Coming to Newfoundland!

[bruddy]

Jay, I'm a Newfie from the Clarenville area and i've read some of your threads in the forums and i'm trying to get back into Radio Scanning and can you answer a question for me, i have three RS scanners but since the RCMP went digital i have slowed down using my scanners. What can i buy to be able to listen to them once again, would it be the Homepatrol1 radio or what would you suggest.

Thanks

Morgan

 

[primehifi]

Jay, I'm a Newfie from the Clarenville area and i've read some of your threads in the forums and i'm trying to get back into Radio Scanning and can you answer a question for me, i have three RS scanners but since the RCMP went digital i have slowed down using my scanners. What can i buy to be able to listen to them once again, would it be the Homepatrol1 radio or what would you suggest.

Thanks

Morgan

If you've used scanners before you might find the homepatrol has a huge learning curve, it would however get you up and running the quickest and it's the easiest for the wife to use as well, if you're the type to just leave it out in the kitchen for all to hear .

You could consider the 996 and 396. They'd likely be more up your alley. IMO the HP is a major switch in how your brain uses a scanner. Once you get through the learning curve it's a fantastic scanner though, just the logic is completely different from a regular scanner in many ways.

 

[Jay911]

Primehifi's information is good. You have a choice between the Uniden 396 and 996 (XT) scanners, the HomePatrol, and GRE models PSR-500, 600, and 800. (There are RS equivalents to the GRE models but I'm not 100% sure what they are.) In Clarenville, the RCMP is pretty much "standard" P25 trunking digital so any of the above should work for you. The HP1 might be a bit of overkill, not to mention different than any other scanner out there, like Primehifi says.

If you are fixed in one location, a base model might be preferable like the Uniden BCD996XT or the GRE PSR-600C. If you'd like to carry it around with you, the Uniden BCD396XT or the GRE PSR-500C is a better choice.

The GRE PSR-800 and the Uniden HomePatrol-1 both have all of North America's frequency info stored on a data card inside the radio, but it's only as good as what's submitted to the RadioReference database (here on this site). Clarenville RCMP is in there, as is RCMP for other areas around you, but with these two scanners you have to either keep telling it what area you're in (if you're moving) or switch off and on different areas as you move about. - Unless you buy a compatible GPS device and plug it in to the HP1, and then it will switch things off and on for you as you move into their coverage areas.

Hope this helps!

 

[primehifi]

- Unless you buy a compatible GPS device and plug it in to the HP1, and then it will switch things off and on for you as you move into their coverage areas.

With the homepatrol the best way to use it is by using favorites lists instead of the DB. You'll need the Arc Patrol software and the homepatrol extreme update but once you have those you can turn it (the home partrol) back into a regular style scanner again, in some regards.

Frankly, a lot of the NL DB is incorrect anyway with a lot of the conventional freqs modulation incorrect (fm when it should be am for example).

Using the favorites lists makes it much easier to control what you listen to and gives the ability to quickly flick a group on. For example, I like having the Fire Departments scanning full time but really do not need to here EMS ever (it's just sad and a little too nosy). But, in the DB EMS and Fire are grouped as one. Now, I can use the DB on the HP and "avoid" the EMS but then if I need to turn on EMS for some reason I have to wade through the avoids on the HP and unavoid them. This is tedious. So, I created two favorites lists one of Fire and one from EMS. EMS stays off most of the time but fire remains on always. Plus then I could correct the erroneous modulation entries in the db and change the names of things. FYI, you cannot edit DB entries unless you add them as favorites. So, for example in the DB for RCMP on the edacs analog site, talkgroup 529 04-021 A RCMPBELLIS Bell Island Is NOT actually "bell island" but is in fact the talk group used for Ferryland, Bay Bulls (southern shore), etc. and Bell Island. Really, it's Avalon East. The update was submitted to the DB but it'll take a long time to update. So I just changed it in the RCMP fav list on my home patrol, the same as you would a normal scanner.

