Department issued radio

[katt02]

Hi all,
I am wondering if I could get in any trouble from police, local or state, for having my own portable radio. It is used mainly for a fire department and GMRS; and it does have the capability to receive police. If I were to be pulled over could they confiscate this radio or give me a ticket for it? I know NJ is very relaxed on scanner laws, and i would hope its the same for a handheld transceiver.


Thanks

 

[doctordialtone]

Hi all,
I am wondering if I could get in any trouble from police, local or state, for having my own portable radio.

A "Hobbyist" site is not the best place to get reliable legal advice, but generally speaking, if you remain low key and out of the way, and don't attract attention to yourself, you'll most likely be OK.

Check your local laws.

 

[KK4JUG]

Trouble? Probably not but it doesn't sound like a wise move. Too much could happen.

 

[ten13]

In NJ, having the radio during a commission of a crime (a crime that the radio holder is committing) is illegal.

it does have the capability to receive police.

Is it programmed to transmit on the police? I would hope not.

Otherwise, while legal, I would highly recommend using discretion before waving the radio around, either in a car or at the scene of something. Since everything seems to fall under the heading of "possible terrorist" or "terrorism" these days with the police (when they have nothing else to hang their hats on), why make yourself a potential target?

 

[APX8000]

You title is “department issued” but your post says it’s your personally owned. My old EMS Agency when I first started only had radios for the Duty crew. Many of us bought our own radios and they were programmed with whatever we were authorized for.


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[KK4JUG]

...And the officer asks, "Why do you have a radio that talks to the police?" If the law prohibits you from having a scanner, it probably reads something to the effect of "a radio capable of picking up police frequencies" or something similar. Either way, you could be in trouble.

As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, it probably has "trouble" written all over it.

 

[APX8000]

You also mentioned GMRS which I’m assuming either you or a family member is licensed for. So, you are good to go if you have GMRS frequencies programmed in even though it’s technically capable of receiving the Police. Now, would I have PD channels in the same radio with TX capability....I’d say it’s a slippery slope. As far as the FD, if your Chief says you can have a portable on the Department channels, I’d say you’re good to go there too.


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[poltergeisty]

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't do it unless I kept the radio at home. If you do, see if you can program the channels for RX only. Again, and as mentioned, it really is a slippery slope. Especially given law enforcement can be overzealous and in fact don't know all of the laws and what have you even though you may be able to carry an HT with dispatch programed in it. But like mentioned you'd have to read the law, and at that I would seek professional legal advice. If an attorney does state you can do it, keep a copy of that statute or law on hand should you need to show law enforcement.

Just use a scanner. When I had a two way and got stopped on my mountain bike, the cop was all curious and asking me who was on the other end and all this crap. So there you go.

 

[ecps92]

The Subject line indicates "Department Issued"
If an Official issued Radio, then there should be No issues.

But with the body of the message talking of GMRS, sounds like the subject line needs to be changed

Hi all,
I am wondering if I could get in any trouble from police, local or state, for having my own portable radio. It is used mainly for a fire department and GMRS; and it does have the capability to receive police. If I were to be pulled over could they confiscate this radio or give me a ticket for it? I know NJ is very relaxed on scanner laws, and i would hope its the same for a handheld transceiver.


Thanks

 

[mondaro]

I Think there are some FCC violations involved here too, be careful

 

[R8000]

Clearly, the solution is to just move out of NJ. Don't bother with NY, they are just as strict

 

[KevinC]

It's also clear the thread title has nothing to do with his question.

 

[902]

Some things I learned a long time ago -
1) Have a letter - on official letterhead - from your chief stating you are authorized to have and use a radio on their channel. That's basically a requirement of FCC Part 90. I wrote those kinds of letters for my firefighters when I was a volunteer fire chief. It came with the territory. Bonus points for your chief sharing a current copy with the police chief, just as a courtesy.
2) Keep a copy of that letter, your departmental ID, and your GMRS license in the glovebox right next to your registration and insurance. Get it all out if asked-for. Count on your ID getting called-in and checked for being current.
3) Don't put "other stuff" in the radio, unless you have specific authorization for it.
4) Don't talk on it while driving. Be low-key. Don't try to pretend to be anything you are not.
5) Be cooperative and respectful when stopped. Yes sir (ma'am), no sir (ma'am). No, "I'm on the job" stuff.

That's it. No magic there. You have equipment your chief signed off on, you have a license for your personal channels, you don't have anything you're not supposed to have, you didn't use your equipment in a potentially hazardous manner, and you didn't turn a bad day into a worse day or play "Philadelphia lawyer." All reasonable stuff.

And (no, I don't want to get into scanner laws...), I don't recall NJ ever being "relaxed" on scanner laws. Then again, I moved out 23 years ago.

