commercial radios?

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scannerbum

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I wanted to know if say, I bought a Motorola radio like that of my local police department. "Department has moto smartnet II 800mhz" if I could have it programed to their frequncies? If so, would it be better in any way than just an average scanner?
 

SCPD

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Getting a personal radio on a trunked system.

I wanted to know if say, I bought a Motorola radio like that of my local police department. "Department has moto smartnet II 800mhz" if I could have it programed to their frequncies? If so, would it be better in any way than just an average scanner?

I'm sure the answer is no. This question comes up in one form or another from time to time on RR.
Generally speaking, if it's anything but a conventional system, only the radio vendor that sold and maintains the system can get a radio on the system.
 

mm

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Not true, read this thread

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=81662

Anything can be done. I'll leave it at that and not even get into the SYS key aspect of things but as I said anything can be done but do I recommend it ? no.

This was done on a bet and I won the bet but I use a uniden scanner for all my trunking listening, as for conventional well the motorola's work great but they are limited in the number of channels capable in a scan list and their scan speed is nothing compared to unidens and GRE's.


M
 

Astro25

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Hell yes it will be better. Scanners suck. Sorry to say it, but when RF sensitivity and intermod rejection come in to play, scanners take the maximum fail points compared to almost any commercial radio.


But as far as legal goes... short answer is no.
 

RodStrong

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Even if it was legal or you could "get in" to a system. a scanner can do a ton more than an actual transceiver when it comes to simply monitoring, especially if the user wants to scan several talkgroups with several towers.
 

b7spectra

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You are touching on the Self Proclaimed Radio Police's ground here!

In a nutshell, with the right equipment and software, yes you can.

Is it legal? Depends on who you ask (i.e. Radio Police). Can you get in trouble? Most likely. Is it better than a scanner? Yes and no - better quality reception, but not user friendly like a scanner.
 

zz0468

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I wanted to know if say, I bought a Motorola radio like that of my local police department. "Department has moto smartnet II 800mhz" if I could have it programed to their frequncies? If so, would it be better in any way than just an average scanner?

Ok. Here's some helpful little factoids, in no particular order....

* Programming a Motorola radio requires software that will either be expensive (for a current product) or impossible to obtain legally (for discontinued products).

* Said software requires a data file (called the system key) to program trunking systems into the radio. Without the system key, the programming software will not allow programming trunking system data into the radio.

* System keys are considered by MOST system administers to be confidential, and are held close.

* Reputable service shops who have legal access to system keys WILL NOT program a radio to a trunking system to anyone who asks, without something from the system administrators authorizing said programming.

* It's possible to create system keys, but if you have to ask how here, you're in over your head.

* Most Motorola radios need to affiliate with the system, which means it will transmit. When it transmits, the system administrator can gain the knowledge that your unauthorized radio exists, and can remotely disable it.

* It's possible to program and/or otherwise make the radio NOT transmit. If you have to ask how here, you're in over your head.

* The performance of the radio will be orders of magnitude better than a scanner in terms of RF and AF performance - more sensitive, immunity to interference, better quality audio.

* The performance of the radio will be orders of magnitude worse than a scanner in terms of functionality - number of talk groups held in memory, scan rate, ease of programming, lack of potential legal issues.

* The bottom line is generally this: If you're a tech type, have access to the software, can create a radio that won't be a problem to the system administrators, and are more interested in the RF performance than fancy displays and other goodie-bobs, using a commercial radio is fun, educational, and can be a satisfying technical challenge. If you're more of a non-technical consumer who just likes the idea of a Motorola radio like your local police department has, it'll be expensive, time consuming, frustrating, and at the very least, will get some doors slammed in your face, and phones hung up on when you inquire about getting it programmed.

That about sums it up. Good luck!
 
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trace1

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I wanted to know if say, I bought a Motorola radio like that of my local police department. "Department has moto smartnet II 800mhz" if I could have it programed to their frequncies?

With the right amount of "dough" and the right people with the "know" you just might just get into the "show"...

If so, would it be better in any way than just an average scanner?

Yes, no, maybe but not necessarily. ;)
 

blueangel-eric

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lots of radio fanatics have commercial radios for scanning on here. so i don't know why others can't have theirs programmed for listening to the police if they bought one. i'm confused a tad bit. it sounds like it's okay for some (as in other scanner fans on this forum) to have them but others it's so called illegal.
 

OpSec

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lots of radio fanatics have commercial radios for scanning on here. so i don't know why others can't have theirs programmed for listening to the police if they bought one. i'm confused a tad bit. it sounds like it's okay for some (as in other scanner fans on this forum) to have them but others it's so called illegal.

