Communicating with USCG helicopter??

[MUTNAV]

There may be an easy solution to all this, and as mentioned above, talking to the USCG should be the #1 step before all else. Amateurs trying to find loopholes in the rules or other work around without talking to all the players involved isn't the way to do it.

I don't think it would really be a loophole. I'm certain that upon talking with the air-station the USCG helicopters were at would have brought up any problem, if it existed. I would be more concerned about the aircrews willingness to adopt non-standard procedures.

For my part, I don't see working HF split as being any different than working a foreign country that has different amatuer HF allocations than the U.S..

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

Amateur radio shouldn't be involved at all. A search and rescue agency should have a Part 90 license as well as suitable part 90 radios with the current list of NIFOG frequencies in them.

But we're talking about 30 years ago, not what we have now. Kind of hard to figure this out without knowing exactly what was or wasn't available 30 years ago.

 

[INDY72]

Before the NIFOG, and the term interop was invented after 911, there is another pair of words that has been forgotten? MUTUAL AID??? There has always been a nationwide mutual aid set of freqs in VHF Low, VHF High, UHF. Then later on the 800 MHz NSPAC came into being. 3 that were standard in almost every public safety set up were always Nationwide SAR on 155.1600, NLEEC on 155.4750, and back then what was called Medical Calling on 155.2800. As well as every State had its own set of Statewide Mutual Aid stuff. USCG once called in by Local/State officials would be informed of what the Operating Frequency was, in fact most USCG Stations do actually have an idea of whats going on in the areas they work in and who they will be talking to as well as how to talk to them. Vice versa for the locals.

 

[mmckenna]

Before the NIFOG, and the term interop was invented after 911, there is another pair of words that has been forgotten? MUTUAL AID??? There has always been a nationwide mutual aid set of freqs in VHF Low, VHF High, UHF. Then later on the 800 MHz NSPAC came into being. 3 that were standard in almost every public safety set up were always Nationwide SAR on 155.1600, NLEEC on 155.4750, and back then what was called Medical Calling on 155.2800. As well as every State had its own set of Statewide Mutual Aid stuff. USCG once called in by Local/State officials would be informed of what the Operating Frequency was, in fact most USCG Stations do actually have an idea of whats going on in the areas they work in and who they will be talking to as well as how to talk to them. Vice versa for the locals.

Absolutely. We have arrangements with the local USCG group/airsta to do that. There are established frequency plans to allow interoperability. USCG has our frequencies, and we have access to a few VHF marine channels for USCG interoperability. Not a big deal now, but back in the days of rockbound radios, that would have been a challenge.

 

[k6cpo]

You were in a Navy unit responsible for harbor surveillance and defense that didn't have boats !!!!

Jeesh, I think most Air Force bases on the water have water borne Security (Think Macdill and Tyndall) I think there was an Air Force base that had some approach lights that extended out into a bay and the maintenace people needed there own boat. All of these would rate the use of marine VHF.

Of course this is now and that was then.

Thanks
Joel

Notice I said NAVAL RESERVE... Back then, the Reserves were often left sucking the hind teat for funding and boats just weren't part of the budget. I served in the same type of unit in Vietnam in 1968 and we had plenty of boats. After the Vietnam war, the mission was transferred to the Reserves and budgets became thin. Everything changed again after 9-11 and now the mission is part of the US Navy's Expeditionary Warfare Command and is fully funded, including boats.

 

[Mike_G_D]

Didn't have to be an hf split, at least in the 90's. I had a dual band a
Alinco ht that received well outside the 2 meter band at that time and I think Global Wolfsburg broadband vhf/uhf radios were common on a lot of public service and fed aircraft back then. If you had a decent ham 2 m handheld that could receive the marine frequencies and the helo had a decent wide band v/uhf radios - same kind of deal. You transmit to the helo on your prearranged 2 m Ham frequency and the helo transmits back to you on whatever marine (or SAR or whatever) frequency. Yes, you'd need to prearrange things, of course, and maybe not ideal but, with planning and some practice better than a note dropped with a weight. Same basic concept as the hf split idea but I'd think a little easier and maybe a tad more reliable portability-wise.

 

[W7FDX]

Around here, (Illinois) I know the medical helicopters have a frequency known as IREACH. Its the Illinois Radio Emergency Assistance CHannel. The freq is 155.055. All the fire and ambulance vehicles that I know of have this freq as well. I know its been around quite a while. Not sure if other states have something like that. On the law enforcement side, ISPERN (Illinois State Police Emergency Radio Network) at 155.475 is a common channel. I think it is common for most agencies to have both of these.

155.475 is the national PD common frequency so almost any police unit that has a VHF radio should have that channel programmed in.