Further, you can then edit your entries in the favorites lists further to adjust the "range" so that those frequencies will never be shut off (or input the info for missing DB entries).

If you're confused, welcome to the first week ownership of a home patrol 1

Back on topic of Newfoundland.

Jay just noticed 662 05-026 A RCMP Pr Chat RCMP Provincewide Chat (patched to P25 TG 662) Interop

This is actually just a travel channel. The only comms on that talkgroup ever are police checking during travel on the highway. They don't use it for "chat" just status checks for officers doing long travel across the highway. :-/

 

[Jay911]

With the homepatrol the best way to use it is by using favorites lists instead of the DB. You'll need the Arc Patrol software and the homepatrol extreme update but once you have those you can turn it (the home partrol) back into a regular style scanner again, in some regards.

Frankly, a lot of the NL DB is incorrect anyway with a lot of the conventional freqs modulation incorrect (fm when it should be am for example).

Using the favorites lists makes it much easier to control what you listen to and gives the ability to quickly flick a group on. For example, I like having the Fire Departments scanning full time but really do not need to here EMS ever (it's just sad and a little too nosy). But, in the DB EMS and Fire are grouped as one. Now, I can use the DB on the HP and "avoid" the EMS but then if I need to turn on EMS for some reason I have to wade through the avoids on the HP and unavoid them. This is tedious. So, I created two favorites lists one of Fire and one from EMS. EMS stays off most of the time but fire remains on always. Plus then I could correct the erroneous modulation entries in the db and change the names of things. FYI, you cannot edit DB entries unless you add them as favorites. So, for example in the DB for RCMP on the edacs analog site, talkgroup 529 04-021 A RCMPBELLIS Bell Island Is NOT actually "bell island" but is in fact the talk group used for Ferryland, Bay Bulls (southern shore), etc. and Bell Island. Really, it's Avalon East. The update was submitted to the DB but it'll take a long time to update. So I just changed it in the RCMP fav list on my home patrol, the same as you would a normal scanner.

Further, you can then edit your entries in the favorites lists further to adjust the "range" so that those frequencies will never be shut off (or input the info for missing DB entries).

If you're confused, welcome to the first week ownership of a home patrol 1

Back on topic of Newfoundland.

Jay just noticed 662 05-026 A RCMP Pr Chat RCMP Provincewide Chat (patched to P25 TG 662) Interop

This is actually just a travel channel. The only comms on that talkgroup ever are police checking during travel on the highway. They don't use it for "chat" just status checks for officers doing long travel across the highway. :-/

I agree that favorites lists are the way to go. Ninety-nine percent of the time, I run without the full DB enabled. However, you definitely don't need ARC Patrol. I get along just fine with Sentinel and can manipulate and twist the data any way I please.

If you see stuff that is incorrect in the DB, though, the only way that gets dealt with is to notify the DB admins of the needed corrections by clicking on "Submit" directly above the system or "county" name.

The reason that particular talkgroup is listed as Bell Island is because several years ago when I first tracked and submitted it, the dispatcher calling for a Bell Island car was the only transmission I could identify as having a location attached to it. Yes, it's evident in newer and more recent comms that the channels are much more regional in nature, but unless somebody with the knowledge of what those regions are chooses to submit things, the odds of the DB changing are slim.

As for TG 662, I have heard more than just status checks on both those channels (EDACS 662 and P25 662) - yes, 1095s have been done on there, but I definitely heard two units having a discussion on there at one point. Again, if there's anything that needs fixing, go ahead and submit it.

Lastly, the conventional stuff - I found and requested to be fixed one singular channel which was somehow set FM instead of AM (you have to work pretty hard to do this, or at least you did when I was a DB admin years ago - the system knows which frequency bands are AM and which are FM and usually tries to assume the right one). As for other "incorrect" conventional data, the DB is only as good as its contributors. If you see something that needs changing, get it changed.