You missed the train on this one...

The OP is asking about a Motorola trunked radio system, which uses a software system key. Conventional radio systems require no such software key and aren't illegal to monitor with commercial gear. The trunked radios require the system key to be active in the radio software when programming any trunked-related field, which only the system administrator or other authorized persons have. The system key is considered restricted by Motorola, so if an unauthorized person has it and uses it to program trunked radios, it can and has been successfully prosecuted as a crime in different states.
 

zz0468

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lots of radio fanatics have commercial radios for scanning on here. so i don't know why others can't have theirs programmed for listening to the police if they bought one. i'm confused a tad bit. it sounds like it's okay for some (as in other scanner fans on this forum) to have them but others it's so called illegal.

Forget the "legalities", and re-read my previous post. I attempted to make a non-biased statement concerning the pros and cons. If someone has the wherewithal to overcome the cons, then do it. The point I'm trying to make is, it's not necessarily for the newcomer, especially with the questionable gains one would get.

If there is a specific problem to be solved, such as living next to a radio site that makes scanners roll over and die, maybe a real radio offers a solution - especially if one has the necessary skill sets to do this. But for the average guy on the street just wants a radio "like the police have", the real world issues involved make the idea laughable.
 

crayon

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I told you to watch out for the self-appointed radio police!
I think zz0468 did an excellent job with his summation of the legal facts surrounding the matter of using a professional radio for personal use. Just because blueangel-eric and others might be confused does not put the facts in dispute.

As with nearly all things in life, how any one person chooses to implement the knowledge conveyed is up to that person. Some additional reading on the subject can be found here:

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1296
 

blueangel-eric

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You missed the train on this one...

The OP is asking about a Motorola trunked radio system, which uses a software system key. Conventional radio systems require no such software key and aren't illegal to monitor with commercial gear. The trunked radios require the system key to be active in the radio software when programming any trunked-related field, which only the system administrator or other authorized persons have. The system key is considered restricted by Motorola, so if an unauthorized person has it and uses it to program trunked radios, it can and has been successfully prosecuted as a crime in different states.

but we can program scanner to receive without a system key so why not a commercial radio?

and your sig, what's your problem with railfans using ham radios to scan the railroads? it's legal and they receive better.
also lots of radio serious railfans also use commercial radios for receiving as well.
 

zz0468

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but we can program scanner to receive without a system key so why not a commercial radio?

What part of my previous posts do you not understand? It's quite clear if you'll take the time to read it. The radio programming software REQUIRES the key to work. It's a security feature Motorola built in to help minimize unauthorized use of a trunking system.
 
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zz0468

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In a nutshell, with the right equipment and software, yes you can.

Is it legal? Depends on who you ask (i.e. Radio Police). Can you get in trouble? Most likely. Is it better than a scanner? Yes and no - better quality reception, but not user friendly like a scanner.

I told you to watch out for the self-appointed radio police!

Are your own statements right here not the very thing you're telling us to watch out for?
 

OpSec

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but we can program scanner to receive without a system key so why not a commercial radio?

Have you read what ZZ, myself and others have posted? It does not seem like it. The scanner can't transmit. An MTS2000 or Spectra with a pirated system key can. Big difference.

and your sig, what's your problem with railfans using ham radios to scan the railroads? it's legal and they receive better.
also lots of radio serious railfans also use commercial radios for receiving as well.

Look out...personal opinions must not be allowed now.

I have always been a proponent of needing a valid ham license to purchase ham gear. If a person can't legally transmit with the radio, why have it? Waste of money and certainly creates the temptation to use it any way, which can and has happened. It's the same reason a person with a pirated TRS radio gets in trouble when they can't help themselves and "kerchunk" a talkgroup or isn't smart enough to disable the auto-affliate...they transmit where they shouldn't and cause a headache for the lawful users. Transmitting on a ham frequency with no license usually isn't a life or death matter, but illegal nonetheless. Do 99% of the non-hams that use ham radio for things like foaming do anything illegal? Probably not...but there is always someone who does. There are several smaller railroad operations that are using modified ham transceivers on RR channels while conducting business (operations, tours, excursions etc)...just as illegal.
 
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blueangel-eric

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What part of my previous posts do you not understand? It's quite clear if you'll take the time to read it. The radio programming software REQUIRES the key to work. It's a security feature Motorola built in to help minimize unauthorized use of a trunking system.
I see now. sorry i didn't catch that right away. that does bite.
that means we're stuck with scanners then. not that i can afford either one right now. And since ham radios don't do trunking.
i'm glad with railroad radio i don't have to worry about that.
 
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