City of Findlay, Ohio to switch to OHIO MARCS by Fall

[AMDXP]

From the Courier dated 5/23/2009

Courier Electronic Edition - Findlay, Ohio: Saturday, May 23, 2009

New radio system hailed

By JOY BROWN

STAFF WRITER


Findlay Mayor Pete Sehnert signed radio contracts Friday that officials say will ultimately save lives, along with already saving city jobs.

Deals were made with Ohio's Multi-Agency Radio Communications System and equipment provider Motorola.

The radio system will allow Findlay city employees to more easily communicate with each other and other emergency personnel in the county, from those at the Hancock County Sheriff's Office to township officials and volunteer firefighters, according to Safety Director Jim Barker.

The system should be working by late fall, officials said.

The 332 Findlay radios will not only be used by safety forces, but by public works employees, thereby setting a state precedent for the system, state program director Darryl Anderson said.

... for more on this article see link at top.

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"Sooner or later, this is going to save taxpayer lives, or police or firefighter ives, or both. Every person will have a radio working and be able to talk to each other as needed. And with them being served by the tower on the highway patrol post (on North Main Street) that's on higher ground, this is really a very, very good fit," Anderson said


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I've posted this article on the News forum, but it's awaiting approval. I've added the above paragraph that I didn't include in that posting. This mentions the "tower on the highway patrol post". the RR database/map does not include that tower as part of the MARCS network. Anybody have any info?

 

[mdulrich]

I've posted this article on the News forum, but it's awaiting approval. I've added the above paragraph that I didn't include in that posting. This mentions the "tower on the highway patrol post". the RR database/map does not include that tower as part of the MARCS network. Anybody have any info?

MARCS have been updating and erecting towers as part of the multi-county initiative in this part of the state that is switching public safety operations to MARCS. From the article it sounds like the current frequencies being used by the Findlay TRS will be turned over for use by MARCS and a voice site will be installed at Findlay OSP.

Mike

 

[AMDXP]

MARCS have been updating and erecting towers as part of the multi-county initiative in this part of the state that is switching public safety operations to MARCS. From the article it sounds like the current frequencies being used by the Findlay TRS will be turned over for use by MARCS and a voice site will be installed at Findlay OSP.

Mike

Actually based on articles in the same paper over the past few weeks have indicated they'll be turning those Frequencies over to Sprint-Nextel. Nextel is giving them $$$ to switch to a new system/frequencies.

 

[mdulrich]

Sprint/Nextel may be paying for the rebanded frequencies and maybe paying for new radios, but it seems rather obvious the new system is going to be MARCS.

Mike

 

[K8TEK]

This is stupid. Why don't they just upgrade their existing Smartnet system.

 

[rdale]

Because they've determined it's cheaper and better for them in the long run to go with MARCS.

What's stupid about the plan?

 

[wa8pyr]

Actually based on articles in the same paper over the past few weeks have indicated they'll be turning those Frequencies over to Sprint-Nextel. Nextel is giving them $$$ to switch to a new system/frequencies.

Incorrect. According to the article they're turning the frequencies over to MARCS. Nextel isn't giving anybody any money for anything other than rebanding, and this really isn't part of that.

I suspect what happened is that Findlay found out some fun facts during rebanding planning:

1. While it probably could have been rebanded, their current system itself may have been old enough (6809 controller and MSF5000 repeaters, probably) that replacement parts were getting hard to find.

2. Many of their radios would be getting replaced during rebanding as they could not be upgraded. Replacement radios can be upgraded to digital for less money than buying new radios.

3. Rebanding their existing system would still have them on an older, separate system from the rest of the county, which is jumping over to MARCS.

So, why not join MARCS? They're getting a price break (free service) for several years in exchange for their frequencies. They're also getting better interoperability, as well as relieving themselves of the expense of licensing and maintaining their own radio system. And they're not losing any capacity; by turning them over to MARCS, those frequencies combined with the MARCS frequencies and sites will actually give Findlay the same or better capacity and better coverage.

