Dallas ICE facility sniper shooting

[blantonl]

Just as a record to understand how comms occurred for this incident.

• initial law enforcement dispatch was on DPD Channel 5 (Northwest). DPD Central, and Northeast division units responded as well.
• Dallas fire responded on DFD-1 Fire and DFD-2 EMS, and the majority of their comms occurred there until they finally assigned DFD-5 Cmd and DFD-6 Tac to the incident after about 30 minutes
• Garland, Richardson and Plano sent officers and SWAT members to respond to the incident - and they used GMRS Law IO-6 for their response. They repeatedly asked to be patched to DPD but it never happened.
• DPD Swat used their encrypted DPD SWAT COMMON encrypted channel, but they didn't really show up on scene until the gunman was already found dead
• After about 1.5 hours they moved all DPD on scene comms to DPD Northwest Secure-A (encrypted).
• All the Garland, Richardson and Plano officers lamented the fact that after switching to DPD Northwest Secure-A they were completely locked out and had no way to communicate with DPD. They asked if they could get patched to the channel and then laughed and were resigned to the fact that it was clear it wasn't going to happen.
• DPD's Air-1 was unavailable, so DPS-101 responded directly to the incident on DPD Channel-5 Northwest
• I didn't see any federal comms use whatsoever, and I live just a few miles from the scene and all fed channels were pretty silent.

 

[mancow]

Sounds about right. All this supposed interoperability has rendered nobody operable.

 

[Harold]

I just reviewed most of the Radio traffic myself. Struck by the fact that DFR Dispatch apparently has no comms. with DPD(as they do in Fort Worth). The single DFR dispatcher was often unresponsive as responding companies tried to call 660. The Dispatcher on DFR 5 seemed to be sitting on her Mic button at times. It was also apparent they rely on messaging to their MDCs a lot. DFR did not declare an Active Shooter response until about 45 minutes into the incident. DPD transported both critical victims to Parkland, DFR made no transports.

The comms. on the DFR Tac channel( Fire 6) did seem effective and sufficient. Alarm office got some work to do.

 

[aglowgibbon]

Sounds about right. All this supposed interoperability has rendered nobody operable.

Unfortunately, with that many systems at play, it was bound to have issues. GMRS, NTIRN, Richardson, and the PAWMCo subscribers all trying to work together.

I know it's arm chair quarterbacking, but all of the outside agencies should have gone to a NTIRN LAW IO channel and request that DPD be patched it. It is a valid (albeit I have no idea) theory that the dispatcher was physically not capable of patching those channels.

 

[hiegtx]

I know it's arm chair quarterbacking, but all of the outside agencies should have gone to a NTIRN LAW IO channel and request that DPD be patched it. It is a valid (albeit I have no idea) theory that the dispatcher was physically not capable of patching those channels.

Whether it's "physically possible" to patch one or more of the talkgroups (on Dallas's side), I have no way of knowing. I suspect that, regardless of whether it's possible or not, that most of the units in the field, as well as some of the dispatchers, have no idea of how to accomplish that. Long after Dallas made the move to NTIRN, DFR was still using their old Uhf channels for fireground. Only in the past few months have they started using the tactical talkgroups available to them, DFR 5 & 6 are finally being used on scenes.

 

[Harold]

Whether it's "physically possible" to patch one or more of the talkgroups (on Dallas's side), I have no way of knowing. I suspect that, regardless of whether it's possible or not, that most of the units in the field, as well as some of the dispatchers, have no idea of how to accomplish that. Long after Dallas made the move to NTIRN, DFR was still using their old Uhf channels for fireground. Only in the past few months have they started using the tactical talkgroups available to them, DFR 5 & 6 are finally being used on scenes.

Maybe the DPS 101 Tactical Flight Officer, ought to offer up some lessons. We know he can Simulcast just about any departments, In Flight!

 

[Russell]

Interestingly enough, GMRS, NTIRN (DPD), Richardson, and PAWMCo (Plano and SO) routinely use GMRS to talk to each other. Dispatcher to dispatcher is the primary means of communication with each other (including DPS, Tollway, Rockwall, Kaufman, etc.). These guys are doing it right. Sounds like the breakdown occurred when DPD moved all their units to 5A Secure.

