcast.
I didn't die, but my interest in following this stuff in great detail did for a number of years! But that's in part because once the system went simulcast, it never really changed after that. Or very little. Radio techs have a great aversion to touching THOUSANDS of radios on a regular basis, and customers have an aversion to paying for that, too!
This is just speculation on my part but I don't expect the system, either one of them, to go full-time encryption until migration is more or less completed. Listen while you can. It won't last forever.
Careful, that kind of speculation could result in the streamers foaming at the mouth.😉
More speculation....as I understand it, the EDACS sites use P25 capable Mastr V repeaters, same as the P25 sites. It would be sensible to draw down channels on the EDACS sites one channel at a time and transfer those repeaters to the P25 sites, thus transferring channel capacity from the old system to the new one at the same time as more users are migrated from the old system to the new one.
I'm already confused as to why the county has surplussed out some XG75Ps that are provisioned with P25 including Phase 2. Seems like there's no real reason to do that, and lots of reasons to keep them in service if they're Phase 2 capable right now.
I'm already confused as to why the county has surplussed out some XG75Ps that are provisioned with P25 including Phase 2. Seems like there's no real reason to do that, and lots of reasons to keep them in service if they're Phase 2 capable right now.
That's how I moved from 813A to 598 in Palm Beach County, initially was 7 channels at a time to match the combiner layout and the final move was 2 steps on the last combiner, finally eliminating the mixed-mode system.
Palm Beach County? Back in the 90s when it was a Type II system, I had a "friend" who somehow had access to that system via a system admin friend. He even set me up with an STX 821 with GPS 1.1 controller so we could talk. Whole thing was kind of sketchy. Guy was in the alarm system business....no longer my favorite human being, his fingers got REAL sticky. But his full library of Motorola RSS software packages in the big white boxes with the red and green floppy disc artwork was quite impressive.
I heard an Indialantic PD unit last night that had the digital sound to his voice transmission. So at least one IPD unit is on the P25 system doing live testing.
I note there can be some confusion as to whether some system data should be in hex or in decimal. It's reasonable to assume some people use RPM or RPM2 for programming, while others use scanner and DSD derived data. The database, in my opinion, should be explicit about this at all times.
To clarify, RPM/RPM2 uses hex values, the database uses decimal values. Conversion to hex is necessary if you are using Harris gear.
So sites 10 and 40 are A and 28 in hex.
Definitely there will be a learning curve for those officers who are getting the fun of trying out the P25 gear. The incredibly shrill audio of P25 is like running a cheese grater over the eardrums. Talking quietly into the mic guarantees nobody will understand what you're saying.
Officers will miss the EDACS audio quality.
So sites 10 and 40 are A and 28 in hex.
Definitely there will be a learning curve for those officers who are getting the fun of trying out the P25 gear. The incredibly shrill audio of P25 is like running a cheese grater over the eardrums. Talking quietly into the mic guarantees nobody will understand what you're saying.
Officers will miss the EDACS audio quality.
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