 

[INDY72]

155.475 is the national PD common frequency so almost any police unit that has a VHF radio should have that channel programmed in.

155.4750 official name now is VLAW31, and it is paired now with 155.48250 which is VLAW32. Back in the day VLAW31 had many names, for most places it was Nationwide Law Enforcement Emergency Calling, or simply Nationwide Law. Some States would call it their own like IL did. (Which they should NOT be doing at all anymore per NIFOG best practices. But then again some folks like to be special no matter what.)

 

[lu81fitter]

155.4750 official name now is VLAW31, and it is paired now with 155.48250 which is VLAW32. Back in the day VLAW31 had many names, for most places it was Nationwide Law Enforcement Emergency Calling, or simply Nationwide Law. Some States would call it their own like IL did. (Which they should NOT be doing at all anymore per NIFOG best practices. But then again some folks like to be special no matter what.)

I'm not so sure it's a matter of "being special". I think at this point, it's just habit. Illinois State Police dispatchers call out "ISPERN Units, District xx", then describe the event taking place. It's just how its been done for a long time. I've heard that since I've been listening back to the late 1980's. I was not aware that it was not a preferred thing to do.

 

[majoco]

The OP asked "Is there a way we could have LEGALLY communicated with the helicopter? ".....

So is it legal for an ad hoc user on the ground to talk to a USCG helicopter on airband frequencies? NO, not unless the station and the operators are FRTO licence holders.

So is it legal for an ad hoc user on the ground to talk to a USCG helicopter on marine frequencies? NO, not unless the station and the operators are marine radio GROL licence holders.

 

[prcguy]

In the US, the FCC issued GROL does not give you any operating privileges that would allow contacting a USCG helicopter. A person on the water could legally communicate with the USCG helicopter on marine frequencies, which they obviously have. You wold need a marine shore station or equivalent mobile license to do the same from land.

If you are civilian and a member of the USCG Auxiliary you can pass some tests and get issued an NTIA license that can cover marine, aircraft and some US Govt freqs when doing official USCG duty. I have an NTIA issued fixed and mobile station license that covers most HF, marine, aircraft and some US Govt freqs and could legally contact the USCG helicopter on various frequencies under certain conditions.

The OP asked "Is there a way we could have LEGALLY communicated with the helicopter? ".....

So is it legal for an ad hoc user on the ground to talk to a USCG helicopter on airband frequencies? NO, not unless the station and the operators are FRTO licence holders.

So is it legal for an ad hoc user on the ground to talk to a USCG helicopter on marine frequencies? NO, not unless the station and the operators are marine radio GROL licence holders.

 

[W7FDX]

The easiest thing to do would be to use one of the national interop frequencies in whatever frequency band radio you're using. (VHF, UHF, 700/800) For example in my area we are all VHF so on large scale incidents outside our usual mutual aid departments we use one of the V-TAC channels or if it's a SAR call we'll use V-SAR 16. (155.160 PL: 127.3) The process would be basically the same for the other bands, U-TAC, 8-TAC, 7-TAC. But just remember that all the 7-TAC channels are P25 mode only.

 

[AA4TX]

In the US, the FCC issued GROL does not give you any operating privileges that would allow contacting a USCG helicopter. A person on the water could legally communicate with the USCG helicopter on marine frequencies, which they obviously have. You wold need a marine shore station or equivalent mobile license to do the same from land.

The FCC has, with the Report and Order adopted on August 30, 2016, and released on September 1, 2016, expanded the use of Marine radios on shore. In addition to allowing those with a Coast License to use marine radios on shore, the FCC has added the following:

§ 80.115 Operational conditions for use of associated ship units.
(a) Associated ship units may be operated under a ship station authorization. Use of an associated ship unit is restricted as follows;

1) It must only be operated on the safety and calling frequency 156.800 MHz or 156.525 MHz or on commercial or noncommercial VHF intership frequencies appropriate to the class of ship station with which it is associated.

(2) Except for safety purposes, it must only be used to communicate with the ship station with which it is associated or with associated ship units of the same ship station. Such associated ship units may be used from shore only adjacent to the waterway (such as on a dock or beach) where the ship is located. Communications from shore must relate to the operational and business needs of the ship including the transmission of safety information, and must be limited to the minimum practicable transmission time.

(3) It must be equipped to transmit on the frequency 156.800 MHz or 156.525 MHz and at least one appropriate intership frequency.

(4) Calling must occur on the frequency 156.800 MHz or 156.525 MHz unless calling and working on an intership frequency has been prearranged.

(5) Power is limited to one watt.

(6) The station must be identified by the call sign of the ship station with which it is associated and an appropriate unit designator.