City Of New Rochelle switching to P25 digital?

[radioman2001]

That's the radio from NYCTA 1985, and this one seems to be gray face ours was black, but in place of one of the selector switches was another PTT switch which transmitted simplex on whatever the radio had selected. No PL, no scan a very basic radio except for the direct PTT for simplex. Motorla countered in 1986 with a SP MX-340-S with the spring loaded PTT in place of the PL switch, and maybe MDC-600? Gotta look at some of my documentation from that era.

For New Rochelle (White Plains PD, and Greenburg maybe?) an older version GE but not the PR (looks like a HT200 brick), and there is very little documentation for any of the older GE portable radios. Gotta try looking at old LEAA docs if I can find any.

 

[902]

Some years ago (so long ago that I may have hallucinated it) someone told me that one of the departments in Westchester ran HT-200s with VHF and UHF boards in them and that they were repeated, but with a cross-band repeater. Did you ever hear of that? Might have been Yonkers or White Plains.

 

[Bob1955]

Maybe an MPX? That's the one I was thinking of. "Just like an MX, except with a P."

View attachment 69549

We didn't use this MPX. You hit the nail on head on the GE walkie talkies but I don't remember the model numbers. They used Technical Electronics to repair(Garden Street back then) all the radios and voter sites/repeater. I can hear that guy in my sleep, "radio repair to central, on a test, 1, 2 , 3". His accent is in my mind forever.(lol) And one of the best radio room ladies was "Peachie". She is in the "Westchester County Hall Of Fame" not to mention John M. He was on the fire side-KEF-934 to all responding apparatus and car 2302, address of that alarm is...… He always worked the midnight to 8am shift. Back then, everyone used 46.260 and White Plains Fire walked over everyone as they had PL on low band. New Rochelle Fire now tones out on 33.960/CSQ and Operations is 460.4625/167.9

 

[radioman2001]

Yonkers in 1969 had a bastard child HT-200 with a VHF transmitter and a UHF receiver. That was M's way of ensuring they got the contract. They also had VHF/UHF Motrans for mobiles and 275 watt UHF Motrac repeaters with a rat race voter system. That all went away in the late 70's early 80's with MT-500 portables, Mitrek mobiles, and Micor 225 watt repeaters all UHF, and the leftover VHF channels became street crime. Yonkers PD had their own radio shop for day to day stuff, but the contract took care of all the infrastructure. 1994-95 saw them go digital VSELP Astro Sabers and Astro Spectras. Now P-25 encrypted, I guess the stand up shouting match about "E" and ComSec that cleared the radio room I had with the radio Captain has finally come to pass, nearly 40 years later. "E" doesn't make you safer in just gives you a false sense of security.

Back in the 70's there was a push to move all paging to 33.96 Countywide to lessen the radio traffic for operations as Westchester only had 2 channels and one was used exclusivly for the County Fire Co-ordinators. Most departments balked for 2 reasons, it required all new alerting radios, which ran about $300.00 back then ($3000.00 in todays money) and you couldn't hear what was going on after the dispatch.

I am not giving up I will find a picture of the radios White Plains and New Rochelle used from the LEAA grant. I just have to find the actual bid award I have put away somewhere.

 

[902]

Problem with fireground over the same channel you're dispatched from, no matter what frequency you're on, is that someone has to send the tones for a second alarm (or another call) while the first-due company is trying to effect a knock-down. They get clobbered on the radio by tones and no one can hear them call for help if they need it. That's why NFPA 1221 codified a separate frequency. Whoever thought that up was way ahead of their time.

Gotta love creative radio and SPs! I used to love the Port Authority heads that would also select PL and frequency with pushbuttons for the control head.

 

[radioman2001]

The great IBM fire of 1971 saw that exact problem. IBM's distribution center in Hawthorne with over 100,000 square feet of stacked paper 10 ft high caught fire. I don't believe it was ever determined how, but once the ceilings started coming down we got pulled out. Now of course right in the middle of operations with 13 or so Fire Companies you have White Plains doing their 10am radio test. The County Co-ordinators were not happy and I believe they ordered White Plains off the air for radio checks for the entire week we fought that fire. It took the Westchester Airport crash crew to go in with their silver suits to at least try and get it under control. Very dangerous when you are try to talk to a crew on a portable and a 350 low band station is talking over you because they didn't disable the PL and monitor.

 

[radioman2001]

I found it they were GE PE/PY in VHF for New Rochelle UHF for White Plains.

Lot x3 General Electric GE Hi-Power MASTR 2-Ch Handheld Two-Way Radio 66TBMBHX | eBay

VINTAGE GE MASTR Progress Line PE/PY Two Way FM Radio LBI-4231G Operating MANUAL | eBay

 

[Ant9270]

I found it they were GE PE/PY in VHF for New Rochelle UHF for White Plains.

Lot x3 General Electric GE Hi-Power MASTR 2-Ch Handheld Two-Way Radio 66TBMBHX | eBay

VINTAGE GE MASTR Progress Line PE/PY Two Way FM Radio LBI-4231G Operating MANUAL | eBay

That’s them! I have one somewhere. No crystals or charger though.

