Citizen SIGINT, anyone?

[ScubaJungle]

Can anyone with programming knowledge list some good information/learning sources for creating simple algorithms? I recently got into Linux (thanks to the encouragement of a fellow RR member), and I am liking it a lot.
I am very, very interested in the wide capabilities of utilizing algorithms, for things like this here - spectrum searching, to options trading. I would love to read up on some beginner sources for creating simple algos and make my way into more advanced ones.
For example, I would love to implement an algorithm that will sweep the spectrum and tell me any detected signals that are P25, or search the ADSBexchange for circular flight patterns, etc. I know that this will be quite a task, but I would love to have some sources for starting off small

 

[ScubaJungle]

I am still learning and the landscape is evolving. I went to this link;

webSDR.org

Then landed here which is fascinating as it is a geostationary ham satellite that you can easily tune into. No doppler shift to worry about.

QO-100 / Es'hail-2 Narrowband WebSDR

QO-100 / Es'hail-2 Narrowband WebSDR - by BATC & AMSAT-UK

eshail.batc.org.uk

Here is another:

spyserver status map

airspy.com

The unique thing about this one is the fairly wideband capabilities of many. Many of the people have HF Discoveries, but some also have regular Airspy's. Good addtl site for remote listening

 

[KB2GOM]

Well, color me an embarrassed idiot: neither of my scanners cover the 50-76 Mhz frequency range.

Nuts.

Sorry.

 

[spacellamaman]

yeah ya gotta go specialized a bit. as far as new options, i think the bct-15x and the 436hp are going to be your cheap/availible best bets.

 

[mmckenna]

Well, color me an embarrassed idiot: neither of my scanners cover the 50-76 Mhz frequency range.

Nuts.

Sorry.

Yeah, not much to use to have RX capability above 54MHz. Back "in-the-day" that was analog TV land up to near 72MHz. The LMR stuff between 72-76 is usually pretty boring. Listening to really old low power wireless microphones, clock systems and hobby remote control vehicles is boring. The few point to point audio links in there are usually for linking to remote repeater sites, so usually easier to listen in on the repeater itself. And some of the repeater linking had tone remote superimposed over the top of the audio.
In other countries there is active stuff on 72-76, and some countries even have amateur access to the 4 meter band.

Some good communications receivers will cover all that, but for the average scanner listener, it's pretty well useless.

 

[ScubaJungle]

I suggest a BCD436HP or TRX-1 - you get a wide range as well as DMR and NXDN capabilities (also Provoice if applicable in your area)

 

[ScubaJungle]

Just made a post about a strange signal that I had been seeing, but couldn't decode/figure out what it was. Turns out to be a SCADA / telemetry signal, likely from a nearby electrical or water plant.

Strange paging signal? Need ID Help

I've been getting this signal, which to me seems like some kind of AFSK/paging - sounds like it, and looks like it. However I cant find anything about this, there are several internet posts about this same frequency and same signal, but nobody seems to know what it is. It wont decode in PDW. I...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[dlwtrunked]

What a good idea! How 'bout we talk about strategies for Citizen SIGINT?

For example, are there "blank spots" in the radio spectrum where we might look for signals that aren't supposed to be there?

Or . . . other ideas?

PS -- Thanks to the mods for moving this back.

Many of us have been doing this for decades. Known signals to some (such as police and fire) are relatively boring compared to the unknown of locating, identifying and sometimes decoding the unknown. Those who do that search the entire spectrum that they can--SDRs only made it easier. In my case, monitor ranges from VLF (below 30 kHz) to satellites in the GHz range. Forums are out there for doing this--one place is r/signalidentification on reddit.

 

[KB2GOM]

Many of us have been doing this for decades. Known signals to some (such as police and fire) are relatively boring compared to the unknown of locating, identifying and sometimes decoding the unknown. Those who do that search the entire spectrum that they can--SDRs only made it easier. In my case, monitor ranges from VLF (below 30 kHz) to satellites in the GHz range. Forums are out there for doing this--one place is r/signalidentification on reddit.