 

[902]

When I had a two way and got stopped on my mountain bike, the cop was all curious and asking me who was on the other end and all this crap. So there you go.

I use radios with my wife and kids all the time (we're all hams). I also get curious people asking me who I'm talking to all the time. I tell them. Most of the time they ask if my stuff works better than theirs (It usually does.)

 

[scannersnstuff]

Absolutely, get a letter. Don't transmit on any frequency you are not authorized for. Discretion - Always .

 

[mmckenna]

902 nailed it. If you don't pay any attention to the other posts, pay attention to his.

Here's the background on it.

The FCC license issued to your Volunteer Fire Department authorizes the department to operate a specific number of radios on specific frequencies in a specific geographical area for a specific purpose. You, as a volunteer fire fighter, do NOT have an FCC license that covers you on those frequencies. When you are working under the direction of the department, you can utilize their radios to perform your duties.

FCC Rule 90.427 covers this. eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations
What it says is:
§90.427 Precautions against unauthorized operation.
(a) Each transmitter shall be so installed and protected that it is not accessible to or capable of operation by persons other than those duly authorized by and under the control of the licensee. Provisions of this part authorizing certain unlicensed persons to operate stations, or authorizing unattended operation of stations in certain circumstances, shall not be construed to change or diminish in any respect the responsibility of station licensees to maintain control over the stations licensed to them (including all transmitter units thereof), or for the proper functioning and operation of those stations and transmitter units in accordance with the terms of the licenses of those stations.

(b) Except for frequencies used in accordance with §90.417, no person shall program into a transmitter frequencies for which the licensee using the transmitter is not authorized.


Again, the part that often gets ignored is that you do not have a license for those frequencies. Only the department does. You do need to have something in writing from your chief, as 902 said, that specifically says that the holder of the license is giving you authorization to have their (and only their) frequencies programmed into your radio. Without that piece of paper, you would be operating outside the FCC rules.

No, the local police isn't likely to throw you in the slammer for that. They aren't even likely to take your radio away, or anything else. But, if push comes to shove, it is an FCC rule and you could be busted for it. Since it is really easy to just get a letter from your chief, it's a good idea to do that and keep it with you. That will remove any question. Also, have your chief file a copy in your record at the department.

Note that in the FCC rule linked to above, there is no waiver given to volunteer fire fighters, reserve officers, amateur radio operator, friend of the chief, or anyone else. The rule is very clear.

Some more reading, if you feel like it: 90.421 eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

With GMRS, you shouldn't have an issue. As 902 said, keep a copy of your license with you. Don't use a hand held radio while driving. Basically look at the "distracted driving" laws for your state and follow those.

 

[Danny37]

I mean security guards use radios, construction guys, and a bunch of other jobs use two-way radios to communicate with each other out in public. I've walked around with my radio on film sets in NYC, never got into trouble. even going to the bodega in my street clothes across from the ambulance station I volly at.

Now listening to Public safety out loud and walking around like "you're official" will probably get you in a jam. Don't walk around listening to police, fire, EMS with your volume all the way up. Use earpieces, etc (discreet listening)

If you have PS programmed it, it should be programmed for recieve only. Most radios offer this feature. If you're authorized to be on YOUR agencies frequency with your own personal radio to transmit, get a copy of authorization and have it on you at all times, including other official documents you may have etc. (GMRS license, work badge)

 

[wtp]

i think he lives in Pennsylvania and was asking about New Jersey.

 

[habfleet]

FIRST QUESTION TO YOU IS IF IT IS DEPARTMENT ISSUED IM ASSUMING YOUR AUTHORIZED TO USE IT ALONG WITH ANY FREQS> THAT MAY BE PROGRAMMED IN IT . SO WHY ASKED THIS QUESTION ?? IF YOU MAY HAVE FOUND A WAY TO PROGRAM OTHER FREQS IN IT THAT HAD NOT BEEN "OFFICIALY PROGRAMMED" YOUR GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS . IF IT ALL ON THE UP AND UP (OFFICIALLY ) NO PROBLEM !!

 

[kayn1n32008]

FIRST QUESTION TO YOU IS IF IT IS DEPARTMENT ISSUED IM ASSUMING YOUR AUTHORIZED TO USE IT ALONG WITH ANY FREQS> THAT MAY BE PROGRAMMED IN IT . SO WHY ASKED THIS QUESTION ?? IF YOU MAY HAVE FOUND A WAY TO PROGRAM OTHER FREQS IN IT THAT HAD NOT BEEN "OFFICIALY PROGRAMMED" YOUR GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS . IF IT ALL ON THE UP AND UP (OFFICIALLY ) NO PROBLEM !!

No need to yell.


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