California highway patrol... questions

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Numatik

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i feel overwhelmed. im still new to this scanner business but im still not fully understanding this chp all together....

the only chp channels that seem to be working well are the fspchp and patch channels.

im using the 800mhz antenna from radioshack, i dont use the factory rubber antenna.

because fspchp and patch are part of the sacramento TRS, my bank 3 for chp is MOT. tward the bottom of the list past the trs channels i have north sac chpB, north sac chpM, south sac chp B, south sac chpM. they are set as FM. are these supposed to be CT? could this be the problem?

again i apologize, im still trying to learn this stuff, and i appreciate everyones patience
 

RolnCode3

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i feel overwhelmed. im still new to this scanner business but im still not fully understanding this chp all together....

the only chp channels that seem to be working well are the fspchp and patch channels.

im using the 800mhz antenna from radioshack, i dont use the factory rubber antenna.

because fspchp and patch are part of the sacramento TRS, my bank 3 for chp is MOT. tward the bottom of the list past the trs channels i have north sac chpB, north sac chpM, south sac chp B, south sac chpM. they are set as FM. are these supposed to be CT? could this be the problem?

again i apologize, im still trying to learn this stuff, and i appreciate everyones patience

There's nothing "wrong" with what you have set up. The channels set to FM will also work as CT. There are problems, however:

1)The talkgroups on the TRS account for almost none of CHP's traffic. Basically you're just getting the FSP units, not actual CHP officers. I never heard a transmission on any of the CHP patch talkgroups that have existed on the old and new system (maybe that changed?).

2)The antenna you're using. Completely wrong for VHF low-band. You might get some transmissions, but listening to CHP is heavily dependent on an appropriate antenna. Take a look at a CHP patrol car some time. You'll see one antenna that's about 5 feet tall. That's the type of antenna you want.
 

lbfd09

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Numatik

It does sound like you might have some kind of antenna issue. A broadband (scanner) antenna is best. I use one of my tri-band (6m/2m440) antennas when I do not have any of the Mon-50 (an old Antenna Specialist broad banded antenna).

I remember the first time connecting my scanner to the CB antenna and listening to the CHP and Division of Highways (CalTRANS now) I was in 7th heaven. It seemed like I could hear the entire state.

The CHP uses the VHF low band because fo the hills and mountains within California. That means you should at least be able to hear the local office even with a poor antenna. Make sure you have good coax that are properly terminated (no frayed shorts with the grounding shield) and a good clean antenna assembly.

While coax impedance is something to watch, it should not bother you and your reception issues of the CHP frequencies here. while all is built around the use of 50 ohm coax, the use of say 75 ohm TV coax will not affect your reception appreciably in this case. <Bottom line - coax type should be a non-issue.>

Using the factory rubber duck - will this improve you ability to hear the local CHP office?

If still hearing nothing - double check the frequencies, making sure you have updated to the new frequencies. I believe all of the Valley's will have a 2 at the end in the RR data base.
 

Numatik

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Numatik

It does sound like you might have some kind of antenna issue. A broadband (scanner) antenna is best. I use one of my tri-band (6m/2m440) antennas when I do not have any of the Mon-50 (an old Antenna Specialist broad banded antenna).

I remember the first time connecting my scanner to the CB antenna and listening to the CHP and Division of Highways (CalTRANS now) I was in 7th heaven. It seemed like I could hear the entire state.

The CHP uses the VHF low band because fo the hills and mountains within California. That means you should at least be able to hear the local office even with a poor antenna. Make sure you have good coax that are properly terminated (no frayed shorts with the grounding shield) and a good clean antenna assembly.

While coax impedance is something to watch, it should not bother you and your reception issues of the CHP frequencies here. while all is built around the use of 50 ohm coax, the use of say 75 ohm TV coax will not affect your reception appreciably in this case. <Bottom line - coax type should be a non-issue.>

Using the factory rubber duck - will this improve you ability to hear the local CHP office?