Roger that.

I could be curious to know what equipment you use.

 

[KB2GOM]

Just for fun -- Code Name Esquire -- a link to interview I did in 1988 with James Bamford, author of The Puzzle Palace

Monitoring Times May 1988 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Features:Broadcasting Down UnderLive and Let Live (Red Cross)TV DX SeasonWhizbang and WirelessCode Name: EsquireFlying with MAMA

archive.org

 

[KB2GOM]

This is old, but I just found it today. I found it interesting.

A SIGINT report from the RNC

Compiled and submitted by an anonymous donor: 2016 RNC Cleveland, Ohio SIGINT The Republican National Convention was held in Cleveland, OH on July 18-21, 2016. Officials began implementing the secu…

brushbeater.org

 

[danesgs]

I read it on the internet so it must be true!

 

[KB2GOM]

I read it on the internet so it must be true!

Well, honestly, I don't know. What I found was interesting was the huge amount of encrypted comms, which, I guess, is to be expected.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Well, honestly, I don't know. What I found was interesting was the huge amount of encrypted comms, which, I guess, is to be expected.

You would be surprised at the multiple federal discplines that show up at these national conventions looking for "dirty bombs" , IED's etc. Not all from public safety. Scientists etc...

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

That slice of spectrum would be an interesting place to search. Some of the military surplus VHF radios operate in that range, and I've seen some Cheap Chinese radios available that will also.
54-72MHz was Television VHF Low band, not much use there anymore. Channels 2-7(?) if I recall from my younger years.
72-76MHz is an LMR band in the USA, but really only used for point to point audio links and some clock control systems. Used to be some paging in that spectrum, but probably not much any more.

Prepper groups buying up used military VHF radios would probably end up between 30-76MHz, and pretty much anything above 54MHz would be a good place to hide. But…. most of that military stuff is low power.

I have reason to believe that a lot of Paramilitary training operations are going on in NC and some of those are "unsanctioned" groups that don't fit into the "Blackwater" mold. Surplus military gear and CCR's are probably heavily used. I remember when Eric Rudolph was on the run, I was driving some of the back roads in that area and encountered a group of paramilitary types in white Humvees doing a patrol. There is suspicion he had help in staying hidden.

 

[iMONITOR]

Years ago I briefly had a handle of SIGINT here on RR. I thought better of it shortly afterwords and had it changed as I thought it might attract undesirable attention to to RR and myself.

While I like the idea of Citizen SIGINT, I hesitate posting numerous interesting things I monitor as I don't want to contribute to the proliferation of encryption. This is why certain TG's are not allowed on Broadcastify. State and local governments as well as some first responders get nervous if not paranoid when they see postings of a personal nature and something compromising officer safety and that's understandable.

If such a group or forum topic was created should access be limited to Premium members or possibly have a vetting process to prevent Gov, LE, and the media from access?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Making it a Premium Membership access and/or vetting to keep Gov. LE and media from accessing will be futile. Do we want to exclude those folks? There is nothing illegal (or immoral) in anything suggested here.

Would this be useful to Media? Yes.

Am I concerned that Govt/LE is going to knock on my door because I belong to this forum? No, but if I were, that would indicate a political environment where I would be even more vigilant in paying attention to their activities. If ordinary citizens fear direct retribution from their government, something is wrong.

I think the point of Citizens SIGINT is to provide alternative means of gathering information around us during times of crisis. Encryption is indeed becoming widespread and it has more to do with the growth of APCO 25 and FirstNet systems. It has less to do with efforts by anyone on this board, the internet or any other (there are others) hobbyist or professional monitoring forums.

The statewide system where I reside is entirely encrypted, yet there are enthusiasts who monitor simply the activity of the talk groups for purposes of SIGINT. They might not know what is said, but who is talking and where they are talking is apparent.

