Discussion: FCC Advisory on Two-Way VHF/UHF Radios

[BaoFeng_Blogger]

BaoFeng...

My offer still stands. If anyone has a BaoFunk needing a tuneup, send it my way, I have a shiny new 15 LB sledge hammer.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

BaoFeng... When only the best will do!

BaoFeng Blogger KN4OTS

 

[prcguy]

The same thing can happen with an inexpensive used and easy to FPP Bendix/King hand held, or a Racal/Thales T25 or an old Icom U16/H16 or a list of commercial quality radios with FPP option that are now cheap surplus.

I saw first hand the mayhem these garbage radios can cause.

I was getting my CLAWR access card renewed today to do some work on the Cold Lake Air Weapons Range. While waiting for the ladies to process my paper work, a guy came in with a Baofeng hand held. In order to work off of the ‘high grade’ you must have a VHF-FM radio with 5 repeaters programmes, or have a UHF Capacity Plus mobile(Cenovus is in the process of moving all users, except for helicopters to their DMR system) He was asking for the frequencies so he could program his radio. Well it seems he had the frequencies but not the PL tones for the repeaters. While not life and death, this guy had zero business programming a radio to operate on a LMR system, and was told to contact one of two local radio companies for help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kayn1n32008]

The same thing can happen with an inexpensive used and easy to FPP Bendix/King hand held, or a Racal/Thales T25 or an old Icom U16/H16 or a list of commercial quality radios with FPP option that are now cheap surplus.

Agreed. Except none of those radios are natively able to FPP, there is a key sequence to access FPP. The Baoturd radios just do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I think there are many caveats to this discussion and here is what I think is the core problem.

Some Baofeng and similar radios were FCC certified for Part 90 use at some point early on. The original UV-5Rs that I purchased from a legit dealer arrived with VFO enabled for the 2m and 70cm bands only and any other frequencies needed to be programmed via a computer with software, there was no way to go out of the amateur bands without programming it like you would with a Motorola or Kenwood commercial radio. In this mode the radio should be Part 97 and Part 90 compliant.

The rest of the world has access to wide open VFO mode UV-5Rs and competing models that do not meet US specs and with no legitimate FCC Part 90 certification due to the live VFO mode. These have made their way to the US via offshore distributors and greedy or unknowing US sellers trying to make $$ and these wide open radios have flooded the US market and spoiled the pool of otherwise legit radios. Now we have a mix of legal and illegal radios and its impossible to tell the difference without turning them all on and testing.

Now what to do? Weed out all the grey market radios with live VFO mode and let the legit Part 90 radios live on or ban them all?

As I recall, the early BaoFengs spawned a bunch of counterfeit "clones" that were identical, adding to the confusion. You really don't know what you are getting.

Sort of like my blood pressure medicine from China. It was recalled last month due to a carcinogenic contamination. They won't say how much of it or for how long I have been poisoned. A Chinese guy from the company called me asking for the bottle back! I told him NO, that I was giving it to my lawyer!

 

[Evolve]

Good thing I ordered mine yesterday.

Just got 15 more on Monday, and Tuesday everything from Dual, Tri, and Quad banders from both BaoFeng, and BTECH. All Frequcies still intact! There are also several ways to get them direct without the American middleman if need be. #DontTreadOnMe

 

[TheSpaceMann]

Why are they still available and still being sold? Heard some new ones on the air just today!

 

[KK4JUG]

Just got 15 more on Monday, and Tuesday everything from Dual, Tri, and Quad banders from both BaoFeng, and BTECH. All Frequcies still intact! There are also several ways to get them direct without the American middleman if need be. #DontTreadOnMe

You must be proud.

 

[Hans13]

Why are they still available and still being sold? Heard some new ones on the air just today!

My information could be outdated but I thought it was just focused on Baofengtech.us? At least, that's what I was telling people from what I read at the time.

 

[n1das]

Just got 15 more on Monday, and Tuesday everything from Dual, Tri, and Quad banders from both BaoFeng, and BTECH. All Frequcies still intact! There are also several ways to get them direct without the American middleman if need be. #DontTreadOnMe

15 to resell or a last time buy to keep a fleet of them for yourself?

I've seen bundle deals advertised with a note at the bottom from the seller saying they don't know if and when any more them will be available. Get 'em while you can!



Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk

 

[n1das]

Why are they still available and still being sold? Heard some new ones on the air just today!

Baofeng is the only one we've heard about so far. There may be others in the works that we haven't heard about yet.

Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk

 

[kayn1n32008]

You must be proud.

I bet he is proud of not caring about the crap he puts on the air.

15 more pieces of garbage polluting the RF spectrum with garbage spurs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hans13]

Has there been something more issued by the FCC that I've missed or forgotten or is it still under the caption: "In the Matter of Amcrest Industries, LLC d/b/a Baofengradio.us"?

From the beginning, this has appeared to be speaking loudly and carrying a little stick. It never seemed to be this broad stroke "get 'em while you can." hysteria that continues to be shoveled.

Seriously, when this was first released by the FCC and I heard some hams and "news" sources, my eyes were rolling. They've been rolling so much about this since that I'm sea sick. Any radioman or prepper I encounter seems to want to tell me how either I should "get them while I can" or "this whole mess is about to be cleaned up."

Is there some new information?

 

[Hans13]

Baofeng is the only one we've heard about so far.

