cb antenna question

[timmer]

I am in search of a "small" cb antenna that will allow me to talk/monitor local cb traffic, (around 30 miles radius). Is there such an antenna? I don't want a huge antenna on my tower. Just looking for something to allow me to converse and monitor the local area. Thanks for any suggestions in advance.

 

[wesct]

I am in search of a "small" cb antenna that will allow me to talk/monitor local cb traffic, (around 30 miles radius). Is there such an antenna? I don't want a huge antenna on my tower. Just looking for something to allow me to converse and monitor the local area. Thanks for any suggestions in advance.

how small is small?
the anttron 99 is a vertical at 18 feet in length.
the i-max 2000 is also a vertical, but is 21 feet in length.
the vector 4000 is a vertical and is 29 feet in length.

what mode are you going to use? am or ssb

remember, at 27 mhz a quarter wave antenna is 9 feet in length

wesct

 

[RevGary]

Have used the 12 foot high Patriot 12 in 3 states as a temporary base - nice compact and does the job for $45.00

Scroll down about 2/3 of the way down the page to PATRIOT 12:

http://www.pacific.us.fm/pacific2005/store/antbase.htm

 

[Bill2k]

Good luck getting 30 miles out of any cb antenna, unless you're talking skip.

I'd get an antron 99. It will definitely get you close to where you want to be.

 

[Highlander_821]

If you get an A99 high enough, and if the other station has a reasonably good antenna system, 30 miles on SSB is very doable. I had a contact with a station 110 miles from me on SSB, he was using a 4 element yagi at 100 feet , I was using a 5/8 wave verticle in a pine tree at 70-80 feet. Legal power on both ends channel 37 lsb, 2:30 AM.

It can be done.

 

[Bill2k]

If you get an A99 high enough, and if the other station has a reasonably good antenna system, 30 miles on SSB is very doable. I had a contact with a station 110 miles from me on SSB, he was using a 4 element yagi at 100 feet , I was using a 5/8 wave verticle in a pine tree at 70-80 feet. Legal power on both ends channel 37 lsb, 2:30 AM.

It can be done.

Can it be done.... Sure.

Can it be done reliably or consistently...... No.

Both systems you mention above are illegal. The highest point of a cb antenna can not exceed 60 feet. SSB transmissions can use 12 watts PEP, thats 3 times more power than the more commonly used AM.

I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to start a pissing match, I'm not. I just wanted to inform the original poster that 30 miles with a cb is a bit of a stretch.

 

[RevGary]

This past Monday, a colleague and I did a fairly involved test. We made a comparison between the Antron A-99 and the ProComm Patriot 12. Both are end fed 1/2 wave omni verticals with the Antron A-99 being 18 feet in total height above the mount and tha Partiot 12 being 12 feet in height above the mount. Tha A-99 is a full mechanical 1/2 wavelength antenna while the Patriot 12 has a loading coil and is 'electrically' 1/2 wavelength.

We started with the basic A-99 ( no ground radial kit ) on a 10 foot mast and tripod in an open field. The radio was a Uniden PRO500d on channel 20 (center band frequency) using 25 feet of RG8/U and standard PL259 (non teflon) connectors. Our field strength readings were taken with a commercial AlphaLab FSM mounted on a camera tripod at 6 feet off the ground. Our readings were taken at 50 yards, 100 yards and 150 yards from the antenna. We used binoculars to view the digital meter readings so our close proximity to the meter would not influence the readings.

The Patriot 12 was then placed on the same mount and all conditions were the same as for the A-99. The same locations were monitored and the readings were identical at 50 and 100. The surprise came out at 150 where the Patriot 12 actually out performed the A-99 by .08 uW/cm2 on the scale ( calibrated in microwatts per centimeter squared) We double checked the results and confirmed the first set of readings. The Patriot 12 seems to have a shallower departure angle for the RF lobe than than the A-99 that we tested.

Both are VERY GOOD performers and for those persons who need a smaller antenna, the Patriot 12 will do an excellent job for you. If space limitations and wind loading are not an issue for you, then the A-99 is a good choice. We know from company literature that the A-99 has a 2 dbi higher rating than the Patriot 12, but our observations made those figures arbitrary.

(This is not a general endorsement for either product. The overall performance in average conditions should be fairly equal between both antennas. However, we use the Patriot 12 in disaster responses because it is easier to transport and set up quickly than the A-99.)

 

[Highlander_821]

Can it be done.... Sure.

Can it be done reliably or consistently...... No.

Both systems you mention above are illegal. The highest point of a cb antenna can not exceed 60 feet. SSB transmissions can use 12 watts PEP, thats 3 times more power than the more commonly used AM.

I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to start a pissing match, I'm not. I just wanted to inform the original poster that 30 miles with a cb is a bit of a stretch.