 

[CqDx]

Back to year 2019, there is an FCC application for 159.015 MHz with P25 designators, the service area extends to Long Island Sound.

Right now the following frequencies have P25 designators:
154.815
155.13
155.31
155.37

 

[Bob1955]

Archie-I'm thinking voice inversion on UHF for detectives. Their current signal is not good around this area with low audio on 155.130/100.0 but Ansky stated that he hears it 30 miles away in New Jersey. Go figure. I used to work for the City Of New Rochelle Police and I'm now hearing that the start date for their new digital system is 3/1/19. I'm going to go into headquarters over the next day or so and or talk to some of the officers on Facebook.

Update: New Rochelle has really fixed their LOW audio problems and now the projected change over to P-25 is 8/19.

 

[Bob1955]

Back to year 2019, there is an FCC application for 159.015 MHz with P25 designators, the service area extends to Long Island Sound.

Right now the following frequencies have P25 designators:
154.815
155.13
155.31
155.37

CqDx, Thank you for the above information. As we speak, Westchester County, NY is working on a new P-25 Digital system that will also replace WCDES on Motorola Smart Zone ll and I'm hearing that this will be done in 2021.
Have a nice Tuesday.

 

[CqDx]

CqDx, Thank you for the above information. As we speak, Westchester County, NY is working on a new P-25 Digital system that will also replace WCDES on Motorola Smart Zone ll and I'm hearing that this will be done in 2021.
Have a nice Tuesday.

Hi,

Thank you, my understanding is the VHF F1/F2 replacement will take place earlier before 2020, and the trunked system replacement is further down the road depending on the outcome of T band giveback.

 

[Bob1955]

Hi,

Thank you, my understanding is the VHF F1/F2 replacement will take place earlier before 2020, and the trunked system replacement is further down the road depending on the outcome of T band giveback.

CqDx, I used to work for New Rochelle Police back in the late 70's. I haven't had time to drop by to see the police commissioner as I worked with him way back when he was in TPU Team B. I wasn't a LEO, but rather traffic and parking division.
I'm with Eastchester Fire Department and we have our own frequency but the trunking system now in Westchester County is out-dated believe it or not, has a lot of dead spots and is shared with Bee-Line and Liberty Line buses but they have different TGID's.
Most everything here in this country with about (2) exceptions or so is analog.

 

[radioman2001]

Subquote"
trunking system now in Westchester County is out-dated believe it or not, has a lot of dead spots and is shared with Bee-Line and Liberty Line buses but they have different TGID's.

What's outdated about, just because it's not digital. Digital has no place in Fire service, and there is enough data to back it up. Even FDNY and NYPD have elected to stay analog for inter-agency comms. I have never heard of a single busy due to overloading of this system because of the buses. Yes there are some dead spots, but that should have been brought up when the system was accepted, and could be corrected with addditional receiver sites. Even on the projected new 700 system the buses will still be on it.

My understanding (From Chiefs meeting) Westchester County Fire will remain on the 470, WCPD will move over to it (there a lot of trunked radio's in the WCDES fleet now) from the VHF 155.310/155.55 channels. The original gurantee for this system was 99% coverage with mobile and 95% with portable.
The new 700 system will host the Bee Line buses moved from the 470 and any other agency that wants to go on. The FD was adamant about not moving to 700 as the 470 works fine and is not digital. I can see this as a form of beta testing by the buses and other agencies before you move emergency services to it. Again I don't see 470 going anywhere, as there are way too many systems on it and the move now to repeal that part of the taxpayer act. It's unfortunate that Rockland bailed on the 470 band.

I wonder how the County is going to handle 155.310 and .370 going digital since it's the county main and county wide inter-agency channel.

 

[Bob1955]

Subquote"
trunking system now in Westchester County is out-dated believe it or not, has a lot of dead spots and is shared with Bee-Line and Liberty Line buses but they have different TGID's.

What's outdated about, just because it's not digital. Digital has no place in Fire service, and there is enough data to back it up. Even FDNY and NYPD have elected to stay analog for inter-agency comms. I have never heard of a single busy due to overloading of this system because of the buses. Yes there are some dead spots, but that should have been brought up when the system was accepted, and could be corrected with addditional receiver sites. Even on the projected new 700 system the buses will still be on it.

My understanding (From Chiefs meeting) Westchester County Fire will remain on the 470, WCPD will move over to it (there a lot of trunked radio's in the WCDES fleet now) from the VHF 155.310/155.55 channels. The original gurantee for this system was 99% coverage with mobile and 95% with portable.
The new 700 system will host the Bee Line buses moved from the 470 and any other agency that wants to go on. The FD was adamant about not moving to 700 as the 470 works fine and is not digital. I can see this as a form of beta testing by the buses and other agencies before you move emergency services to it. Again I don't see 470 going anywhere, as there are way too many systems on it and the move now to repeal that part of the taxpayer act. It's unfortunate that Rockland bailed on the 470 band.