 

[AMDXP]

Yep, your right. I totally glossed over that part of the article where it mentions they'll be turning some their frequencies over to MARCS in exchange for an exemption in the user fees (for 4 years).

 

[K8TEK]

Incorrect. According to the article they're turning the frequencies over to MARCS. Nextel isn't giving anybody any money for anything other than rebanding, and this really isn't part of that.

I suspect what happened is that Findlay found out some fun facts during rebanding planning:

1. While it probably could have been rebanded, their current system itself may have been old enough (6809 controller and MSF5000 repeaters, probably) that replacement parts were getting hard to find.

2. Many of their radios would be getting replaced during rebanding as they could not be upgraded. Replacement radios can be upgraded to digital for less money than buying new radios.

3. Rebanding their existing system would still have them on an older, separate system from the rest of the county, which is jumping over to MARCS.

So, why not join MARCS? They're getting a price break (free service) for several years in exchange for their frequencies. They're also getting better interoperability, as well as relieving themselves of the expense of licensing and maintaining their own radio system. And they're not losing any capacity; by turning them over to MARCS, those frequencies combined with the MARCS frequencies and sites will actually give Findlay the same or better capacity and better coverage.

Their current system also has about 100 talkgroups on it. MARCS isn't going to give them that many. Not only that, their current system is an analog only smartnet system. I suspect they are going to need to upgrade (buy new) every one of their radios.

Most of Findlay is going to be running off the BGSU or CAREY tower. BGSU has poor coverage in Findlay and CAREY is so far away it isn't going to be worth a damn indoors. Not to mention the limited resources both zones have. This is a perfect idea, run an entire city off two towers with already taxed resources.

My problem isn't with Findlay doing it, it is with the state allowing it to happen without building up the infrastructure to support it.

 

[ctpd845]

Their current system also has about 100 talkgroups on it. MARCS isn't going to give them that many. Not only that, their current system is an analog only smartnet system. I suspect they are going to need to upgrade (buy new) every one of their radios.

Most of Findlay is going to be running off the BGSU or CAREY tower. BGSU has poor coverage in Findlay and CAREY is so far away it isn't going to be worth a damn indoors. Not to mention the limited resources both zones have. This is a perfect idea, run an entire city off two towers with already taxed resources.

My problem isn't with Findlay doing it, it is with the state allowing it to happen without building up the infrastructure to support it.

Read the article from the OP. Its states that their is going to be a site installed at OSP Dist. 1 HQ.

 

[wa8pyr]

Their current system also has about 100 talkgroups on it. MARCS isn't going to give them that many. Not only that, their current system is an analog only smartnet system. I suspect they are going to need to upgrade (buy new) every one of their radios.

Most of Findlay is going to be running off the BGSU or CAREY tower. BGSU has poor coverage in Findlay and CAREY is so far away it isn't going to be worth a damn indoors. Not to mention the limited resources both zones have. This is a perfect idea, run an entire city off two towers with already taxed resources.

My problem isn't with Findlay doing it, it is with the state allowing it to happen without building up the infrastructure to support it.

Apparently you missed the articles (and the commentary in this thread) where it was explained that a new tower was going to be built in Findlay, to which the Findlay frequencies would be added. Since the current Findlay system is single-site, I think that takes care of your coverage concerns.

As far as talkgroup usage... according to the database, Findlay has 44 talkgroups. Why? If the city can't get by on 16 to 20 talkgroups total, it means they have too many specialized talkgroups, many of which may be infrequently or rarely used. On MARCS they'll have access to any Hancock County talkgroups (probably around 16 or so) as well as their own (another 16 or so), plus all of the common talkgroups available on MARCS (another 30 or so), as well as the capability to roam farther afield than they can now.

Face it, if Delaware County (with 110,000 total population including the City of Delaware and being part of a major metropolitan area) can make do with 100 talkgroups for the entire county, I think Findlay and Hancock County (with 71,000 total population and not being close to a major metro area) can make do with 32 or so plus the MARCS common talkgroups.