*Sigh* I guess you are right about the antennas. I will point out that you might have beenwrong about my friends yagi, if it were on a tripod at the top of an eighty foot tall building, it would be legal. But it isn't. Just pointing out that a CB antenna could be legal at 100 feet. You could put one on the roof of the Sears tower, as long as it wasn't more than 20 feet above the roof.

If I am a licensed Ham, and my Cb antenna is used for 10 meter ham (which mine is), does that make it legal? It certainly isn't illegal to have it up there, but I suppose as soon as you hook a CB to it, it is illegal? Disconnect the Cb from the feedline, *poof* it is legal again???? Dumb, dumb, dumb.....

 

[nova1010]

Years agao I had an Antron-99 up...worked very good but if your looking for something smaller that works good ...try a wilson-1000 or a K-40(both mag mounts btw)..I my self have never tried the wilson or the K-40 but have a friend who has tried both on his tower and he was getting out good ,I dont know about a 30 mile radius but with a little kicker behind it you wouldnt have a problem (but have to be licenced to use a kicker)
but I personally would go for the Antron-99 worked very good for me with a Cobra 2000 or a Cobra 148 with stalk power......good luck

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi good buddy,

You won't get 30 miles out of a "small" CB antenna unless your tower is VERY tall or you've got a "leenyar" and then you're an aligator, all mouth and no ears. Just go for a normal base station antenna and a dead quiet channel. At night when the solar background noise quiets down weak signals are much easier to copy, your range nearly doubles.

BTW, stay away from fiberglass antennas, they gather static electricity and the resulting coronal discharge is very noisy. I had a world of problems with the Shakespeare Big Stick that disappeared when I replaced it with a Cushcraft Ringo having a bare aluminium DC grounded element. This is not a problem with VHF/UHF FM so fiberglass is common, the Cushman Station Master is a phenomenal performer.

Oh Nova, more than 4W carrier or 12W PEP transmitter power is ILLEGAL no matter HOW you slice it and there is no such thing as a CB license anymore. If you're licensed in any other service and get busted your license can go bye bye for life. That sort of drivel gets people in trouble so stop it!

 

[nova1010]

Oh Nova, more than 4W carrier or 12W PEP transmitter power is ILLEGAL no matter HOW you slice it and there is no such thing as a CB license anymore. If you're licensed in any other service and get busted your license can go bye bye for life. That sort of drivel gets people in trouble so stop it!

Yes I do know more than 4W carrier or 12W PEP transmitter power is ILLEGAL,and also know there is no such thing as a CB license anymore.I just figured you needed to be a licenced Ham to run any kind of power through a CB.but never knew ,If you're licensed in any other service and get busted your license can go bye bye for life.thats good to know and thanks for the tip Warren.
Learn something new everyday.

 

[corbintechboy]

I had an old olsen CB, 23 channel in my bedroom when I was a teenager with a 9ft fiberglass whip curled in a corner. The radio got out pretty good like that believe it or not. I had the ant. grounded to a old radiator electric heater for a ground and got a near flat match on the ant. Also had a old midland 23 channel with the same setup that loved to talk skip. When I started to drive I had a uniden pc76xl with a 9ft whip with a variable watt control. The secret of talking far I learned was the modulation and not the wattage. I would turn the wattage down to the lowest setting on that radio (deadkey .5 watt, swing just under 6) and would listen for the weakest person I could here, give a shout and most of the times I was heard. Farthest I ever talked on a CB was around 45 miles at the lowest setting. I hit that guy with under a pound and he heard me. I turned it up slowly to see if he could tell a difference and I made to hitting him at 3.5 pounds. Oh those were the days! If you want to recieve far, I suggest some sort of ground plane,

 

[RevGary]

Hey - Corbin...

If you were using CB in, say the early to mid 80's, you were still in the time period when background RF from all emission sources was still relatively low. These days, with RF saturation from 540Khz to 2.4 Ghz and above, the background RF on this planet is 6 times higher on average than it was back when you were active in CB. Taking it back even further, our family used CB for business operations from 1958 to 1970 using legal AM power and a HyGain CLR II base antenna and Antenna Specialists mobiles. Back in those days the background RF was negligable compared to today. On days when skip was not present, our base station could reach MOBILES 30 to 40 miles away and base to base of 60 miles or greater. Yes, those WERE the good old days. Now, in 2006, the background RF saturation is so bad that routine communications in simplex mode are roughly 1/2 to 3/4 the distance that were commonplace two decades ago on just about all frequencies in use. The technology companies all want their profits and are selling systems with higher and higher frequencies. This is creating an RF envelope around the planet and is degrading all communications systems. Remember, each time a transmitter comes on, there are harmonic emissions coming out of that same transmitter (well below main carrier strength, but present none the less). ALL of those RF emissions beat with other RF transmissions to form sum and difference frequencies which in turn beat with yet other RF signals and so on... this background RF saturation is what is creating range issues and there does not seem to be any way to control it except to throw more money at the problem and still come up empty in most cases.