If still hearing nothing - double check the frequencies, making sure you have updated to the new frequencies. I believe all of the Valley's will have a 2 at the end in the RR data base.

ah ok. that makes sense with the antenna, especially comparing my little antenna to a huge one. i dont want to buy a second antenna just to hear chp, but i have not tried using the old rubber antenna. i i live in west sacramento and davis was just out of range, and when i bought my 800mhz antenna it comes in pretty clear now most days

but any of those channels except fsp and patch are just static. i did try changing to ct just to see if it made a difference, but i havnt left my house since to test if it worked.

is there a way with my crappy antenna to only pick up freqs that are very close to me without just noise?

also for the valley freqs u said end in 2? i have north sac 44.62, north sac M 44.66, 42.28 south sac B, 44.66 south sac M, and valley blue wide 44.84. these are correct right? this is exactly how they are in my scanner, with CT not fm . and i read previously its normal to have dif areas on the map with the same freq like south sac and north sac with 44.66.
 
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lbfd09

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ah ok. that makes sense with the antenna, especially comparing my little antenna to a huge one. i dont want to buy a second antenna just to hear chp, but i have not tried using the old rubber antenna. i i live in west sacramento and davis was just out of range, and when i bought my 800mhz antenna it comes in pretty clear now most days

You should be within range of the Sacramento, Woodland And Vaca units - well at least the base transmissions. Now as to antenna that 800 meg should hear, but a good - let's say dual ban ham (2m/440) would have no problem.

I missed if you have a HH scanner or a base unit. If it's HH yes try the rubber duck as it's sometimes called and try different locations inside and out.

but any of those channels except fsp and patch are just static. i did try changing to ct just to see if it made a difference, but i havnt left my house since to test if it worked.
... ... ...
also for the valley freqs u said end in 2? i have north sac 44.62, north sac M 44.66, 42.28 south sac B, 44.66 south sac M, and valley blue wide 44.84. these are correct right? this is exactly how they are in my scanner, with CT not fm . and i read previously its normal to have dif areas on the map with the same freq like south sac and north sac with 44.66.

I would try without any tones to see what you hear. Then put the tones back in. As the frequencies --
44.66000 WRG698 B 173.8 PL BLK2 VAL B Base - BLACK 2 - South Sacramento (112) / Woodland (47) / Rancho Cordova (58) FM Law Dispatch
42.28000 KA4993 M 173.8 PL BLK2 VAL M Mobile - BLACK 2 - South Sacramento (112) / Woodland (47) / Rancho Cordova (58) FM Law Dispatch

The 2 I was talking about is the Black2 all the channel names are used twice while they are converting the channels statewide. The original is Black and the new as used here is Black2. You seem the have the correct frequency, so that's no longer a concern.

Good Luck....
 
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Big_Ears

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The white CHP Crown Vics which usually have low profile (or internal) light bars and the standard STAR and HIGHWAY PATROL on the front side doors are usually called "Edward" units and are utilized for special projects. The can be used for Speed Enforcement where they have the Ku/Ka radar and the handheld LIDAR (laser beam) speed indicators. They are also used soley for looking for drunk/ agressive drivers. There are special equipped cars that are used for stolen car theft interdiction and have LOJACK radios/antennas. Or if things are slow or that unit is the only close, he may be dispatched for normal response to accidents and/or normal unit tasks.
 

Numatik

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are you using the ctcss tone's with the channels, i monitor the chp alot, the base channels are where i hear most traffic, i usally monitor the brown channels, if you use the 154.905 channel you will here them when they are close, this is the link between thier portables to the car repeater, i have heard both sides of thier conversations on this freq too, and they are vhf low, will your antenna cover this range?

i missed this post before. i have never used ctcss before, i dont really know what it is. but all the chp frequencies iv found were low (44.66 etc) which one is 154.905? is there more in this frequencies in this higher range, maybe i will have better luck? also any other ideas other then antennas that could help me? also im gonna research what ctcss is, cause iv never used it before

You should be within range of the Sacramento, Woodland And Vaca units - well at least the base transmissions. Now as to antenna that 800 meg should hear, but a good - let's say dual ban ham (2m/440) would have no problem.

I missed if you have a HH scanner or a base unit. If it's HH yes try the rubber duck as it's sometimes called and try different locations inside and out.



