DECT/ Wifi vs. Radio

[Your_account]

Hey
In the last Month I search for an Radio for me if I get a Amateur Radio Licence.
Some Handheld Radio Company offer there Radio to Hotels and small Company.

Hmm I ask myself why should someone buy a Radio for the Company usage?

I know some facts who the dont do it: (in this sample dect = wifi)
1) a Radio Frequency cost (a lot) Money and Dect Freq cost 0€.
2) a Radio must have Licence and also Complain to the Country Law. That mean there is no way to buy a Radio Online and use it. I know the Specification who must fit in my Country. The are very strict with disturbing other Channels. So if I got a Dect I have nothing do to just turn it on and run.
3) Infrastructure is another Problem. The Repeater cost Money. In lager Buildings (Hospital) and Parkinglots there will be no indor Coverage. That mean several Repeter/ Accespoint must be installed to get a Coverage.
DMR Repeater cost a lot of Money. A Wifi AP cost ~30€, Dect ~100€, DMR ~1000€.


So why should a Hotel use a Radio instead of DECT/ Wifi device?

 

[slicerwizard]

So during a power failure, when bad things happen, like people stuck in elevators, the security staff loses communications?

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Your_account]

So during a power failure

The last the that happened was when my dad put a broken Microwave on the Powersocket. After 2 Min the and Reset the Fuse the Power was recover.

Since we lived in your House ~25 Years there was never a Power Failure.

like people stuck in elevators

The must call the Firebrigade to Open the door and or an Elevator Technician.

the security staff loses communications?

Where? There arent any or it called Police and there System work for ~30Min if there is an Citywide Powerfailure.

Bit Facility like a Hospital have there own hhuuggeeee Diesel Engine.
If any Riot come over a Walki Talko dont help anymore.

 

[RayAir]

Icom IP100H WLAN or IP Radio System

Looks like they are small, low power radios that connect to APs you set up in your coverage area. Apparently an Icom controller (IP1000C) is needed.

They advertise:

License-free
Supports full duplex
AES encryption (assume WPA2-PSK/AES)

I think it's an interesting concept for on site communications.

http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/landmobile/ipsolutions/ip100h/default.aspx

 

[sfd119]

Since we lived in your House ~25 Years there was never a Power Failure.The must call the Firebrigade to Open the door and or an Elevator Technician.
Where? There arent any or it called Police and there System work for ~30Min if there is an Citywide Powerfailure.

Sure they do. Our Fire repeater was on battery backup for three days once.

 

[Your_account]

In Austria the use "Tetra" System and many of the Basestation have only an small UPS.

And the Icom are rubbish. IP / Dect Phones have many Features.

When i read that: http://www.motorolasolutions.com/co...es/mototrbo_hospitality_application_brief.pdf

So for an VoIP / IP Phone there is only that on the Market (in Europe):
http://www.ascom.com/de/i62_productsheet_ver_g.pdf

The default i62 (all inkl) cost ~300€.

So why does anyone should buy such a Motorola Radio?
It have a Monthly cost for the Freq, the Device arent cheaper than that Wifi and every else around cost a huge licence fee.

 

[mmckenna]

Seriously, are you comparing DECT and WiFi to a real land mobile radio system?

I had to explain this to people at work when we replaced our trunked system. Big difference between capabilities, coverage, reliability, etc.

 

[Your_account]

Seriously, are you comparing DECT and WiFi to a real land mobile radio system?

Sure. Radio make no sense for me in a Hospital/ Hotel/ Conferencing Area.

Big difference between capabilities, coverage, reliability, etc.

yes all points for Wifi and DECT system.Outside a Building Area the can use 3G and 4G.
Working oder 3G are the Cheapest solution.

 

[K5MPH]

Seriously, are you comparing DECT and WiFi to a real land mobile radio system?

I had to explain this to people at work when we replaced our trunked system. Big difference between capabilities, coverage, reliability, etc.

You right about that.......

 

[mmckenna]

Sure. Radio make no sense for me in a Hospital/ Hotel/ Conferencing Area.
yes all points for Wifi and DECT system.Outside a Building Area the can use 3G and 4G.
Working oder 3G are the Cheapest solution.

Right, in small locations/campuses, WiFi/DECT is a good option if you have the infrastructure to support the number of access points you need. In all our new construction we space jacks out to satisfy the needs for WiFi access points. Trouble is that future WiFi modes will be higher bandwidth but less distance. That means more access points, closer spacing, etc. We're now considering adding a ceiling jack in every single room to support this.
DECT is a bit better. We're playing with a multi user DECT node right now. Coverage is pretty good, lots of channels, pretty good building penetration.
Of course all this stuff needs reliable power. When you are looking at a small building, putting in a POE capable Ethernet switch or two and a big UPS isn't that big a deal. When you are looking at hundreds of buildings spread over several miles, that's a huge issue.

Of course all this depends on the network being available, reliable and properly designed if you intend to use this in any sort of emergency. The risk with data network based systems is that they can be a target for hackers. Network design plays in (QOS, priority, etc). Power back up on all the data network is important, that means all the routers, edge network, access points, etc.

Speaking of emergencies, this can be an issue for 3G/4G/cellular. Unless you are using priority access, you can get blocked by cell site congestion. Also, relying on someone else for your coverage, especially someone you have zero control over, can be problematic. Usually customers are unaware of when a cell site goes down, but it does happen. Again, they rely on rock steady power, something that isn't always available. Battery backup at a cell site can be minimal, and not all sites have back up generators. Backhaul can be problematic, too.

