Columbia County Digital TRS

[MTS2000des]

I've scoured both the Astro 25 mobile and portable CPS and can't seem to figure out how to convince it to let me set it for no affiliation.

Because Motorola subscriber radios don't have the option- period. What Motorola did do back in HOST release 19 of Astro 25 firmware is provide an option to make a trunked personality "Receive only" but the radio will still register and have to be provisioned in PM as a "listen only" radio. The user is forbidden from making PTT calls, but can listen on any talkgroup in the personality. This was meant for media radios, training, etc. If the ID is not validated, the radio will not unmute on any talkgroup. It will still perform regular mobility updates (talkgroup changes), let the core know when the user goes into/out of scan, turns on, off etc like any other "talking" subscriber would.

But at the end of the day, no official way to have a Motorola Astro 25/APX subscriber radio NOT affiliate. Now there are advanced methods of using talkgroup scan to passively monitor, but they are for advances users, and still require a system key, get one thing wrong, and one can be facing potentially life changing consequences.

 

[N8IAA]

Well, Amrocks is lurking, but not posting. He must not like what is being said in this thread:lol:
Larry

 

[AMROCKS]

Well, Amrocks is lurking, but not posting. He must not like what is being said in this thread:lol:
Larry

Its not a matter of if I "like" what is being said its a matter of negative thinking. There IS a way of doing this! we just haven't figured it out yet... You guys don't seem very hopeful but I know for sure it will be defeated. Its just a matter of when.

 

[AMROCKS]

I don't understand why you would need to affiliate a RX only radio? The RF and data is being broadcasted. We just need to take that data and turn it into usable data. I have a way of getting the key/keys I just need to figure out how to apply the keys to decipher the data. All this talk about breaking laws is crazy. Its only an issue if you are transmitting on their system. There are no laws against listening to municipal transmissions even if encrypted. They know that if they make it difficult to listen then they can keep average joe from doing so. They are only trying to keep average Joe criminal from gaining an edge while committing a crime (which is understandable). But on the other hand there is an argument for needing to hear their transmissions as a public safety concern.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Its not a matter of if I "like" what is being said its a matter of negative thinking. There IS a way of doing this! we just haven't figured it out yet... You guys don't seem very hopeful but I know for sure it will be defeated. Its just a matter of when.

And when that happens, they will already be usi g the next new, more secure encryption. Kinda what happened with DES.

 

[SCPD]

MTS2000des... you made my point. I was stating that, tongue in cheek, to point out that it couldn't be done without the radio affiliating on the system. Some people don't understand that, although a person doesn't push the PTT button to transmit, the radio transmits when it affiliates. The moment the radio affiliates, without permission from the system admin, the person that is using that radio just transmitted, illegally, on a TRS/law enforcement frequency.

NO way to program a current radio, that I know of, to passively be used on the PAL800 or Columbia County TRS as if it were an off the shelf scanner. That's why I stated, in an earlier post, that I would be VERY interested in how it could be accomplished. I'm especially interested in how the encrypted Columbia County TRS can be monitored by using some off the shelf software, hardware, etc., without knowing the encryption key.

AMROCKS... although you don't understand why a radio needs to affiliate to be a RX only radio just know that it needs to. In order for the radio to "trunk track" properly it has to affiliate, with a legitimate ID, to be able to receive data from a data control channel so it can follow each TG appropriately. There are probably older radios that could do this, in the past or on older systems, but it can't be done on the PAL800 or Columbia County TRS. If you can figure out a way to do it then please share with us.

The final point is this, and not being negative as some people believe, the Columbia County TRS CANNOT be monitored, in it's current state, by using some magical means. IMHO, there's no reason for any further debate on this subject.

 

[SCPD]

AMROCKS said; "The RF and data is being broadcasted. We just need to take that data and turn it into usable data. I have a way of getting the key/keys I just need to figure out how to apply the keys to decipher the data. All this talk about breaking laws is crazy."
Again, as I asked in an earlier post, a "key" is something used to encode/decode something that's encrypted. What "keys" are you speaking of? The encryption keys? If you have access to those then you would be in "the know" and wouldn't be asking how to monitor the system the way you want to. And yes, it is illegal to to decrypt an encrypted tranmission, in the U.S., but not illegal to listen to it in it's encrypted form. What data are you wanting to decipher? The control channel data? That data is already usable if you have a radio and permission to be on their system... nothing to "decipher" really.

I was an Intermediate Signals Analyst when I was in the U.S. Army, MOS 98K30 with a K9 and M7 additional skill identifier. I cut my teeth on voice encryption systems while stationed in Berlin, Germany. I've "looked" at DES, KY-57 Vinson, and numerous other foreign encryption systems. I can tell you this, you're not going to be able to easily decrypt any DES, AES, etc., using anything simple and off the shelf. If it was that easy the NSA would have been out of business yesterday.

 

[Jaxco]

AMROCKS said; "The RF and data is being broadcasted. We just need to take that data and turn it into usable data. I have a way of getting the key/keys I just need to figure out how to apply the keys to decipher the data. All this talk about breaking laws is crazy."
Again, as I asked in an earlier post, a "key" is something used to encode/decode something that's encrypted. What "keys" are you speaking of? The encryption keys? If you have access to those then you would be in "the know" and wouldn't be asking how to monitor the system the way you want to. And yes, it is illegal to to decrypt an encrypted tranmission, in the U.S., but not illegal to listen to it in it's encrypted form. What data are you wanting to decipher? The control channel data? That data is already usable if you have a radio and permission to be on their system... nothing to "decipher" really.

I was an Intermediate Signals Analyst when I was in the U.S. Army, MOS 98K30 with a K9 and M7 additional skill identifier. I cut my teeth on voice encryption systems while stationed in Berlin, Germany. I've "looked" at DES, KY-57 Vinson, and numerous other foreign encryption systems. I can tell you this, you're not going to be able to easily decrypt any DES, AES, etc., using anything simple and off the shelf. If it was that easy the NSA would have been out of business yesterday.

Derek if you ever get this problem solved, let me know... It has been awhile but you know me from the 145.490 repeater, we have a mutual friend, KE4PKB...

 

[nbarco]

Grovetown Public Safety

Grovetown Police and Fire are both on the Columbia TRS system now. After investing in a Nexedge system just a couple of years ago...hmmm

 

[Ryangn]

I knew Harlem was moving to their system but didn't know Grovetown was also. Thanks for the update!

 

[nbarco]

Yep...confirmed...not sure if Columbia County is in the clear...!

 

[nbarco]

As far as fire...I know SD is encrypted

 

[Ryangn]

I figured fire finally changed over cause I haven't heard a peep out of them in quit some time. I know that was on the drawing board for a while now. I don't have a phase II scanner so I don't know who may or may not be encrypting. I figured if the only phase II around is encrypted might as well wait on a new scanner but if fire, Harlem and/or Grovetown choose not to encrypt then I may have to rethink. However since Columbia County is completely taking over Harlem's dispatch I am sure they will be encrypted. Just out of curiosity do you know if Grovetown is just moving to the county's system or are they having the county take over their dispatch as well?

 

[nbarco]

From the traffic I heard coming out of the GT officers in a restaurant the other day, they wet on a CC main dispatch channel. So I am sailing they are dispatching. I would think that they would maintain a dispatcher for checks and car 2 car on a secondary channel. I will monitor their channels when I get a chance to program my scanner and see what I can come up with.