 

[jds911]

Just my uneducated 2 cents.... I think this is overall a good move for Findlay. Looking at a 6809 controller coming to the end of its life cycle and seeing a 1+ million dollar upgrade bill just for infrastructure PLUS the cost of subscribers was probably a budget buster. With not only the county but the several in the region moving to digital, eliminating not only the infrastructure costs, but also the annual maintenance that goes with it is a big savings even before the 4 years free service is figured in.

The move has been good for Marysville and Union County for the past several years and served as a good model for communities of similar size.

This is not the best option for every community either because of need, size or use. But in Findlay's case it looks like an excellent fit.

But then again, I am just a casual observer with an opinion shouting into the wind....

 

[mdulrich]

Especially in a city with budget problems.

Mike

 

[wa8pyr]

Just my uneducated 2 cents.... I think this is overall a good move for Findlay. Looking at a 6809 controller coming to the end of its life cycle and seeing a 1+ million dollar upgrade bill just for infrastructure PLUS the cost of subscribers was probably a budget buster. With not only the county but the several in the region moving to digital, eliminating not only the infrastructure costs, but also the annual maintenance that goes with it is a big savings even before the 4 years free service is figured in.

The move has been good for Marysville and Union County for the past several years and served as a good model for communities of similar size.

This is not the best option for every community either because of need, size or use. But in Findlay's case it looks like an excellent fit.

Ditto....

 

[AMDXP]

Given that the county is already in the process of switching to MARCS it makes more sense for Findlay to go there as well.

Right now there are only a few 3200 units using MARCS and I have not heard when the remainder are to be installed into cruisers, though, it is supposed to be this year.

As for the VFD's I haven't heard anything about them either.

I would not be surprised that everything will come together at around the same time that the Findlay MARCS tower goes live. Based on the article itself it sounds like they'll be using the existing tower behind the Findlay OSP District HQ for MARCS.

 

[Hoggy117]

Can anyone tell me what kind of scanner i will need to buy to be able to continue listening to findlay?Im assuming a regular trunking scanner will no longer work. Thanks for your responses.

 

[bpdkop21]

Their current system also has about 100 talkgroups on it. MARCS isn't going to give them that many. Not only that, their current system is an analog only smartnet system. I suspect they are going to need to upgrade (buy new) every one of their radios.

Most of Findlay is going to be running off the BGSU or CAREY tower. BGSU has poor coverage in Findlay and CAREY is so far away it isn't going to be worth a damn indoors. Not to mention the limited resources both zones have. This is a perfect idea, run an entire city off two towers with already taxed resources.

My problem isn't with Findlay doing it, it is with the state allowing it to happen without building up the infrastructure to support it.

You said it! Indoors it is near impossible to get a tower. In Bluffton its a crapshoot between BGSU, Carey and Lima. Hopefully, it works out well for Findlay, I know that we are looking forward to having another overlapping circle of coverage.

 

[hoser147]

Can anyone tell me what kind of scanner i will need to buy to be able to continue listening to findlay?Im assuming a regular trunking scanner will no longer work. Thanks for your responses.

Not to get off thread, been a good discussion on Findlay's needs. Hoggy117 you are going to have to acquire a digital trunking scanner to monitor MARCS. There are several threads and info in the Wiki about them.

 

[ATFD286]

Courier Electronic Edition - Findlay, Ohio: Monday, July 06, 2009

Link to article appearing in The Courier Monday July 6th.

 

[AMDXP]

Yea I read that article, looks like things will be moving quickly in the next 2 months. Assuming they don't run into any trouble. Transition should be interesting.

They may not build a new tower as these frequencies already reside on a transmitter on an 85 ft. tower @ 201 Crystal Ave.

These frequencies are the ones listed in the database that will be transfering over to MARCS:

866.12500 866.48750 867.16250 867.61250c 868.68750c
FCC Callsign WPKV206 Details


As of right now the City of Findlay still owns those frequencies.