cstockmyer
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 1,411
K4XB said:
Interesting, Thanks!
Denver Provoice
- Thread starter Davemnn
- Start date
- Status
Interesting, Thanks!
cstockmyer
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 1,411
I've got a dumb question. Why does Denver not spend the money to get on the DTRS system, not go with a pro voice system that failed for Aurora.
First, the system didn't fail Aurora. If it had, Aurora woulnd't have written a FAT check to M/A-Com.
Second, Where is Phil????
Third, Charles, use the search feature to read all of the other threads on this subject.
Second, Where is Phil????
Third, Charles, use the search feature to read all of the other threads on this subject.
K4XB
Member
Denver to DTRS = Big bucks
Denver only needs to upgrade a subset of all mobile and portable radios with Provoice. Just what they deem is necessary.
On the other hand, to go on the DTRS system would require replacement of all mobile and portable radios with Motorola equipment. That would involve a sizable sum of money.
I do not necessarily agree that Provoice "failed" for Aurora. It may be true that the audio is different than analog. That is something quickly and easily adjusted to.
K4XB
Real radios glow in the dark
cstockmyer said:
Denver only needs to upgrade a subset of all mobile and portable radios with Provoice. Just what they deem is necessary.
On the other hand, to go on the DTRS system would require replacement of all mobile and portable radios with Motorola equipment. That would involve a sizable sum of money.
I do not necessarily agree that Provoice "failed" for Aurora. It may be true that the audio is different than analog. That is something quickly and easily adjusted to.
K4XB
Real radios glow in the dark
cstockmyer
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 1,411
K4XB said:
Thank you, that I understand.
I agree. Ma-com and provoice did not fail aurora at all. The system that is in place in Aurora is far superior to the system that it replaced. This not because it is an edacs system. It is because this is now a 4 site simulcast system. Drive around with a scanner in your car. You don't have the drop out and noisy signals that are so apparent with denver's and Lakewood's systems.
Even though the system is in analog mode now, it sounds very clear and has great audio whether you are listening through a scanner or through a commercial radio.
When the system was in provoice mode it did a great job. Its just that the officers on the street were ill informed and never trained on what to expect from the system. Sure it might not have been as clear of audio as the dtrs system provides. But it was very good and was doing its job.
The fault to this provoice system was in the management level for not preparing users as to what to expect.
At least that is my opinion.
Even though the system is in analog mode now, it sounds very clear and has great audio whether you are listening through a scanner or through a commercial radio.
When the system was in provoice mode it did a great job. Its just that the officers on the street were ill informed and never trained on what to expect from the system. Sure it might not have been as clear of audio as the dtrs system provides. But it was very good and was doing its job.
The fault to this provoice system was in the management level for not preparing users as to what to expect.
At least that is my opinion.
K4XB
Member
Provoice characteristics
Although I have never heard from Aurora Provoice users, that is as likely an explanation as any other.
Provoice can be perceived as inferior if a user is in the field with a perfectly clear signal which then cuts off entirely. But really, that is not a problem. With the error correction in Provoice it is going to sound clear until the Bit Error Rate (BER) exceeds the ability of the decoder to correct and recover audio. When the BER is too high, the signal abruptly stops.
During my tests of Provoice vs. analog, I found the Provoice extended the usable range of a portable. Sure, with analog, you could hear bits and pieces of a conversation through the static at the range limit. Does anyone in public safety want to "guess" at what the message is coming through at the noise level? That could cause its own set of problems.
K4XB
Real radios glow in the dark
k0pwo said:
Although I have never heard from Aurora Provoice users, that is as likely an explanation as any other.
Provoice can be perceived as inferior if a user is in the field with a perfectly clear signal which then cuts off entirely. But really, that is not a problem. With the error correction in Provoice it is going to sound clear until the Bit Error Rate (BER) exceeds the ability of the decoder to correct and recover audio. When the BER is too high, the signal abruptly stops.
During my tests of Provoice vs. analog, I found the Provoice extended the usable range of a portable. Sure, with analog, you could hear bits and pieces of a conversation through the static at the range limit. Does anyone in public safety want to "guess" at what the message is coming through at the noise level? That could cause its own set of problems.
K4XB
Real radios glow in the dark
rockag41
Member
The City of San Antonio switched to Provoice several years ago. This included PD, FD, EMS and County SO. Now we can hear nothing. No scanner can pick it up. We are the black hole of scanning.
Pray that Denver does not go the same route.
Pray that Denver does not go the same route.
n0doz
Member
Yup, Gary got the job. An excellent choice.
BTW, EEB is no longer part of DPD. It's now part of city telecom.
BTW, EEB is no longer part of DPD. It's now part of city telecom.
