Can Someone Explain this to me.....?

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ROOFLIFECO

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Hey guys
I am not sure about you all, but we have recieved about 5 brochures about "voting NO for 2A". It says that if 2A did pass, that firefighters and police officers would be handcuffed. What is this all about? Is it just a bunch of politics or what?

Thanks!
 

n0doz

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Which local jurisdiction is this? I just looked on 9news site, and there's no 2a statewide.
 

jimmnn

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ROOFLIFECO said:
Hey guys
I am not sure about you all, but we have recieved about 5 brochures about "voting NO for 2A". It says that if 2A did pass, that firefighters and police officers would be handcuffed. What is this all about? Is it just a bunch of politics or what?

Thanks!
Are you located in Aurora possibly?

http://www.safeaurora.com/

http://www.auroraapa.org/main2.htm

Jim<
 

n0doz

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Aurora wants to do away with the Civil Service Commission. From what I've been able to gather, the city apparently thinks the commission is too careful about who they hire as police officers and firefighters.
I'm kind of prejudiced, having worked under a civil service commission format for over 20 years. Any system can be abused, but having a board with even semi-independent control over who is hired for these jobs is way better than one where city councilmen can get their goofy-assed brother-in-law (the one that hasn't held a job in years) hired as a cop.
Vote according to what you want to see at your front door when you call the police or fire department.
 

sargeek

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Yes - from what I understand it they want to do away with the Civil Service Commission and allow the Human Resourse Department to do the hiring for Police & Fire.
 

firescannerbob

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sargeek said:
Yes - from what I understand it they want to do away with the Civil Service Commission and allow the Human Resourse Department to do the hiring for Police & Fire.
Nothing can possibly go wrong there...
 

jimmnn

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Questions linger as Aurora hiring measure goes to voters

Foes of shift in how police, fire jobs filled say process unclear

By Ivan Moreno, Rocky Mountain News
November 1, 2006

A week before Aurora voters decide if the city should change the way it hires police officers and firefighters, it's unclear how the new system would work.

If voters approve the change, then the responsibility for screening and hiring would shift from the city's five-member Civil Service Commission to the its Human Resources Department.

Police Chief Daniel Oates and other supporters of the change say it will provide more flexibility in hiring and make it easier to recruit minorities and women to the public safety ranks.

But opponents say voters are being asked to make a leap of faith.

"They haven't defined the process," said Terry Kulbe, administrator for the Civil Service Commission. "They haven't said how they're going to do this."

Oates said Deputy City Manager Frank Ragan and Human Resources Director Kin Shuman drafted a detailed plan in July when the City Council voted to put the measure on the ballot, but objections from the police and fire unions prevented further discussion of it.

"I think it's fairly clear that despite best efforts to reach some sort of consensus before council voted on these things, it wasn't reached," Oates said. As a result, he said, "the conversation never got down to the details of the alternative way" to hire police and firefighters.

The Civil Service Commission would still set the minimum standards for applicants but, beginning April 1, the Human Resources Department would do the screening and hiring.

Under the current system, promotions within the police department from lieutenant to captain is based on who scores highest on a civil service test. That would change to give Oates the flexibility to choose from a pool of those scoring in the top 5 percent.

The plan's detractors have mounted a tough campaign.

"Taking hiring out of civil service is removing checks and balances," said Don James, spokesman for the Aurora Police Association, which has spent $120,000 to defeat the measure.

The Aurora Fire Fighters Protective Association has contributed $300,000 to convince voters to preserve the status quo.

The police and fire unions side with the civil service commissioners' argument that the Human Resources Department will not do as thorough of a job screening applicants.

In a recent letter to the media, Commissioner Michael Knight expressed doubts that the "Human Resources Department can devote the time and effort to maintain the quality of the current selection process."

Knight also pointed out that a council member has questioned why it costs $35 for human resources personnel to process an application compared with $700 for the Civil Service Commission.

"You won't find any registered sex offenders getting past the Civil Service Commission's watchful eyes," he said, alluding to the city's hiring of Jermaine Vaden, a temporary parks employee accused of molesting a 15-year-old boy he met while at work.

Vaden was hired without undergoing a background check because of his temporary status.

Oates said when he and other city leaders were lobbying council members to put the measure on the ballot, they "committed to the council that standards would not be lessened, that we would only hire the best."

Civil service commissioners say there are still too many unanswered questions.

"They say they're going to, but will they develop a plan in April?" said Robert Brewer, chairman of the commission. "I kind of look at this as asking the public to vote and trusting the city to do the right thing."
 

n0doz

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That pretty much sums it up.
The Aurora Civil Service Commission may be expensive, but it's worth it... not just to the public, but to the policemen and firemen, too. All are protected - the public, from individuals that are not up to the standards - and the members of the depts, from management. Given the Aurora HR's track record as illustrated in the story, it's clear that those protections don't work in their office.
We all know that Civil Service protects employees from most political battles within an agency. An employee can do his job without fear of being fired or suspended without cause. By removing those protections, empoyees become vulnerable... any problem of any sort can result in termination. This, of course, results in employees that don't want to do their job for fear of what may happen. Perhaps that's the result the proponents are looking for.....
The most telling part of this for me is the lack of any information about how this will work if it's passed. At least Hickenlooper had a plan when he got the voters to change Career Service in Denver. This "trust us, we'll make it work" legislation IS dangerous to the public.
 
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