I would try without any tones to see what you hear. Then put the tones back in. As the frequencies --
44.66000 WRG698 B 173.8 PL BLK2 VAL B Base - BLACK 2 - South Sacramento (112) / Woodland (47) / Rancho Cordova (58) FM Law Dispatch
42.28000 KA4993 M 173.8 PL BLK2 VAL M Mobile - BLACK 2 - South Sacramento (112) / Woodland (47) / Rancho Cordova (58) FM Law Dispatch

The 2 I was talking about is the Black2 all the channel names are used twice while they are converting the channels statewide. The original is Black and the new as used here is Black2. You seem the have the correct frequency, so that's no longer a concern.

Good Luck....

I have a Radioshack pro-96 HH scanner. (and i love it :D)

I have the same freqs saved, but what do you mean about the tones?
 

SCPD

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the 154.905 is the freq the handhelds link to the car repeater, so when you here transmission on this freq you know you are close to a chp unit, maybe 2-3 miles or closer, that was all i was refering to. i think you stated you do not want to get a second, but i would suggest you try the metal expandable handheld antenna from radio shack, i have good success with this on all the freq's i monitor.
 

Numatik

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ah ok im def gonna save that one! are there any others in that range?

i think for all other chp channels im just going to lock them out, cause i cant pick them up with my scanner the way it is right now. maybe down the road if i got an antenna for my car, but i would also need an antenna that picks up 800mhz crystal clear, cause thats the majority of my channels

so last try, is there any other chp channels i can pick up with my scanner as is?
 

lbfd09

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The new P25 700 mHz frequencies are replacing the 154.905. Sacramento I mean the Valley Division seems to be the lucky division that got to change first. You will have both in use until all are changed out.

How's the low band monitoring going? (the 42 to 46 meg channels)
 

Numatik

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The new P25 700 mHz frequencies are replacing the 154.905. Sacramento I mean the Valley Division seems to be the lucky division that got to change first. You will have both in use until all are changed out.

How's the low band monitoring going? (the 42 to 46 meg channels)

So, i have the one 154.905 but its been quiet i havnt done to much driving with it yet. i had to lock out all 42-44 meg channels cause all i got was static anywhere i drove to (primarily back from West Sacramento to Davis. Il be traveling through the heart of Sac sometime soon and il unlock them to see if i get better luck.

I have seen on the CHP page about the P25 700MHZ frequencies, but is there some time frame of when they will be in effect, specifically in the Sacramento region? I think Il add them today so they are already programmed and il just be on watch for them.
 

SCPD

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i add the 700mhz channels about a month ago, have heard it used once, is it still in testing?
 

Mike_G_D

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CTCSS stands for Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System. That's the generic term for what Motorola calls "PL" or "Private Line". It is what people are referring to here when we are referring to "tones". You can think of it as a selective calling system that allows radios of different agencies or groups of users to use the same radio frequency but not be bothered by each others' traffic. It works basically by sending a continuous tone of very low frequency along with the users' transmissions. A group, agency, or set of users is assigned a specific tone and their radio transmitters and receivers are set to use that tone - the transmitters will send it out during each transmission and the corresponding receivers will only unmute when receiving a transmission with that particular tone. This allows multiple groups of users to share a radio frequency without bothering each other with the wrong traffic. Random interference such as atmospheric noise and noise from other sources is also not passed through to the speaker obviously because random noise like that (usually) doesn't contain the correct subaudible tone so this is an added benefit. The tones range from about 67Hz to about 250Hz or so (I think the wiki on the subject here contains the exact frequencies). Generally, most LMR (land mobile radio) gear is designed to only pass audio frequencies above 300Hz or so and below 3KHz, which are where most human voice communication information outside of singing is contained, to the audio amplifier for transmission and reception; within limits, however, frequencies outside this range can be added for special uses such as selective calling especially at the low end. Filtering to allow only this range of audio frequencies enhances radio voice communication and reduces high and low frequency noise For non-broadcast use (i.e. non-music, voice only) this is desired. The CTCSS tones are placed deliberately below this range so that the user doesn't hear the tones; Humans don't hear these tones that well especially the very lowest of them and the radios' audio amplifier circuits add additional filtering to filter them out before the voice frequencies are amplified. Before the filtering, however, tone decode circuits will still receive and decode these frequencies.