K4XB
Member
n0doz said:
When I read the Career Service posting for the position, I had some concerns. The experience and education requirements weighed heavily towards IT, computer, or software skills. I would not want to see the foul ups that kind of background would lead to in radio work. It seems IT people have enough trouble within their area of expertise. Do Colorado State and Denver software fiascos come to mind?
K4XB
Real radios glow in the dark
jfab
Member
How legal is that to carry a edacs portable? I assume I would have to have the PTT button disabled, but how much grief am I going to get from LEO if they see me with it?k0pwo said:
K4XB
Member
jfab said:
There are no regulations in Colorado to prohibit that. Read this below, this covers what you cannot do with the information from your radio.
47 U.S.C. 605.
Unauthorized Publication or Use of Communications
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
§ 605. Unauthorized Publication or Use of Communications
(a) Practices prohibited
Except as authorized by chapter 119, Title 18, no person receiving, assisting in receiving, transmitting, or assisting in transmitting, any interstate or foreign communication by wire or radio shall divulge or publish the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning thereof, except through authorized channels of transmission or reception, (1) to any person other than the addressee, his agent, or attorney, (2) to a person employed or authorized to forward such communication to its destination, (3) to proper accounting or distributing officers of the various communicating centers over which the communication may be passed, (4) to the master of a ship under whom he is serving, (5) in response to a subpena issued by a court of competent jurisdiction, or (6) on demand of other lawful authority. No person not being authorized by the sender shall intercept any radio communication and divulge or publish the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such intercepted communication to any person. No person not being entitled thereto shall receive or assist in receiving any interstate or foreign communication by radio and use such communication (or any information therein contained) for his own benefit or for the benefit of another not entitled thereto. No person having received any intercepted radio communication or having become acquainted with the contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such communication (or any part thereof) knowing that such communication was intercepted, shall divulge or publish the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such communication (or any part thereof) or use such communication (or any information therein contained) for his own benefit or for the benefit of another not entitled thereto. This section shall not apply to the receiving, divulging, publishing, or utilizing the contents of any radio communication which is transmitted by any station for the use of the general public, which relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles, or persons in distress, or which is transmitted by an amateur radio station operator or by a citizens band radio operator.
K4XB
Real radios glow in the dark
N
N_Jay
Guest
jfab said:
Unless your state or city has a STUPID anti-scanner law, there is NOTHING illegal against owning, carrying, listening to, a radio of any kind, no matter what frequencies (except cellular and other phone frequencies) are programmed in. (as long as it is obtained legally).
IT Taking over radio
I have gone on the record many times that this is one of the goofiest trends in technology today.
In charge of the communications department is now someone who has probably never used a two way radio in their life, let alone had to have their life depend on the proper functioning of the system.
I can harp on this for hours and bore you all to tears. This is another it ain't broke, so don't fix it situations.
They stopped using commisioned police officers in Denver to save money. At the time, you needed a second class radiotelegraph license. pass the test, were commissioned, qualified to use a gun, paid sergeants pay and life was good.
rfburns said:
I have gone on the record many times that this is one of the goofiest trends in technology today.
In charge of the communications department is now someone who has probably never used a two way radio in their life, let alone had to have their life depend on the proper functioning of the system.
I can harp on this for hours and bore you all to tears. This is another it ain't broke, so don't fix it situations.
They stopped using commisioned police officers in Denver to save money. At the time, you needed a second class radiotelegraph license. pass the test, were commissioned, qualified to use a gun, paid sergeants pay and life was good.
Combining disciplines under one job title is definately the trend here in the metro area. Radio, computers and security electronics (cameras, doors, alarms, etc) are falling under "tech services" with many agencies these days.
In the case of Denver, the EEB has maintained the mobile computers in the cars (in addition to the radio system) since about 1995. I can say that the folks at the EEB are all fully qualified to do both, so It's not a case of "IT people maintaining the radio system".
In the case of Denver, the EEB has maintained the mobile computers in the cars (in addition to the radio system) since about 1995. I can say that the folks at the EEB are all fully qualified to do both, so It's not a case of "IT people maintaining the radio system".
rfburns
Member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Messages
- 1,029
Watching Those Girls
And the Superintendents (such as Bob D.) were Lt.'s. There are agencies who are studying arming their telecomm specs. In one particular case the specialists who were doing a remote sensor installation, encountered bad guys who were armed with AK-47's. I know of another RF worker who had a handgun held to his head. It's not as safe working in the field as it use to be.kc0kp said:
jfab
Member
Interesting! Thank you both! Would you have to make any mod's to the radio?N_Jay said:
N
N_Jay
Guest
jfab said:
Nope. I can walk around all day with a radio that can transmit on any frequency. What is illegal is TRANSMITTING.
jfab
Member
Good to know! Thank you!N_Jay said:
- Status
