CSX Equipment Detector Question

[BamaScan]

When the CSX Train runs over an equipment detector I hear the following. "Lenth of trian 5370 and Axel 404 No defects found."
Can someone decode this for me ? I know it's not 5370 cars. What is a 404 axel ? Why is Axel reported back ? Also who hears this other than me ? Does the train hear it ? and does Jacksonville Florida dispatcher hear it even if the train is in Alabama ?

 

[rhicks6000]

That's axle count. The train crew will hear it as it will come over their radio.

 

[AK9R]

The defect detector transmission is made on the road channel. The train crew is supposed to be monitoring the road channel which means they will hear the transmission. The dispatcher is monitoring the dispatcher channel, so they don't hear the defect detector. It's possible that the dispatcher gets some other indication from the defect detector, but that's not always the case.

The defect detector you are hearing is transmitting the train length in feet and number of axles. The length lets the crew know that they have all of the train that they think they have. The paperwork that the crew gets when they leave a terminal includes a calculated train length based on what the computer system has in its database. The length reported by the detector verifies that length. Train length is important so the crew and the dispatcher will know if the train will fit in sidings.

The axle count report is also important to let the crew know they have all of their train. Yes, if the train came apart, the air hose would separate where the train came apart which would dump the air. But if an angle **** is closed or the air line is blocked before the break, they crew would not know they had lost part of the train. Also, if the train came apart, the FRED would indicate a loss of air pressure and the head end of the train would eventually lose communications with the FRED. But the axle count is just one more verification.

If there were any defects, the detector would report the location as X number of axles from the head end of the train. The defect detector can't count cars, but it can count axles.

 

[Josh]

Some defect detectors do count cars. I've heard one on the railroadradio.net cincinatti area stream, and also for myself on the Amtrak Line at the Furnassville Indiana detector. I think it can group the axles whether they be 2 or 3 axle trucks and go from there. It was accurate for the amtrak train I was riding in (with all 4-axle equipment).

Some detectors tell more, some tell less. Norfolk Southern is notorious for having nothing but the location and "no defects" others, aside from length, axle count, and number of cars, can tell the train's speed and the outdoor ambient temperature as well.

CSX is a company who is known for turning all the bells and whistles of their equipment on.

Conrail's detectors instead of a milepost would actually say the city and state the detector was located in, or the junction or "locally known" name for wherever it was.

-Josh

 

[ratboy]

When the CSX Train runs over an equipment detector I hear the following. "Lenth of trian 5370 and Axel 404 No defects found."
Can someone decode this for me ? I know it's not 5370 cars. What is a 404 axel ? Why is Axel reported back ? Also who hears this other than me ? Does the train hear it ? and does Jacksonville Florida dispatcher hear it even if the train is in Alabama ?

This is really simple stuff.

The train is 5370 feet long (Length of train), and it has 404 AXLES. The axle count isn't usually needed anymore, but a couple of times over the years, it has come in handy as the trains have been known to be missing a few cars, and one time, they got the everything messed up and Conrail sent a train to Elkhart that was supposed to be going to Pittsburgh, and the Elkhart train was on it's way to Pittsburgh. They found out each train was heading the wrong way when they each hit the detectors on the way out of Toledo, and the axle counts didn't match up. Anyone within a few miles hears the detector for sure, and the train crew definitely hears it, since that's who it's for in the first place! I don't know if the dispatcher hears it, but it doesn't matter if he does, it's purpose is to tell the crew everything is OK..

 

[Watain]

I happen to be in possession of a copy of the official signal aspect sheet that CSX uses on the Kingsport Subdivision, the road channel is listed as 66, and the dispatcher is channel 94. There is only 5 detectors that operate on the road channel all other DD's are listed as channel 8. There is one 30 miles from me that I can hear on a constant basis on the road channel. I cannot pick up any detector listed as channel 8. Is there a separate frequency I can put in the scanner to hear the other detectors? The road frequency is 161.100 and the Dispatcher is 160.520.

 

[KF0SKV]

"I cannot pick up any detector listed as channel 8."

Not all detectors talk when a train passes them. Some of them are "Talk on Defect" only, and only talk when there is a problem, e.g., hot bearing, dragging, leaning, over dimension equipment/merchandise.