I have a literal ton of stuff I still haven't submitted from my late summer trip, mainly because categorizing it takes time that I haven't had. I'm off work today - maybe I'll work on it a bit this afternoon.

 

[primehifi]

I agree that favorites lists are the way to go. Ninety-nine percent of the time, I run without the full DB enabled. However, you definitely don't need ARC Patrol. I get along just fine with Sentinel and can manipulate and twist the data any way I please.

If you see stuff that is incorrect in the DB, though, the only way that gets dealt with is to notify the DB admins of the needed corrections by clicking on "Submit" directly above the system or "county" name.

The reason that particular talkgroup is listed as Bell Island is because several years ago when I first tracked and submitted it, the dispatcher calling for a Bell Island car was the only transmission I could identify as having a location attached to it. Yes, it's evident in newer and more recent comms that the channels are much more regional in nature, but unless somebody with the knowledge of what those regions are chooses to submit things, the odds of the DB changing are slim.

As for TG 662, I have heard more than just status checks on both those channels (EDACS 662 and P25 662) - yes, 1095s have been done on there, but I definitely heard two units having a discussion on there at one point. Again, if there's anything that needs fixing, go ahead and submit it.

Lastly, the conventional stuff - I found and requested to be fixed one singular channel which was somehow set FM instead of AM (you have to work pretty hard to do this, or at least you did when I was a DB admin years ago - the system knows which frequency bands are AM and which are FM and usually tries to assume the right one). As for other "incorrect" conventional data, the DB is only as good as its contributors. If you see something that needs changing, get it changed.

I have a literal ton of stuff I still haven't submitted from my late summer trip, mainly because categorizing it takes time that I haven't had. I'm off work today - maybe I'll work on it a bit this afternoon.

Yeah, As I get freed up from the summer workload I'm planning to get into submitting to the DB. There's a lot of listenable sites in town not on the DB such as St. Clare's Hospital Security for example. The sheriffs office is another. I was unable to scan them after moving further from town but now that I have my antenna mounted I'm pulling them in again. I submitted the changes for bell island and Conception Bay which should be tri-con (trinity conception) to be more accurate. Hopefully more will come.

I totally get why that one TG was Bell Island. it's a blessing that you've inputted so much data for NL here on your trips and I know why some things get entered incorrectly, well, not incorrect. That's the wrong way to put it. More like, inaccurately

That 662 group for RCMP, I too have heard "chatter" but generally aside from the status checks it's been one police checking in on another police to see "how is drive is" or what the snow is like.

Being on the east side of the island, all I'm likely to hear is travel stuff from when an east coast RCMP member is making a journey from the east side of the island to the west. Perhaps they're using this as a more informal comms channel on the p25 network on the rest of the island?

Will say this, you did a great job on the St. John's Public Works Talkgroups, they're spot on. During off hours of the day, they all tend to default to 0-03-002 A Recycling Garbage/Recycling Services , but that's just cause they're lazy and not because the talkgroup is mislabeled.

 

[jlo]

what the freq;s

hey prime
what are freq's for the sheriffs office and security did you submit them

 

[primehifi]

hey prime
what are freq's for the sheriffs office and security did you submit them

SHERIFFS OFFICE 463.2625 131.8
ST CLR HSP SEC 460.8375 Search

St. Clare it not confirmed, but 75% certain. TAFL shows it as Eastern Health and also St. Clare's. Could just be a common freq for local hospitals. I have no idea.

Sheriffs is confirmed. TAFL shows it as a Gov NL freq but listening has confirmed this.

 

[Jay911]

So I've finally figured out some of the P25 trunking control message formats and one of the ones that eluded me in Newfoundland has been deciphered. I now know what the neighbor sites are for the sites I monitored on the P25 system!