Correction... "Amcrest Industries, LLC d/b/a Baofengradio.us". That's a specific importer of Baofeng products; not all.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Has there been something more issued by the FCC that I've missed or forgotten or is it still under the caption: "In the Matter of Amcrest Industries, LLC d/b/a Baofengradio.us"?

From the beginning, this has appeared to be speaking loudly and carrying a little stick. It never seemed to be this broad stroke "get 'em while you can." hysteria that continues to be shoveled.

Seriously, when this was first released by the FCC and I heard some hams and "news" sources, my eyes were rolling. They've been rolling so much about this since that I'm sea sick. Any radioman or prepper I encounter seems to want to tell me how either I should "get them while I can" or "this whole mess is about to be cleaned up."

Is there some new information?

Sounds like the so called gun ban where Obama was supposedly "going to take away all your gins so stock up". That never happened.

The world won't end if BaoFeng radios dry up. They are crap and for a reasonably low price you can buy a used Motorola public safety grade radio. Or you can buy a very decent radio for $350 new.

 

[MTS2000des]

The world won't end if BaoFeng radios dry up. They are crap and for a reasonably low price you can buy a used Motorola public safety grade radio. Or you can buy a very decent radio for $350 new.

Never understood the attraction to the low rent Chinese radios. All of them are pretty much the same internally, based on the low cost RDA1846/1847 "walkie talkie on chip" SLIC, just different plastic shells.

The same $50 can get one into a quality, type accepted used LMR radio with decade or more of usable life left. For GMRS, the Kenwood TK-350G is not just part 90, but part 95 certified as well. (Many Kenwood and Icom LMR radios from the 1990s on up are 95 certified). Cheap batteries, cheap accessories, software is easy to obtain as are programming cables, and the radios are built like a tank but not giant bricks. They'll outperform a turdy WOC radio and won't go deaf when near a wireless router nor put out spurs all up and down the band.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Never understood the attraction to the low rent Chinese radios. All of them are pretty much the same internally, based on the low cost RDA1846/1847 "walkie talkie on chip" SLIC, just different plastic shells.

The same $50 can get one into a quality, type accepted used LMR radio with decade or more of usable life left. For GMRS, the Kenwood TK-350G is not just part 90, but part 95 certified as well. (Many Kenwood and Icom LMR radios from the 1990s on up are 95 certified). Cheap batteries, cheap accessories, software is easy to obtain as are programming cables, and the radios are built like a tank but not giant bricks. They'll outperform a turdy WOC radio and won't go deaf when near a wireless router nor put out spurs all up and down the band.

I agree with all above.

But beware, some BF Cultists will probably chime in to distract your thread and point out that the latest Baofeng model BFUV59zzz with air horn and fog lights is on sale at Bangood for $12 a pair - must act now.

The Kenwood TK-350G is a pretty well built radio..According to FCC certification, it does true wide band 16K0F3E and narrow band 11K0F3E so you can run wide band as God intended on the 25 KHz channels and narrow band on the 12.5 KHz interstitials (*) (where NB should remain). Also it will do 4W, 2W and 1W so you can use with GMRS on the high power and FRS on low power giving not only spirit of the law, but battery savings on long outings. Kenwood is reputable and their specs are most likely as advertised.

link to article about this radio:

ts-60s

It has scan, DTMF capability (keypad option), repeat talk around switch. I am adding it to my list of worthy radios.

(*) not entirely clear if NB can be set on a per channel basis from the software snapshot.

 

[MTS2000des]

Yep, NB is selected on a per channel basis. The VHF version does NB but not splinter channels. This is why many of them are on the market. Still good radios for ham and part 90 NB if you aren't on a splinter channel. The radios have solid front ends, unlike the road apple WOC radios, and won't go deaf in the presence of RF from DC to daylight. They also have some of the best TX audio of any Kenwood radio of that era.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Yep, NB is selected on a per channel basis. The VHF version does NB but not splinter channels. This is why many of them are on the market. Still good radios for ham and part 90 NB if you aren't on a splinter channel. The radios have solid front ends, unlike the road apple WOC radios, and won't go deaf in the presence of RF from DC to daylight. They also have some of the best TX audio of any Kenwood radio of that era.

Is it true these have an albeit Klunky, FPP feature?

 

[AK9R]

Folks, let's get back onto the topic of the FCC advisory. Thanks.

 

[Stretchman]

According to the FCC advisory, these radios are not to be used until they are brought into spec for part 97, even though they are part 90 certified. In the codeplug I use for my DMR radio, I programmed the band edges to 144-148 for VHF, and 440-450 FOR UHF.

I cannot use the vfo to enter any frequency outside this range. It can be programmed to do the GMRS freqs, and I have a license, but it isn't part 95, mostly due to the 20khz vs. 25 khz of wideband fm. So, using it on gmrs is a no go.

While the ban on Baofeng/Pofung and the company they cited is specific, the outright ban on using these radios on the air is not. At least, not until they are brought to within spec. I guess I am trying to say, that for HAMs, it should be easy enough to do. Realistically, it should be accomplished in firmware, as it would be nice to have wideband rx, and you can inhibit tx for frequencies outside the range, but to do this in software would be time consuming, and still not guarantee that the radio could be properly spec'd to guard against unauthorized tx outside of the amateur spectrum.

It is doable with the right software, and since the market share relies heavily on HAM operators that utilize this equipment legally, I see no reason whatsoever why they cannot be brought into compliance for the amateur use. It is ultimately up to the companies that make and distribute these radios to comply.