Talk on defect detectors also talk when a signal maintainer vehicle rolls by and generally transmits a message saying such as "BNSF Detector MP 3.6, System Working, Out"

"Is there a separate frequency I can put in the scanner to hear the other detectors? The road frequency is 161.100 and the Dispatcher is 160.520."

BNSF Detector 0.3 at Pacific Jct. Ia simulcasts over 8585 and 8787, just in case a Napier Sub Crew forgets to change over from 8585 to 8787 when entering or exiting the BNSF Creston Sub. So there is a chance they transmit over both frequencies, but, again, the detector may be Talk on Defect, or you are too far away to hear them.

 

[Josh]

If it says to use channel 8, your only other option is to try 160.230, which is the CSX primary road channel on most lines.

Reminder, most detectors only put out around 5 watts from the transmitter. CSX uses 1/2 wave folded dipoles and quarter wave whips a lot on their detectors, which will not put out more than 5 watts ERP. This equates to short range communications. Locomotive radios put out between 35 and 45 watts. You may want to visit the detector locations physically and watch a train roll by and see what happens. CSX's detectors usually announce themselves when the train first passes the location, and then gives the report after the train completely passes.

-Josh

 

[Watain]

Thanks for the info guys, I seem to always be able to pick up NS detectors on a constant basis, which is why I originally thought that the csx DD's broadcast on a separate frequency. The one CSX detector that I pick up all the time(ch.66) usually says no defects 8 times. I will try the 161.230.

 

[Heterodyne]

Some defect detectors do count cars. I've heard one on the railroadradio.net cincinatti area stream, and also for myself on the Amtrak Line at the Furnassville Indiana detector. I think it can group the axles whether they be 2 or 3 axle trucks and go from there. It was accurate for the amtrak train I was riding in (with all 4-axle equipment).

All defect dectectors count axels.... when it finds a defect it will tell the crew what axel number it is.

Hotbox/Dragging equipment detectors are very complex pieces of equipment. Before a train arrives at a location, a very sentitive photo and heat sensitive eye (protected by a magnetic aperture) will open and take a baseline reading of the sky. It will then scan the journals of every wheel and axel that passes over it. Most will beep when they find a defect, and then offer a report when the entire train passes over (what it found, and what axle it is located at... overheated journal, overheated bearing, dragging equipment, etc.) You will often hear crews to tell other people to stay off a channel while they are waiting for a detector report. The dispatcher is not normally alerted to any defects or reports, except for WILD or wheel impact dectectors.

AEI readers, located usually at the entrance/exits of yards or major terminals but also found along major corridors, are responsible for identifying extra or missing cars. Each car has an RFID tag that the system compares to what should be on the train, and it will notify either the dispatcher or car control about the missing train. But - odd axle counts by detectors have let rail crews know that something is off, especially on dark territory or places where AEI readers aren't normally found. This is especially important if the extra car contains dangerous or special dangerous goods (which require special handling, as well as paperwork)

But the other replies in this list is correct..... the length of the train is in feet.

 

[KF0SKV]

Let's not forget that AEI Readers are also used to track locations of railcars, much like if you sent a FedEx/UPS package, a scanner reads the barcode, or in this case of a railcar, a RFID tag is picked up by the AEI reader, and sends the location of the railcar to the customer or railroad inquiring about the location and status of the railcar.

 

[OK2BCK]

I really enjoy this discussion guys

 

[kb2vxa]

Just one minor correction, FRED stands for flashing rear end device and can be as simple as a red flasher hung on the rear of the last car. The end of train device or EOT is what transmits brake pipe pressure to a readout in the locomotive and BTW listening for them is a good way railfans can know when a train is in the area. Winter is one lousy time to be standing around with a camera when one can be sitting in a warm car with a scanner.

 

[Heterodyne]

Just one minor correction, FRED stands for flashing rear end device and can be as simple as a red flasher hung on the rear of the last car. The end of train device or EOT is what transmits brake pipe pressure to a readout in the locomotive and BTW listening for them is a good way railfans can know when a train is in the area. Winter is one lousy time to be standing around with a camera when one can be sitting in a warm car with a scanner.