The good old days? Yup - gone forever and in it's place, unreliable communications because of 'technology' and everyone in the industry wanting their fair market share without much responsibility to own up to the problem. So the next time that you use your cell phone, just remember that the tower that you are operating off of is probably creating a situation that is cutting down the range of an 800 mhz Police portable somewhere... but that is the reality of RF saturation these days.

 

[corbintechboy]

Thanks for the reply.

I understand what you mean. I tried to get back into CB around 2 years ago. I bought my wife and I some cobra radios. We were delivering papers for some extra money, so I figured put one in her car and one in mine. We could not even make the radio trip a distance of 3 miles. So I decided I would go and have them turned up a little. My wife had a cobra 19, they said there was nothing they could do for hers, so I had my 29 turned up. Had galaxy finals installed, and it was turned up as far as it would go. Being as her radio could not be tuned, we decided not to talk to each other while doing papers any more. So I decided to try and get into the local channel thing. That turned out to be a nightmare. All you could hear is some local drunk guy cussing everyone out and talking over everyone who spoke. So I said awww maybe another day, I was wrong, the local channel her remains that way till this day. I can listen to the malarky on my HF radio. We have locals that key up 500 watt kickers to prove who is badder to talk in town. I can not believe this mentality.

When I was into it. I guess it would have been in the timeframe of 1988-1994 or so, we had a group of people who talked on the local channel. We were all friends and we would go bowling and hang out and talk radios and cars, those were the days. I was the youngest in the group of my CB friends, and I liked it because they never treated me like anything less because of my age. We had a lot of good times I will never forget.

But I agree that the days of good radio communication are over. Not only is the signals getting worse, people are not as nice as the used to be. Of course I was raised in Ohio when I started the hobby, but the mentality with the signal problems, make radio no fun anymore. At least for the CB. I still got HF.

 

[Highlander_821]

We had a great group here back around 92-95. Lots of local base stations in our county and several in adjoining counties. We had an 11 meter SSB net every Wednesday, I think the record number was 40 check-ins. We had get-togethers every other Sunday, lots of antenna parties, home brew sessions, study for Tech Ham test, etc. I made freinds that still I still maintain to this day. Some guys bent the rules a little, but nobody took it too far, and there was a general agreement to strongly discourage any puriant language or other questionable on-air activity.

 

[Al42]

SSB transmissions can use 12 watts PEP, thats 3 times more power than the more commonly used AM.

A 4 watt AM signal is putting around 12 watts peak into the sidebands - that's why the 12 watt limit on SSB. It's the same signal.

 

[Al42]

If I am a licensed Ham, and my Cb antenna is used for 10 meter ham (which mine is), does that make it legal? It certainly isn't illegal to have it up there, but I suppose as soon as you hook a CB to it, it is illegal? Disconnect the Cb from the feedline, *poof* it is legal again???? Dumb, dumb, dumb.....

No, the antenna installation isn't illegal - using the antenna on CB is illegal.

 

[Al42]

I just figured you needed to be a licenced Ham to run any kind of power through a CB.

A ham license doesn't give anyone any rights on CB that someone without a ham license doesn't have. The two are about as related as practicing medicine with a driver's license.

 

[KB8UYC]

What we have to remember here is that CB legal power is 4 output(including any kind of "swing") Most people do not operate a CB Legally, that is just the plain truth. The Antron 99 is a good choice. I have one but I inverted the ground plane kit and my receive went crazy!! so I left it like that. Using 4 watts on a antron 99 at 60' should get you out quite a ways, will it get out 30 miles? I doubt it. Sideband is different, anything can happen there.

CB Rules do say that you can go 20 feet above the tallest structure on your property. So if the ower of the sears tower as mentioned above wanted an antron 99 up there, he could put it up there. Chances are though he would not even be able to talk locally because the signal would just pass over all the locals!!

If you are planning on talking locally then any type of base CB antenna will work, The noise level on 27mhz is horriable and getting worse by the day. There is one more way you can guarantee that both of you can talk. If you can put up a tower put up a 50' tower and get a set of beams, Wilson 500's come mind or even a set of Laser 1200's!! Then you will be able to probably talk 30 miles to your buddy, but he would have to have a set of beams too.

Good luck...

Eric

BTW...the better option would be to just get your Amateur Radio License...Then you could talk to him with little or no problems.

 

[CyberWarrior]

As far as I am concerned,Patriot 12 is one giant headache.
No matter what I tried,cannot get rid of the high swr !
The best I have been able to do is 1.8 : 1 on ch 1,as soon as you go to the higher channels
boom,the readings jump to 3.1 : 1 !!! Also if you get a low reading,as soom as you raise the antenna 10' the swr goes trough the roof.