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CB base station antenna grounding question

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JayMojave

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Hello nfernmaays: NO Ground is necessary with that small antenna. If it is mounted to a metal galvanized vent pipe on the roof then its already grounded, or close enough.

That Tram 1499 is such a small antenna, 3 feet or so its no big lightning target. By the way its also the lowest performance antenna out there. Now if you put up a tower and massive big antennas and such, good grounding is a must. I have one of those antennas I use it to stir paint with.

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert
 

nfernaays

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Hello nfernmaays: NO Ground is necessary with that small antenna. If it is mounted to a metal galvanized vent pipe on the roof then its already grounded, or close enough.

That Tram 1499 is such a small antenna, 3 feet or so its no big lightning target. By the way its also the lowest performance antenna out there. Now if you put up a tower and massive big antennas and such, good grounding is a must. I have one of those antennas I use it to stir paint with.

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert

Thank you for the input, i grounded this yesterday and just in time as we had thunderstorms this morning, i don't know if it was necessary but piece of mind was just good enough for me.

I have noticed that performance hasnt been the greatest with the Tram 1499 and i am planning on an antenna upgrade. Possibly the MACO V5000.
 

jonwienke

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Hello nfernmaays: NO Ground is necessary with that small antenna. If it is mounted to a metal galvanized vent pipe on the roof then its already grounded, or close enough.

Ignore this foolishness. The NEC rules exist for a reason, and assuming the vent pipe is properly grounded is extremely unwise.
 

jim202

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Hello nfernmaays: NO Ground is necessary with that small antenna. If it is mounted to a metal galvanized vent pipe on the roof then its already grounded, or close enough.

That Tram 1499 is such a small antenna, 3 feet or so its no big lightning target. By the way its also the lowest performance antenna out there. Now if you put up a tower and massive big antennas and such, good grounding is a must. I have one of those antennas I use it to stir paint with.

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert

What kind of foolishness is this advice to say that the metal vent pipe is "already grounded". How can you even make that statement? You have no idea how it was constructed and if there is even a connection to ground by the pipe. With the way contractors do things these days, this is taking for granted that it was even installed per the plumbing code.

It is way better to lean to the side of safety and be conservative in making sure your antenna installation is grounded per the NEC (National Electrical Code) and run your own grounding system. If you check with your insurance company you will find they also have guidelines regarding grounding of any antennas that are installed on your home or building. Improper grounding could allow your insurance company to not pay a claim for lightning damage. You really don't want to be put into that position for not grounding your antenna the correct way.

Unfortunately, there are a number of people on these web sites that think they know it all. They ignore those of us that have worked in the telecommunication industry for years and have to follow the regulations that are in place to insure both life safety concerns and protection of property.

There have been untold number of postings on just this web site alone that cover proper grounding of antennas mounted on structures of all kinds. A simple search will supply hours of reading on the subject.
 

RFBOSS

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And even if the vent pipe is grounded, it goes inside of the house and the goal is to keep the lighting out of the house.

The amount of energy in a bolt of lightning can truly be staggering (no pun intended, okay maybe...).

You do not want that energy, if possible, to have a path through the walls of your house.
 

bharvey2

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It's very unlikely that a vent pipe would provide a suitable ground especially in a building of newer construction. Much of the newer DWV (Drain/Waste/Vent) assemblies using cast iron would likely be of "no hub" construction) the connection between pipe and components is a neoprene coupler that actually insulates the parts from each other. There is a stainless steel clamp that holds the parts in place that is wrapped around the neoprene coupling but if installed properly, it never comes in contact with the piping. Older cast iron construction methods might use lead (Pb) or oakum to seal the joints but both are poor conductors. As was mentioned above, it would never be a good idea to try to bring any lighting arresting solution into the house.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Connect ground to mount.
Coax is going to your station so run ground wire shortest distance to a ground rod in earth.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
It is also important that the ground be bonded with the existing ground rod that is at the electric meter. The more ground rods the better, but they must tie together at that single point, otherwise lightning current will rise at a different potential (voltage) from one end of the house to another and electronics between will suffer. Giogle and Download a copy of Motorola R56 AND the Polyphazer white paper on grounding and bonding.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 

JayMojave

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Hello All: Wow what a stir I caused with my "No Ground is Necessary" and it isn't!

