Cranford To Run FirstNet Pilot Program

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Not sure if this means they will go silent on the airwaves and this FirstNet system will completely replace standard 2 way radio communications? If so, always a stupid idea to replace emergency comms by depending on cell phone service, which is normally first thing to fail in major emergencies or bad storms.

 

mmckenna

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Not sure if this means they will go silent on the airwaves and this FirstNet system will completely replace standard 2 way radio communications? If so, always a stupid idea to replace emergency comms by depending on cell phone service, which is normally first thing to fail in major emergencies or bad storms.

It says that the FirstNet service will be utilized to permit communications between the schools and public safety.

"Integrating the Cranford Public Schools and specifically Cranford High School into this same platform will allow for immediate and direct communication between First Responders and Cranford High School’s Administration and Staff using FirstNet’s Enhanced Push-To-Talk Application."​
It doesn't say public safety users will be ditching their radios.
This is actually a good solution as it allows direct interoperability between public safety and the school administration without issuing department radios to the schools.

Officers already carry FirstNet devices according to the article. It's pretty common for agencies to issue cell phones to the officers. This just makes it so the school admin is on the same network using the same communications applications. It's a good tool to have, and a good way to do it. School admin having agency radios is rarely a good solution.

 

IAmSixNine

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Yeah waste of tax payer money.. While i dont know the details of your district, many schools around my area use DMR. Specifically Capatcity plus or connect plus. Every school has an SRO channel. That DMR SRO channel is also linked directly to the local P25 public safety system as well. So the PD can go to the SRO channel in their radios and talk to schools. The Schools can go to SRO channel and talk to the SRO units and the PD dispatch also monitor the channel.
Its the cost of a mobile radio linking to the P25 system and if your agency charges per ID on the system its way way way cheaper to have that single radio channel linked vs paying for each subscriber unit for first net. And it works.
 

mmckenna

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Couldn't they just request additional TGs on NJICS?

Care and maintenance of a shiny new APX radio for each administrator and staff member gets really expensive, especially when you consider the only time they get used is in periodic drills. The rest of the time the radio is sitting in a bottom drawer with the battery slowly draining and gathering dust.
Assigning radios to applications like this is a poor use of resources.
It also results in the radio user not being competent in usage of the radio when an emergency does happen. Been there, done that, and I discourage users on my own system from using it like that.
It also creates a false sense of security.

It also doesn't take into account possible in-building coverage issues, which is not uncommon in modern steel reinforced concrete buildings, like a school. That's sort of addressed in this line:

"In Cranford High School, this new technology Utilizes Cellular Boosters strategically placed throughout the school to ensure clear communication throughout the entirety of the school and campus."​
In this application, "cellular boosters" can mean a number of things. It might be a BDA system designed for the specific cell bands in use. It might be a microcell system, or it may be a public safety type BDA system. Either way, it's often a cheaper solution for cellular, sometimes the carriers will pay for it, and it can serve a lot more users than just the occasional public safety/school resource officer that wanders down the hall.

The other -huge- benefit is that it off loads traffic from the trunked system. If you look back at many of these school shootings, you get a ton of responders show up. Each one probably has their mobile sitting on their own dispatch channel. Their hand held is probably on some mutual aid channel. That ties up limited resources at the local trunked site. Now add in additional talkgroups for the school admin/staff that probably couldn't even spell LMR, BDA or FCC, and expect them to keep radio traffic limited to reduce strain on an overloaded trunked site.

School admin/staff doesn't need to be carry high end trunked radios. Waste of money, waste of resources and it never works out the way they think it will. It might make the admin feel special, but usually what you'll find is that the LAST thing public safety wants is untrained/non-public safety users popping up on their system "trying to help".
 

wa8pyr

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School admin/staff doesn't need to be carry high end trunked radios. Waste of money, waste of resources and it never works out the way they think it will. It might make the admin feel special, but usually what you'll find is that the LAST thing public safety wants is untrained/non-public safety users popping up on their system "trying to help".