Businesses use this alot because business radio frequencies are very busy with multiple users on the same frequency (called co-channel users). Government agencies like the CHP use it so that they can re-use their frequencies throughout the state and not hear the undesired traffic - this is coordinated so as to minimize interference by keeping a minimum distance between different districts. Despite the distance, however, especially at VHF-Low frequencies, sometimes distant traffic is still strong enough to bother local receivers so having the CTCSS tone system keeps that traffic muted.

Radio repeaters also use this type of system to selectively block non-affiliated co-channel users from accessing the repeater - very important for high level mountaintop repeaters like what the CHP uses.

In your case, you would set your Pro-96 to use "CT" mode and set the tone to match what is written in the database for your desired agency. Check your manual to see exactly how to do this. This will have the added benefit of eliminating that static you keep mentioning but still allow, ideally, you to hear the desired transmissions assuming you are in range with the proper antenna, etc.

Another variation of this system is called "DCS", Digital Coded Squelch. On your 96 I think it would be the DC mode (not sure - been awhile since I used a 96). For all intents and purposes it functions much like regular CTCSS as far as a scanner user is concerned but yields many more distinct codes - business users use this alot as well as CTCSS but, currently, the CHP only uses CTCSS. It uses low frequency subaudible digitally coded pulses sent out continually rather than one steady tone as CTCSS does.

Keep in mind that CTCSS and DCS don't really eliminate interference they just keep the users from hearing it from their radio receivers' speakers. The interference is still there and can, when strong enough, still block the desired traffic or destructively interfere with it but users with these tone squelch systems will not typically hear the resulting noise - they will just hear nothing if this is the case.

For CHP monitoring you really need to monitor the low band frequencies - the extender frequencies such as the old but still used in many areas 154.905MHz as well as the new 700MHz VRS frequencies are really only good within a few miles of the car unit when an officer is using them and may not always be turned on. They use these "extenders" to provide mobile officers with portable radio coverage when they are away from their car radio. The VHF-Low band uses a long enough wavelength that making an efficient portable radio antenna for that band is nearly impossible without making it very long and unwieldy. So the CHP uses "extender" systems that are basically low powered vehicular repeaters placed inside their cars to repeat the traffic to portable radios operating on much higher radio frequencies meaning much smaller and more efficient antennas (relative to the wavelength). The new VRS 700MHz extenders are going to replace the older VHF-High 154.905MHz equipment and are starting to be employed. The older system used (and still uses) regular analog FM and used a single frequency "sampling" repeater which simply chopped the transmission from the car at periodic intervals to listen for portable transmissions - this is why, if you do hear one of these it will have the characteristic "chopped" audio sound to it. The new VRS system will be P25 digital modulation audio and will have true dual-frequency repeaters within the cars with many channels so that multiple on-scene units won't interfere with each other as much and/or allow different districts and/or offices to use different channels. Keep in mind that these systems are intended only for short range use within a mile or less from the mobile units so, although interesting to monitor for special reasons like "just to see if you can" and to give one some idea that a CHP car is likely fairly close, they are not suitable for monitoring all of the main traffic on a continuous basis - you still need the main low band frequencies for that. Still, they may also be used for close range car-to-car traffic as well as the usual low band channels (the CHP typically uses the base frequency for car-to-car direct traffic when necessary) - definitely the VHF 154.905MHz extender channel is sometimes used this way.

Hope this helps!

-Mike
 
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WA1ATA

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Sorry, they are for nailing truckers only!

oops, i meant the white cars only...
That's strange. Yesterday on CA85 in Saratoga (San Jose area) I saw a white CHP car that had pulled over a passenger vehicle.

I have seen several in what appears to be speed trap sort of work over the last week or so .. parked at the side of the road and point laser or radar speed detectors at cars, or with a car pulled over to the side of the road, apparently writing a ticket.

Vehicles over 9000 pounds GVH are prohibited from this section of highway, so big trucks aren't on that highway.
 
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Numatik

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Mike,

Thank you for that super long response! i learned ALOT and im gonna have to read it a few more times so i can remember more. Thank you! and thats excellent info for all other forum users to check out too
 
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