I wonder how the County is going to handle 155.310 and .370 going digital since it's the county main and county wide inter-agency channel.

 

[Bob1955]

radioman2001, Very well written.
I'll be shocked when 155.310/155.550 Westchester County Police goes digital. I don't see that happening too soon. You are MORE armed with information then me and I'm in the fire service.
I was up to Danbury, CT yesterday and saw their headquarters and equipment. Then Brookfield, CT had a working structure fire. They sent one rig from another one of their 8 fire stations. They are all UHF up there including Danbury Police, Brookfield Police and fire too. New Milford is Litchfield County and their police is P-25 but fire is analog. I love seeing other departments equipment. When a Volunteer Firefighters starts, they get a brand new UHF Motorola 2-way walkie talkie. That is UN-HEARD of down here. All they want to do here is GET RID of the volunteer firefighters.
Anyhow, I'm getting off subject.
Hope to hear back from you. Feel free to private message me anytime.

 

[Ant9270]

It has been said in the PowerPoint listed on the county DES website that County PD will be switching over to either 7/800 P25 system, or T-BAND P25 P2 system depending on what happens. They will also welcome local PDs onto the system.

 

[GTR8000]

It's unfortunate that Rockland bailed on the 470 band.

There is absolutely nothing "unfortunate" about Rockland "bailing" on 470, I assure you. The 700 MHz P25 system has performed remarkably well for the past six years with zero failures and so few complaints about coverage issues over those same six years, that they're not even worth mentioning. Besides which the county was extremely proactive and responsive to any coverage issues, adding two additional subsites to the system and installing multiple BDA/DAS to enhance coverage where needed.

Anyone who actually understands the long history of the Rockland system would know that the decision to switch from T-Band to 700 MHz was made early on in the planning, back around 2008-2009 before the whole "giveback" was even conceived of. The facts (those still matter, right?) are that the county was having a tough time getting licensed for all of the T-Band frequencies at all of the subsites (physical locations), and so a true single-cell countywide simulcast would've been difficult or impossible to achieve. Contrast that with the fact (pesky things!) that Region 8 had allocated ten full power protected frequencies for use anywhere inside and within a reasonable distance just outside the county, and it made the decision quite easy. Of course that move seems fortuitous at this point, given the uncertainty with the T-Band giveback. While other counties and agencies throughout the metro area are in limbo with regard to their current T-Band infrastructure, Rockland has only one frequency to be concerned about...Fire Paging 470.800.

PS - Westchester will be building out a T-Band P25 system to replace the current analog Motorola 3600 system, so it's going to be digital regardless of whether users remain on T-Band or migrate to 700 MHz. The Motorola 3600 4.x system is EOL, so regardless of whether it is "outdated" or not, it's certainly no longer supported.

 

[Bob1955]

There is absolutely nothing "unfortunate" about Rockland "bailing" on 470, I assure you. The 700 MHz P25 system has performed remarkably well for the past six years with zero failures and so few complaints about coverage issues over those same six years, that they're not even worth mentioning. Besides which the county was extremely proactive and responsive to any coverage issues, adding two additional subsites to the system and installing multiple BDA/DAS to enhance coverage where needed.

Anyone who actually understands the long history of the Rockland system would know that the decision to switch from T-Band to 700 MHz was made early on in the planning, back around 2008-2009 before the whole "giveback" was even conceived of. The facts (those still matter, right?) are that the county was having a tough time getting licensed for all of the T-Band frequencies at all of the subsites (physical locations), and so a true single-cell countywide simulcast would've been difficult or impossible to achieve. Contrast that with the fact (pesky things!) that Region 8 had allocated ten full power protected frequencies for use anywhere inside and within a reasonable distance just outside the county, and it made the decision quite easy. Of course that move seems fortuitous at this point, given the uncertainty with the T-Band giveback. While other counties and agencies throughout the metro area are in limbo with regard to their current T-Band infrastructure, Rockland has only one frequency to be concerned about...Fire Paging 470.800.

PS - Westchester will be building out a T-Band P25 system to replace the current analog Motorola 3600 system, so it's going to be digital regardless of whether users remain on T-Band or migrate to 700 MHz. The Motorola 3600 4.x system is EOL, so regardless of whether it is "outdated" or not, it's certainly no longer supported.

GTR800, Very well written and Rockland County Fire sounds great on broadcastify too. I'm well aware that Motorola Smart Zone ll is no longer supported.

 

[radioman2001]

https://emergencyservices.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Update2.1.19.pdf

That might be the counties plan, but some in the Fire service are not happy, and might make other plans.

To go off topic a bit in my Fire Department any new Interior FF gets a new Mot (VERTEX) radio as part of their issued equipment. This is something I pushed for in 1995 when I joined, I showed by having my own radio that having a radio for each Interior FF member made the teams safer. We started with personell buying their own and those radios being qualified by the department, then with 6 radios on a Engine and now 20 plus years later, we have a Chief that pushed it through for individual radios.