Please note: the site names are not 100% confirmed in any of my data, it's just the largest place I was nearest to when the signal was strongest. Of course in some situations like in Gander it's got to be right, but I fully concede that the site I've named for example "Norris Arm" may not be actually named for that town. It's just strongest in that locale.

RFSS/Site 11-01 (Deer Lake) has the following adjacent sites:
10-01 (Corner Brook) 160.2 CC
13-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.82 CC
14-01 (Birchy Lake) 161.49 CC
(That CC for RFSS 14 is one I've never seen before... Not sure on it...)

RFSS/Site 28-01 (Grand Falls/Windsor) has the following adjacent sites:
26-01 (UNKNOWN) 160.59 CC
27-01 (Badger?) 155.82 CC
29-01 (Green Bay South/South Brook?) 153.29 CC
30-01 (Springdale?) 155.28 CC
31-01 (Norris Arm) 155.88 CC
34-01 (Lewisporte) 155.4 CC
(26-01 might be Port aux Basques according to previous info in this thread and forum)

RFSS/Site 31-01 (Norris Arm) has the following adjacent sites:
30-01 (Springdale?) 155.28 CC
32-01 (Appleton/Glenwood) 155.28 CC
34-01 (Lewisporte) 155.4 CC
35-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.82 CC

RFSS/Site 33-01 (Gander) has the following adjacent sites:
32-01 (Appleton/Glenwood) 155.28 CC
34-01 (Lewisporte) 155.4 CC
35-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.82 CC
36-01 (Musgrave Harbour) 155.97 CC
37-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.7 CC
38-01 (Terra Nova Park?) 155.34 CC
50-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.28 CC
(That last one I would count as bad data, but it appears several times.. I think it's real)

RFSS/Site 34-01 (Lewisporte) has the following adjacent sites:
31-01 (Norris Arm) 155.88 CC
33-01 (Gander) 155.64 CC
35-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.82 CC
36-01 (Musgrave Harbour) 155.97 CC

RFSS/Site 35-01 (Unknown location - I never knew I tracked this one!) has the following adjacent sites:
31-01 (Norris Arm) 155.88 CC
33-01 (Gander) 160.485 CC
34-01 (Lewisporte) 155.4 CC
36-01 (Musgrave Harbour) 155.97 CC
(Note that the Gander CC must have rotated to the alternate freq when I was monitoring this site)

RFSS/Site 36-01 (Musgrave Harbour) has the following adjacent sites:
33-01 (Gander) 155.64 CC
34-01 (Lewisporte) 155.4 CC
35-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.82 CC
36-01 (Musgrave Harbour) 155.97 CC
37-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.7 CC

RFSS/Site 38-01 (Terra Nova Park) has the following adjacent sites:
33-01 (Gander) 155.64 CC
37-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.7 CC
41-01 (Clarenville) 155.97 CC
48-01 (Eastport) 155.88 CC
49-01 (Port Blandford) 155.58 CC

RFSS/Site 41-01 (Clarenville) has the following adjacent sites:
38-01 (Terra Nova Park?) 155.34 CC
46-01 (Come by Chance) 155.82 CC
48-01 (Eastport) 155.88 CC
49-01 (Port Blandford) 155.58 CC

RFSS/Site 43-01 (Point Leamington/Terrenceville?) has the following adjacent sites:
17-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.28 CC
26-01 (UNKNOWN) 160.59 CC
42-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.82 CC
(note, this site is also saying it is a neighbor to 43-01, yes, to itself)

RFSS/Site 46-01 (Come by Chance?) has the following adjacent site:
41-01 (Clarenville) 155.97 CC

RFSS/Site 48-01 (Eastport) has the following adjacent sites:
37-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.7 CC
38-01 (Terra Nova Park?) 155.34 CC
41-01 (Clarenville) 155.97 CC
49-01 (Port Blandford) 155.58 CC

RFSS/Site 49-01 (Port Blandford) has the following adjacent sites:
37-01 (UNKNOWN) 155.7 CC
38-01 (Terra Nova Park?) 155.34 CC
41-01 (Clarenville) 155.97 CC
48-01 (Eastport) 155.88 CC

Knowing which sites an unknown site calls a neighbor will help figure out where the unknown site is.

