Camden County Trunk System

[W2SJW]

Guys,

Well, it made the front page here this morning...

Let's have some mature discussion about your feelings on it. I'll admit right off the bat that I'm a /\/\ fanboy, so I'll be 100% pleased if they don't award the contract to M/A-COM... :lol:

Point #1 - I'd love to see them use Motorola like Burlington did.

Point #2 - They're out of their mind if they build it like Burlington built theirs (7 separate zones with hundreds of talkgroups to get lost in???)

 

[N2DLX]

If they were smart, they should hold off for P25 Phase II to make its way into the mix. Although they'd be the guinea pigs for it since it would be brand-spanking-new, it saves them the hassle of worrying about 6.25 kHz equivalency in the coming years. That could cost them as much or more as the current pricetag to overhaul on short notice.

I'll agree with you 100% on the M/A-COM point. That would be a disaster judging from their recent failures. However, I think Motorola automatically gets too many contracts based on their name alone. Other manufacturers make good systems, but their fatal flaw is that no one else is as turn-key as Motorola at this point. I've lost support for Motorola on the personal radio front, but unfortunately a department has a hard time choosing anyone other than Motorola. Their funds could be spent wiser if they had a more viable alternative.

I would be in favor of true P25 Trunking, but not neccesarily by Motorola. Icom's new F9011/F9511 series radios are finally about to be released after some hiccups. They're P25 Trunking-compliant and use the AMBE+2 vocoder that is starting to take hold with Phase I P25 equipment. It falls back to support IMBE, obviously without any enhancements. If they get their P25 Trunking repeater out the door soon, Icom should be looked into. Again, they're not tailored to custom design solutions for large departments like a county, but they're moving in that direction as their radios start to fill into the Publice Safety market. On a side note, the F9021 (model number for the UHF Low split) HT has FCC approval as of 3/10/09, and it looks like the F9511's are going to be Class II changes from the F1721-series FCC IDs. They also got a 100 (or 110?) watt VHF mobile certified, the F9511H. Adding a high-power mobile rather than requiring a PA is a big step forward into the PS market.

 

[policefreak]

Im curious why do they would need so many towers?

 

[N2DLX]

700 MHz, enough said. They'd probably do better at 500 MHz (or VHF), as I don't see any RF advantages to going 700 MHz. It's not like Camden County is loaded with urban environments where building penetration is needed. Out in the Eastern half of the county, the 700 MHz may hurt them big time. I'm familiar with parts of Camden County and I know the terrain will play a sizable factor in range.

 

[N2ICV]

700 MHz, enough said. They'd probably do better at 500 MHz (or VHF), as I don't see any RF advantages to going 700 MHz. It's not like Camden County is loaded with urban environments where building penetration is needed. Out in the Eastern half of the county, the 700 MHz may hurt them big time. I'm familiar with parts of Camden County and I know the terrain will play a sizable factor in range.

1} There are no 500 mhz freqs left. BC got what was left.
2} There is lots of room in the 700 mhz band .
3} The county with have the Eastern half of the county coverd with a site down that way.
4} Camden County has lots of urban environments.
I have lived in Camden County all of my 39 years. With 4 years as a FF and 5 years with RACES.
We have needed a system like this for a long time. When the county first went to T-Band they wanted fire and ems to later move up , but by the time the money was available the freqs where not . So the only place freqs are available is 700 MHz .Im thinking some towns PD ( Winslow T-Band, Gloucester Twp T-Band, Voorhees VHf hi) may join on this.? And Camden City PD and Cherry Hill PD's have 800 Mhz EDACS TRS's so they may not join.?
Good thing I have a BCD996T. That is if they go wih Moto.

 

[policefreak]

Well Camco could use the T-band freqs they already have and if Gloucester twp or Winslow wanted to hop on the TRS could they provide those freqs? Camden County is a unique area in which there are urban areas with highrises such as Pennsauken/Collingswood/Camden and even Lindenwold. At the same time there are areas in the southern end of the county that are heavily wooded and low-lying. Thjese are places where such a system may be a problem. I agree a T-band would be much more appropriate for the area. But on the other side of this argument Atlantic county has a EDACS 800 Mhz TRS and many of those areas are lowlying and heavily wooded too. It seems to work for them. But in time the kinks will be ironed out. Just one more question. Will the City of Camden be on this system?