For some larger installations, A dedicated two way radio system can be much cheaper. A single site can be on a back up generator and large battery back up a whole lot easier/cheaper than trying to put several network nodes/buildings on this. There is zero reliance on outside carriers. The owner has 100% control of the system. My trunked system has 8+ hours of battery back up plus a generator with several days worth of fuel. The entire system can be isolated from the outside world and still work.

I think you'll see that a lot of non-misson critical systems will go the way you are thinking. Just look at FirstNet. It's probably going to be run by one or more of the big cellular carriers. WiFi will probably be an option at some point. Easier to haul IP around that way.

I do agree though, in a hospital/school there can be a real place of a small WiFi/DECT system if it's designed right and the expectations are realistic.

I doubt you'll see fire/PD carrying around cell phones/WiFi handsets anytime soon, though.

 

[mmckenna]

3) Infrastructure is another Problem. The Repeater cost Money. In lager Buildings (Hospital) and Parkinglots there will be no indor Coverage. That mean several Repeter/ Accespoint must be installed to get a Coverage.
DMR Repeater cost a lot of Money. A Wifi AP cost ~30€, Dect ~100€, DMR ~1000€.

Really depends on the frequencies you are using. Higher frequencies tend to penetrate buildings better than lower frequencies. I've got a couple of 800MHz systems that do pretty well. Single site, and good building penetration into well over 100 buildings located within 2 miles of the repeater. Most of these are heavy concrete/rebar reinforced buildings.

To cover the same building interiors, not including any outdoor coverage, I'd be looking at approximately 3000 wireless access points. Add in the cost of controllers, maintenance, POE, UPS, etc. and my 5 channel trunked system was a steal.

 

[mmckenna]

So why does anyone should buy such a Motorola Radio?
It have a Monthly cost for the Freq, the Device arent cheaper than that Wifi and every else around cost a huge licence fee.

That must be specific to where you live. Here I have licenses that are good for 10 years. We paid for them when we licensed back in 1994, a few hundred bucks. Every 10 years I renew for free, no ongoing costs.

 

[Your_account]

I've got a couple of 800MHz systems that do pretty well. Single site, and good building penetration into well over 100 buildings located within 2 miles of the repeater. Most of these are heavy concrete/rebar reinforced buildings.

Here its called 2G, 3G, 4G... who run on 700mhz (> 2020), 800mhz, 900mhz,....
The Frequency for Landmobile are just 1XXmhz Band and 4XXmhz Band. I use for PMR446 Professional Radio with an "huge" Output Power insted of the original and the range are very poor!

I'd be looking at approximately 3000 wireless access points. Add in the cost of controllers, maintenance, POE, UPS, etc. and my 5 channel trunked system was a steal.

So dont forgett about Monthly cost for the Frequency.
So ~10€ per Radio/ Month (in use or not) + XXX€ per Base Station + XXX€ per Frequency.
The Montly cost are huge for an Hotel, Restaurant, Hospital,...

We paid for them when we licensed back in 1994, a few hundred bucks. Every 10 years I renew for free, no ongoing costs.

You can be happy with. Here in Austria and Europe its different. You have to pay a lot for that shhtt and the Paperwork is huge. And you have to buy it from Certified Reseller. I can belive you might know how much % the add to the Street Price....
I know only 2 Company in my City who use Radio. (exclude Public Safety and Public Transport)
1) are an Tourist Bus Company
2) are an Taxi Company who operate in an "small" Area. The used it only to chat arround and make Phone calls hearable to all drivers.

you get here 1000Min/ 1000SMS and 2GB for 10€/ Monthly. There is quite everywhere Cellphone Coverage.

For some larger installations, A dedicated two way radio system can be much cheaper.

A Radio System cant handle Hundred or Thousand of Phone calls over one Frequency.
Even the Public Transport Company use there Trunked Radio System for short Advice to the Driver and everythink who ned more interaction run over Cellphone.
Even the Police use a (i would say ordinary) Cellphone to check a Licence plate or check Personal Data (Voice only).

 

[mmckenna]

I've heard it's quite different in Europe than it is here. Sounds like you've got a good case for doing what you are trying to do.

Here in the U.S.A. it's different. I've only got 400 radios on my system and 4 voice trunks + 1 control channel are plenty. At 800MHz, building penetration is pretty good.

Many years ago before mobile phones were cheap, many big businesses had either their own 2 way radio system or rented service from a provider. When mobile phones became cheap enough, most of those businesses switched to cellular phones. Most of the radio shops here are long gone and only a few of the larger one remain. A few businesses still use two way radio service, but they are mostly large businesses.

Cell phones really do make a great solution for non-public safety use. Even our officers use their phones quite a bit.

 

[Your_account]

How many simultaneous calls can it handle?
The most 2 per Channel.
Mean just 8 Calls?

Sure in the last 10 Years quite every Company switch to Cellphone. Large Company Pay 1€ per Simcard/ Month with unlimited Voice in the Company and quite Unlimited to other.

 

[mmckenna]

It's a NexEdge NXDN system, so 4 calls at a time. Doesn't sound like much, but when you start looking at traffic engineering/loading/blocking numbers, it's sufficient for 400 radios. I run a large PBX/Phone system also, 6000+ users, about 300 trunks. More than enough when you do the math.