The other issue is that, if the schools are already using FirstNet (or AT&T) PTT on their cellular devices, linking them into NJICS is a relatively simple matter; this would then give responding agencies the capability to patch P25 talkgroups to FirstNet talkgroups, or even put said FirstNet talkgroups directly in their own radios (if they have radios equipped to operate on LTE). Actually win-win for everybody; it's a good cost savings for both sides, and they gain "flip of a switch" interoperability.
 

mmckenna

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Cheaper, too.
I switched my work provided phone about 2 years ago. Ditched the overpriced iPhone and AT&T service.
Switched to a 99¢ Sonim XP8 that is much more suitable for my usage than the iPhone ever was.
Was able to switch from a capped AT&T plan that used pooled minutes/texts/data with others at work onto a plan that gave me unlimited everything, including hotspot for quite a bit less per month.
Plus, I get some priority over the average Joe on the street.
 

wa8pyr

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Cheaper, too.
I switched my work provided phone about 2 years ago. Ditched the overpriced iPhone and AT&T service.
Switched to a 99¢ Sonim XP8 that is much more suitable for my usage than the iPhone ever was.
Was able to switch from a capped AT&T plan that used pooled minutes/texts/data with others at work onto a plan that gave me unlimited everything, including hotspot for quite a bit less per month.
Plus, I get some priority over the average Joe on the street.

Ditto, although I'm still on the iPhone (currently an iPhone 14 Pro Max); it does everything I need it to do, does it well, and without the finicky BS of an Android device.

I do have some LTE-capable radios here (XL200P and XL200M) which I've contemplated adding FirstNet to, pending the day MARCS gets that connectivity going.
 

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Many school systems are moving to a Mutualink/Firstnet solution to allow phone, radio and video sharing if and/or when an incident occurs. Almost all the casinos are doing this already down in AC. Its probably this is what the article is alluding to. I am seeing more and more agencies on Mutualink these days, including some schools or school districts. Police then have the ability to see whats going on in a school immediately once they are brought into a Mutualink incident. VIdeo, radio feeds are available to them for a quick situational awareness assessment.
 

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So the school is buying FirstNet cell phones to use the ATT Push-to-Talk app instead of radios. And the PD already has FirstNet cell phones that have the PTT app. That’s a long article to say that they are changing cell phone carriers.
 

wa8pyr

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So the school is buying FirstNet cell phones to use the ATT Push-to-Talk app instead of radios. And the PD already has FirstNet cell phones that have the PTT app. That’s a long article to say that they are changing cell phone carriers.

There's a lot more involved than just a change of carriers. Priority access and the ability to tie it directly into a P25 system for interop are at the top of the list.
 

CastorLB

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There's a lot more involved than just a change of carriers. Priority access and the ability to tie it directly into a P25 system for interop are at the top of the list.
If the state allows the tying in.

Does anyone know of anyone using a cell phone tied into NJICS? The AT&T ePTT program is proprietary and only works in between AT&T devices. The priority access is only during major disruptive events otherwise Band 14 isn't even turned on. Verizon even offers priority access to first responders but they don't have a dedicated band.
 

GTR8000

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The priority access is only during major disruptive events otherwise Band 14 isn't even turned on.
Band 14 is not only always "on", but is available for use by any device that is capable of operating in that band, including non-FirstNet devices. Those non-FirstNet devices are preempted whenever necessary to provide priority access to FirstNet subscribers.
 

mondaro

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where I work in public safety we have these ATT Sonim devices back secondary communications, if Cranford was smart they stay away from them for Primary communication the system is unreliable and often down and not working, I have an 8 it's a nice device when it wants to work, the device can not walk and chew gum at the same time, otherwise, it can't multi-task without having issues. anyone from Cranford reading this feel free to PM me more than happy to show you my device and its issues.
 

8000XE

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If the state allows the tying in.

Does anyone know of anyone using a cell phone tied into NJICS? The AT&T ePTT program is proprietary and only works in between AT&T devices. The priority access is only during major disruptive events otherwise Band 14 isn't even turned on. Verizon even offers priority access to first responders but they don't have a dedicated band.

NJSP does have a cache of FirstNet devices that are integrated with NJICS. NJ Forest Fire also has their TG integrated
 
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I can now confirm that Cranford High School completely ditched their old analog VHF radios and now use brand new FirstNet PTT devices which cannot be monitored by any scanner, as far as I know. I am unaware of any patch on NJICS for them, but if anyone comes across anything, please post. I also know the Police Captain in Cranford has expressed interest in switching the PD to primarily use this same technology.

I was doing some research and there is also a small town called Dallas, GA that has totally switched to FirstNet some time ago and cannot be monitored on any scanner, nor patched on their county's P25 system anymore. In my opinion, I do believe this voice over cellular PTT technology will eventually replace most LMR communication for public safety making our scanners totally useless. However, I think we still have a good 15-20 years (hopefully) before it really takes over everything.
 
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Here is an article from 2020, when the police captain expresses interest for the PD to switch over primarily to FirstNet in the future.

 
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