I have suggested some techniques to directly detect public safety radio operations nearby without using a scanner or when transmissions are encrypted. Often I will be out of earshot when public safety is dispatched to my neighborhood and to my surprise they are setting up down my block. There is technology (see aperiodic receiver s) to detect nearby radio transmissions.

Networks of localized SDR receivers monitoring encrypted talk group activity could indicate to a smartphone APP the emergence of a major event developing. A map could pop up showing increased traffic and a user would know that something is occurring nearby. In my locale, the sound of helicopter activity often sends everyone to Facebook and Nextdoor to ask what is happening.

 

[KB2GOM]

Years ago I briefly had a handle of SIGINT here on RR. I thought better of it shortly afterwords and had it changed as I thought it might attract undesirable attention to to RR and myself.

While I like the idea of Citizen SIGINT, I hesitate posting numerous interesting things I monitor as I don't want to contribute to the proliferation of encryption. This is why certain TG's are not allowed on Broadcastify. State and local governments as well as some first responders get nervous if not paranoid when they see postings of a personal nature and something compromising officer safety and that's understandable.

If such a group or forum topic was created should access be limited to Premium members or possibly have a vetting process to prevent Gov, LE, and the media from access?

Interesting question(s).

Not sure if this sheds any light or not, but I believe that the airwaves belong to everyone, and that we should be free to monitor whatever we want . . . and, if those who are transmitting have security concerns, then they should do whatever they need to do to secure their communications -- but not at the expense of restricting our ability to monitor (as they did with the cell phone frequencies).

 

[iMONITOR]

I'm not to keen on this RAND CORP. They seem to have ulterior motives. Anti-Gun, Climate Change for starters! Too many foreign countries involved.

 

[danesgs]

Making it a Premium Membership access and/or vetting to keep Gov. LE and media from accessing will be futile. Do we want to exclude those folks? There is nothing illegal (or immoral) in anything suggested here.

Would this be useful to Media? Yes.

Am I concerned that Govt/LE is going to knock on my door because I belong to this forum? No, but if I were, that would indicate a political environment where I would be even more vigilant in paying attention to their activities. If ordinary citizens fear direct retribution from their government, something is wrong.

I think the point of Citizens SIGINT is to provide alternative means of gathering information around us during times of crisis. Encryption is indeed becoming widespread and it has more to do with the growth of APCO 25 and FirstNet systems. It has less to do with efforts by anyone on this board, the internet or any other (there are others) hobbyist or professional monitoring forums.

The statewide system where I reside is entirely encrypted, yet there are enthusiasts who monitor simply the activity of the talk groups for purposes of SIGINT. They might not know what is said, but who is talking and where they are talking is apparent.

I have suggested some techniques to directly detect public safety radio operations nearby without using a scanner or when transmissions are encrypted. Often I will be out of earshot when public safety is dispatched to my neighborhood and to my surprise they are setting up down my block. There is technology (see aperiodic receiver s) to detect nearby radio transmissions.

Networks of localized SDR receivers monitoring encrypted talk group activity could indicate to a smartphone APP the emergence of a major event developing. A map could pop up showing increased traffic and a user would know that something is occurring nearby. In my locale, the sound of helicopter activity often sends everyone to Facebook and Nextdoor to ask what is happening.

I agree, with the above. If we get paranoid that Uncle will knock on the door its all gone south by then. The feds monitor this stuff anyway and can tell by the rhetoric who is deemed "worth watching" especially if they also pop up on other radars. I have been listening to stuff for 40 years and also applied to the USSS cause a friend of mine worked for them. Luckily my boss freaked out at Heathkit that I might leave and upped my salary to meet what they could not. With the ways things in general are going, trying to keep ahead of the listeners is a losing game even with encryption. HUMINT is the way to get bad guys more than some person listening in on a unencrypted conversation.

If you are a bad guy nowadays it would take a bank of scanners, a load of programming, a few burner phones and people you can trust to stay ahead of the law. The only issue I have with all that is STINGRAY tracking peoples cell phones during protests, but if you are causing property damage or physical harm to others then so be it. Social media scares me more these days than anything else.