I understand the perceived need to go secure, I don't really have a problem with that. However, they locked out all their partners. Had this been a worse situation this breakdown could've could have put more lives in danger. Not a tenable scenario.

Oddly enough, most of the agencies listed above run secure on their own systems. Again, locking outside agencies out. Perhaps they should add each other's secure channels to each other's radios. I hate the idea of the alternative.

 

[blantonl]

Yes, in Dallas County the interop layer definitely seems to be GMRS over NTIRN. i routinely hear DPD units that will answer up immediately when even casual call-ups happen like “hey, any DPD units up on GMRS this is Richardson PD 123”

NTIRN interop is much more formalized, where units call up on IO Call and ask for channel assignments for an incident (presumably per NTIRN SOP) from Fort Worth who runs the show.

Irving, Arlington, GP, FW and others tend to use NTIRN as their interop layer. Their dispatchers routinely patch their agency talkgroups to Law IO channels for incidents.

and yes, DPS-101 TFO knows his stuff. I’ve heard him immediately come up on whatever channel, wherever, whatever system with zero hesitation and zero questions.

 

[hiegtx]

Maybe the DPS 101 Tactical Flight Officer, ought to offer up some lessons. We know he can Simulcast just about any departments, In Flight!

Yep.

I've heard him simulcasting on three different systems, at the same time, when working a chase or another incident type.

 

[Russell]

Federal Protective Service Police is guarding the ICE facility, now. RR has a listing on 410.8 P25 little 'e'.

 

[DavidDreiling]

I have chatted with some of the DPD officers and they do not even realize they have new radios with all the channel availaibility

 

[kmartin]

Unfortunately it takes a serious situation to get them to look into how to better use interop during emergencies. Maybe they will learn from this and improve

 

[kayn1n32008]

Sounds about right. All this supposed interoperability has rendered nobody operable.

The technology didn't fail to work, people failed to work.

 

[kayn1n32008]

DPS-101 TFO knows his stuff. I’ve heard him immediately come up on whatever channel, wherever, whatever system with zero hesitation and zero questions.

Is the helicopter a shared resource that is utilized by multiple agencies?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Maybe the DPS 101 Tactical Flight Officer, ought to offer up some lessons. We know he can Simulcast just about any departments, In Flight!

He probably has to change zones and 'spin the dial' when supporting ground units, so is far more intimately knowledgeable about what talk group is in which zone.

 

[KevinC]

Is the helicopter a shared resource that is utilized by multiple agencies?

Yes.

He probably has to change zones and 'spin the dial' when supporting ground units, so is far more intimately knowledgeable about what talk group is in which zone.

Correct, TxDPS is on top of what is in their radios and how to use them, including how to patch in the helicopter.

 

[Harold]

Is the helicopter a shared resource that is utilized by multiple agencies?

Short answer Yes. Any agency can request The DPS helicopter to assist on an incident. Limitation is they are based in McKinney and although they fly a very fast helicopter, the time en route can be prolonged. Fort Worth has 2 helicopters they can utilize, but while they will assist neighboring agencies they limit their time, often times they need permission from the command staff to assist. Dallas is much the same as Fort Worth, but their helicopter has been out of service for months now.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Yep.

I've heard him simulcasting on three different systems, at the same time, when working a chase or another incident type.

He has at least 3 radios(either APX or XTS depending on the age of the radio) in theTechnisonic chassis.

 

[blantonl]

I was out at Meacham a few months ago and parked my plane just across from the FWPD ramp, one of their helos was doing some hover testing right there on the ramp. They’ve got some nice birds.

DPS was based at mesquite previously I believe in the hangar across from mine. It’s a pretty nice setup and has been sitting empty for a while. It’s a nice big hangar with a helipad at the approach end of the runway, has a generator, ready room, offices etc. I’ve actually been meaning to talk to the airport manager about it to see if it is for sale 😏

here is a photo of the FWPD helo

 

[blantonl]

Some selected photos from here

Aircraft Operations Photo Gallery | Department of Public Safety

www.dps.texas.gov

In addition to the Technisonic control system, they have some Harris stuff that supported some of the old Provoice stuff down in SA and even a scanner or two.