They are all analgous to the same thing. Different railroads call them different things, while different railroads use different devices.

FREDs, EOTs, SBUs, EOMs, etc.

I'd put what our train crews usually call them, but I'd probably end up banned.

 

[N9NRA]

I`m also finding this thread intresting, and i have a question, i heard one of the CN Railroad detectors once when i was up in northern WI recently, and i happened to hear it when it found a defect (the thing put out this rather long, LOUD tone, then announced the defect something like "defect found", after which it read out the information on the defect. What i`m wondering is, what happens when a defect is found (asside from the fact that after the rather-loud tone and readout, it proceded to call the dispatch, supposedly to report it), does/can the detector halt the train, or does it just call dispatch and let `em handle it? Thanx! N9NRA

 

[AK9R]

Depends on the rules and the circumstances, but usually an activated detector will result in the crew stopping the train in a safe manner and so as to not block any road crossings. Then a member of the crew, usually the conductor (leaving the engineer in the cab of the engine) walks the train using the axle count of the defect to find the car or axle that caused the detector to go off. The conductor will verify whether or not the defect is real. If it's something minor, the conductor may try to fix it. If the defect is serious enough that the car can't be moved the rest of the way to the train's terminal or can't be moved at normal train speed. they'll set the car off at a siding or spur track, put their train back together, and go on.

Dragging defect detectors usually go off because the brake rigging has fallen down from the bottom of the car or something is caught in the bottom of the car. Hot box detectors go off if one of the axle bearings is overheating. Some places have high car detectors that go off if something is sticking out of the top of a car or if an unusually high car goes past the detector. High car detectors are used to keep from damaging bridges or tunnels that have low clearances.

 

[N9NRA]

Depends on the rules and the circumstances, but usually an activated detector will result in the crew stopping the train in a safe manner and so as to not block any road crossings. Then a member of the crew, usually the conductor (leaving the engineer in the cab of the engine) walks the train using the axle count of the defect to find the car or axle that caused the detector to go off. The conductor will verify whether or not the defect is real. If it's something minor, the conductor may try to fix it. If the defect is serious enough that the car can't be moved the rest of the way to the train's terminal or can't be moved at normal train speed. they'll set the car off at a siding or spur track, put their train back together, and go on.

Dragging defect detectors usually go off because the brake rigging has fallen down from the bottom of the car or something is caught in the bottom of the car. Hot box detectors go off if one of the axle bearings is overheating. Some places have high car detectors that go off if something is sticking out of the top of a car or if an unusually high car goes past the detector. High car detectors are used to keep from damaging bridges or tunnels that have low clearances.

Hey cool! Intesting thing is that when i heard the detector go off, it was a bit different than what i normally hear when the trains go past one (this was a hotbox detector). I don`t recall what happened after i heard the thing sound, as the train that went over it was too far away for me to hear what they did. Still, it was kinda neat to hear it. From what i can tell it dosen`t happen all that often, am i right? Just curious. N9NRA

 

[AK9R]

You may have heard a malfunctioning defect detector. If the detector is not working properly, it will make an announcement when the train first passes the detector. Depending on the rules, the crew may be able to get the dispatcher's permission to bypass the detector or they may have to stop and check the whole train.

 

[N9NRA]

A malfunctioning detector...now that`s intresting, and i think that`s what i was hearing, as the first thing after the "defect found" announcement was "first hotbox...", after that it read out the axel and wheel info. Curiously, any guess as to what might have caused that? Only thing i can think of would be the cold, it was rather chilly (for the time that i was up there...got to round abouts 10 below) that night. Still, rather intresting, as i have a brother who used to work for the railroad many years back when i was little, but he never told me much about what he did. Now, i kinda wish he wouldda, from what i`ve heard listening to it it sounds like a fun job, albeit a LOT of work each day! N9NRA

 

[AK9R]

No, that sounds like a functioning hot box defect detector that read off the location of the first hot box it detected. "Hot box" is referring to the bearing journal for one of the axles. A hot box defect detector uses infrared sensors to detect the heat coming from each passing axle. If it detects one that's too hot, it announces over the radio what it found.