Enjoy and I'll see you in September!

 

[bruddy]

Jay, it's good to see your info on our great province. I did go all out and buy the Home Patrol unit. Now all I have to do is decipher and get to learn and understand what i can do with this unit. I'm hoping to learn a lot from the info that you and others put on here. Is there anything that you may want me to try and get for you from here in the Clarenville area? You have a Merry Christmas

 

[Jay911]

Thanks, I think I've got Clarenville nailed down fairly well, unless you can find new sites.

I can send you my HomePatrol HPE file for Newfoundland P25 if you like.

 

[bruddy]

Sure do Jay just send it to me. Thanks

 

[primehifi]

I too would appreciate that file.

 

[Jay911]

I'm going to add the "unknown" sites I discovered and posted above, so it won't be today - but I will get it done in the next few days, and post as an attachment here in the forum.

I will actually also post my entire Newfoundland HPE file. I basically dumped everything I could find in the TAFL into the HomePatrol. I've found a ton of useful stuff that way too.

 

[primehifi]

YEah cheers. I can cross reference it with my discoveries (mostly St. John's). Maybe this is an easier way to do things and get to a point where you/me whoever can make a definitive DB submission instead of tinkering so much.

 

[Jay911]

I can't find the thread that had PRO96COM dumps in it, but I took the raw code from that thread and got some data out of them.

St George's is RFSS 26 site 01.
Freq advertised is 160.59 - I seem to recall the person observing that site had another freq (161.25?). Voice channel grants seem to indicate 160.59 is the only frequency in use.
Talkgroup in use is 561 (which we have as Bay D'Espoir, not sure why).

Neighbors to 26-01 are:

17-01 - cc 155.28
28-01 - cc 155.70
42-01 - cc 155.82
43-01 - cc 155.88 (this is already in the DB in Terrenceville on the Burin)

There are four band plans advertised on 26-01. Not sure why. You shouldn't have to program them into your scanner, as the control channel pushes the info out to you.

Ident 0: base 150.8, step 5kHz
Ident 1: base 150.8, step 5kHz
Ident 2: Base 145.79, step 5kHz
Ident 3: Base 151.65, step 5kHz

 

[Jay911]

My Newfoundland HPE file has been posted to the other thread titled http://forums.radioreference.com/atlantic-maritime/224932-scanning-newfoundland.html .

 

[VO1XH]

Mt.Pearl Municipal

mun security has proven to be a little tricky to decode. Uncertain if quality of signal may be an issue or not. But it will decode, it's just not great and hard to listen.

Jay, for a while now I've been hearing RCMP on 158.5800. I found it just doing a blind scan a while ago. It isn't in the DB however and usually, tx on the 158.5800 freq are not found on the edacs system when I scan it.

Thoughts? Like I said, it isn't in the DB. Interestingly, it does show up as a control channel for PAB's p25 system. I'm in St. John's.

Oh also, there's a system, likely Mount Pearl's new municipal at 422/427.1750,3000,4250,5500 which Robsterw said is nexedge. DSD should do it, no luck yet.

Been scanning the new St. John's municipal LTR and nothing yet, just the ltr clicks.

The Mt.Pearl City Council are using the Icom IDAS( ICOM DIGITAL ADVANTAGE SYSTEM) digital trunking. It was installed last March.They use Icom radios. Nexedge is a Kenwood system,it is going to be interesting in the next few years as everything is going to be switched to digital systems.

 

[primehifi]

NXDN = Icom's NXDN and Kenwoods Nexedge. They're the same system, just rebranded for each company. They both share development costs and they're interchangeable so far as I could tell.