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

If they decide to use the freqs they already have in T Band, they are going to have to transition everything. Would a multi site simulcast be best (like Ocean County) or a multi site system (like Burlington County)? Camden County is smaller than both so I'd imagine a mutli site simulcast would work pretty well in the county. Let me try and lay out what the system might look like. Numbers do not represent actual talkgroups, just examples of how it could work. Althought I'm using a Motorola set up, it doesn't mean they will go with that.

Police

16 - PD Z1
32 - PD Z2
48 - PD Z3
64 - PD Z4
80 - PD Z5
96 - Car to Car 1, 2, 5
112 - Car to Car 3
128 - Car to Car 4
144 - Countywide PD
160 - X Band
176 - CLEEN
192 - Narcotics
208 - Fieldcom

Fire and EMS

400 - Dispatch
416 - Fire N of 295
432 - Fire S of 295
448 - Fire Channel 4
464 - Fire Police
480 - Camden City F1
496 - Camden City F2
512 - EMS Response
528 - EMS On Scene 1
544 - EMS On Scene 2
560 - EMS Response - Camden and Pennsauken

Plus other talkgroups for other services including public works.

I would say Camden City and Cherry Hill will keep their current EDACS systems since they just spent money rebanding the systems. Plus those systems work good for their areas.

Here are some frequencies that could be used if they stay with T Band.

Ch 1. 507.1125
Ch 2. 507.5125
Ch 3. 507.1625
Ch 4. 507.5625
Ch 5. 507.7125
Ch 6. 508.0125
Ch 7. 507.9125
Ch 8. 508.8875
Ch 9. 508.7875
Ch 10. 507.7875
Ch 11. 507.6625
Ch 12. 507.9375
Ch 13. 507.2125

That should be enough channels to cover the county's needs. If you want to go further, Base = 507.0000 Step = 6.25 kHz Offset = 380. This setup could work and we can always pick freqs already licensed to Camden County if we need more.

 

[robbinsj2]

I would say Camden City and Cherry Hill will keep their current EDACS systems since they just spent money rebanding the systems.

Did they? They shouldn't have, Sprint/Nextel is picking up the tab for rebanding, including for required new equipment and labor. If they elected to do other upgrades at the same time then those would be on themselves. They might actually realize a near-term savings in their radio maintenance budget, if much new equipment was required to replace old non-rebandable radios.

Jim

 

[policefreak]

Whats CLEEN? Wow thats really interesting, SEPTA3371. Sounds about right. Though I wonder if EMS will split into East and West like the fire departments did.

 

[stevecentrone]

Why not keep what they have (VHF) and just add repeaters like E-7 and E-5?

 

[Skypilot007]

Anyone have any updates or news regarding this new system? Is it going to happen or what?

 

[ampulman]

Guys,

Well, it made the front page here this morning...

Getting a 404 error. Could you please check (repost) the link.

Thanks.

Amp

 

[W2SJW]

Courier-Post pulled the story...

 

[nr2d]

700 MHz, enough said. They'd probably do better at 500 MHz (or VHF), as I don't see any RF advantages to going 700 MHz. It's not like Camden County is loaded with urban environments where building penetration is needed. Out in the Eastern half of the county, the 700 MHz may hurt them big time. I'm familiar with parts of Camden County and I know the terrain will play a sizable factor in range.

Right now several Camden County police departments use 500 MHz. Periodically they receive interference from several, Boston and Salisbury MD HD TV stations. That is 1 of the reasons to go to a new radio system.

 

[W2GLD]

Re: New Tower Installation

Another tower site for the upcoming 700 MHz. trunked radio system has just been installed at Camden County College, to the rear of the property off RT-42 & College Drive. The system buildout is right around the corner now with three towers installed and one site already up and running in site trunking mode.