Remember that Tram Antenna is only 3 Ft or so long......

I got a kick out of the overdone replies, but each to his own. I won't itemize the overdone replies, except the most over done and ridicules one, from EMI/RFI DUDE. To quote the Motorola R56 document over such a small antenna, I find I amusing. Entertainment at its best.

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert Thanks for the e-mails guys
 

jonwienke

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Hello All: Wow what a stir I caused with my "No Ground is Necessary" and it isn't!

Remember that Tram Antenna is only 3 Ft or so long......

Doesn't matter. You're still wrong, and it's still stupid and potentially dangerous advice.
 

prcguy

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Yes this is a fun thread and there is some good and bad advise being thrown around. The little 3ft antenna doesn't need any grounding for RF purposes, and there is little you can do to improve its dismal performance. You can also not ground it sufficiently for it or your radio to survive a direct lightning hit, that's impossible in a home install.

However, you can ground the antenna and make it dangerous as some people have pointed out and that's what NEC is for. If your going to ground it, do it to code at the minimum and that has little to do with lightning and every thing to do with human safety.

As an example, in the 70s I had a CB antenna on the opposite side of the house from my AC entry panel. My 20ft mast attached to the chimney with Hy-Gain Penetrator on top was attached to a ground rod at the base of the chimney. I had a serious problem of the coax for that antenna having about 90VAC on it compared to the grounded wall outlets in my house. I had to wear gloves or be very careful not to touch the house grounded radio case (Pace 1000B heavily modified) otherwise it would nearly knock me on my a$$.

As a coincidence I was visited back then by the FCC, long story, but when they asked me what radio I was using on the night of my infraction, I pointed at the Pace 1000B since it had less mods than other radios laying around. The FCC field engineer promptly disconnected my antenna cable to hook up his equipment and let out a scream and fell back away from the radio as I forgot about the shock problem with that radio. The guy was really pissed off as you could imagine and I now have fond memories of nearly killing an FCC field engineer. In today's world I would probably get sued.

Getting back to the problem, it turns out my ground rod for that antenna was much closer to my neighbors house and AC entry panel, which was oddly fed from another leg of the power system than my house and at a different ground potential. His AC entry panel ground rod was very close to my antenna ground rod and they were at a much closer potential than my own house AC ground. That created some dangerous voltage between my "grounded" CB antenna and the rest of my house.

Legally my ground rod for the CB antenna should have been bonded to my house AC panel ground via the proper size ground wire, which is at least #6 copper according to code. I didn't know about code then and the cost of that much wire would have been too much for my budget anyway at that time.

The moral of my story is you can create a dangerous shock hazard if you ground the wrong way. Not grounding at all would be a safer option in many cases compared to doing it wrong. Some of the complaints of ridiculous and overdone replies to this thread are not ridiculous, they are real and are industry standards as well as meeting code.

For the OP, its your antenna, your house and your safety, if you don't ground the antenna its your choice and for the type of antenna you are using, grounding may not do anything for you. But if you do ground the antenna at least adhere to NEC, and there was at least one link to a good easy to understand way to meet code.
 

Rred

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"'Dsalomon' made a good point also about capping off the disconnected coax from the transceiver/radio."
Or, actually, disconnect the coax from the equipment and then connect it directly to a ground. Preferably at the premises entry but since it is coming in from the roof, compromise may be in order.
You can also simply disconnect the coax and put a voltmeter across it, then watch the voltage levels during a thunderstorm. You may find it is carrying more of a static charge than you think. Of course it can be more fun to connect an old flash bulb to the coax, and watch it flash once the charge on that coax builds up.(G)
 
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