Discussion: FCC Advisory on Two-Way VHF/UHF Radios

[n1das]

They will never be "Part 97 compliant" because there is no formal Part 97 certification. They already are legal as ham equipment when used by licensed hams on the ham bands. Transmitting with them outside the ham bands for other radio services (i.e., GMRS) even if licensed is another story.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk

 

[AK9R]

According to the FCC advisory, these radios are not to be used until they are brought into spec for part 97...Realistically, it should be accomplished in firmware...

Can the spurious emissions that some of these radios emit be addressed through a firmware upgrade? I'm skeptical.

They will never be "Part 97 compliant" because there is no formal Part 97 certification. They already are legal as ham equipment when used by licensed hams on the ham bands.

First off, there is Part 97 certification for "external RF power amplifiers". See §97.315(a). Making a blanket statement that there is no formal Part 97 certification is not entirely true.

Secondly, §97.307 specifies transmitter emission standards that all amateur radio transmitters operated in FCC jurisdictions must meet. While amateur radio transmitters are not FCC certificated for compliance with §97.307, they still must meet the rule.

Spurious emissions was not addressed by this FCC advisory, but the rule still exists and amateur radio operators are still expected to abide by it. In my experience, some of the radios addressed by the advisory meet the rule and some don't.

 

[Hans13]

Can the spurious emissions that some of these radios emit be addressed through a firmware upgrade? I'm skeptical.

Yeah, I doubt that too. The VFO issue? Absolutely. The dirty Tx? Not so much.

 

[emcomm]

Those small BAOFENG's like the UV5R are used unofficially by the NYPD and the US Coast Guard Police in NYC, and I can only imagine what other agencies use them too. They use them for situational awareness. The USCG patrols two facilities on Staten Island, so they monitor the local precincts; many NYPD guys use them after hours or when they aren't on a tour, so they know what's going on in their neighborhood, etc. They're cheaper and more compact than a scanner. BTW, I have not seen ebay or Amazon pull them off the shelves yet, in relation to the FCC advisory.

 

[Hans13]

Those small BAOFENG's like the UV5R are used unofficially by the NYPD and the US Coast Guard Police in NYC, and I can only imagine what other agencies use them too. They use them for situational awareness. The USCG patrols two facilities on Staten Island, so they monitor the local precincts; many NYPD guys use them after hours or when they aren't on a tour, so they know what's going on in their neighborhood, etc. They're cheaper and more compact than a scanner. BTW, I have not seen ebay or Amazon pull them off the shelves yet, in relation to the FCC advisory.

That's amazing. I never would have thought that it was regular practice. Thanks for the information.

It is the FCC just restating what's in the rules already. I really think the whole thing has been over-blown by Chicken Little types and the uninformed. Although, I could be wrong... YMMV

 

[Flatshovel]

Hello, been following the discussion. In reading the posts I understand what the FCC is trying to do. However the question that I have is, is there a list of radios that consumers can refer to that are compliant & non-compliant? I have been shopping around online and see on-site say that it's not compliant while another says nothing about it. A list of radios would be nice. Any suggestions?



Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[nd5y]

As far as I know the FCC does not publish a list.
All you can do is find out if a particlular radio has an FCC ID number then look up the FCC ID at https://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid or https://fccid.io to see what certifications the radio has.

 

[MTS2000des]

However the question that I have is, is there a list of radios that consumers can refer to that are compliant & non-compliant?

Unfortunately not. This is why the FCC should have acted years ago and failed. The marketplace is now filled with counterfeit, forgeries and knock-offs being peddled by here today, gone tomorrow sellers much akin to the "white van speaker" sellers in Wal-Mart parking lots selling flashy packaged hi-fi gear that is nothing but utter garbage.

My advice is always buy the SELLER and not the item. Reputable sellers will offer returns if you receive an item that turns out to be phony baloney.

Or buy products from established manufacturers such as Icom, JVC Kenwood, Relm, Motorola, Harris, EF Johnson, Uniden, etc. and from an authorized dealer. Sure, one may pay more, but this is about the only guaranteed way to get a genuine, FCC certified radio.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Hello, been following the discussion. In reading the posts I understand what the FCC is trying to do. However the question that I have is, is there a list of radios that consumers can refer to that are compliant & non-compliant? I have been shopping around online and see on-site say that it's not compliant while another says nothing about it. A list of radios would be nice. Any suggestions?

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

You will be hard pressed to find a list that is accurate by model number. You need to ask the seller what the FCC ID number is and whether it is on the factory label of the radio.

When you search for the number on the FCC website pay particular attention to the" grant". Is it for the specific radio service you desire? Is the power level correct? Is the emmission designator proper? It should be 11K0F3E for narrow band and 16K0F3E or 20K0F3E for wideband. If they differ then I would be wary. Radioreference.com and APCO maintain a glossary of emission designators so you can see what technology they support. Many of the cheap low parts count radios have oddball emission designators because apparently reducing bandwidth is the only way the radios will meet the emission masks the FCC requires for services like Part 90 and Part 95. It is akin to limiting the power of a cars engine because the brakes are poor.

If the radio arrives and has no FCC factory ID label or is different, send it back for a refund.

I have seen radios granted for FCC part 9 or FCC part 95.210 which are meaningless. These seem to be fraudulent attempts at circumventing the FCC approval process. Compounding this is the FCC being asleep at the wheel, putting entire trust in the testing labs using proper procedures to perform and file the testing. There seems to be an industry wide problem with labs that simply want to plea$e their client$. The Chinese low parts count radios seem to have the most suspicious FCC approvals.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[AK9R]

It should be 11K0F3E for narrow band and 16K0F3E or 20K0F3E for wideband.

Also watch the power level in the FCC certification. If the seller claims it's a 5 watt radio, but the certification is at 1 watt, be very careful as the radio may not meet the rules when run at the higher power.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Also watch the power level in the FCC certification. If the seller claims it's a 5 watt radio, but the certification is at 1 watt, be very careful as the radio may not meet the rules when run at the higher power.

It is a hot mess out there.

It is far easier to simply avoid the cheap stuff and instead simply go with reputable brands.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[kayn1n32008]

It is a hot mess out there.

It is far easier to simply avoid the cheap stuff and instead simply go with reputable brands.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

The problem is cheap-*** hams and cheap-*** businesses insist on buying these garbage dump radios.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MTS2000des]

The problem is cheap-*** hams and cheap-*** businesses insist on buying these garbage dump radios.

I don't see hams and cheap radios as much of an issue as consumers buying these turdbox radios that, out of the box, are on part 90 LMR frequencies that are often in active use for public safety and businesses. Most hams (I said MOST because there are some lids who truly don't know!) KNOW not to transmit outside of where they are authorized to, but Joe Consumer just buys "walkie talkies" and sees the bogus "FCC" logo on the box and "FCC approved" on the Ebay/Amazon listings and buys them not knowing they are not only violating Federal law, but could be interfering with someone else, including IDLH communications.

 

[k6cpo]

Every hobby has its cheap parts and accessories. I learned the hard way not to buy cheap when photography was my primary hobby. Too many amateur photographers would buy a $3,000 top-of-the-line digital camera and then add a $50 battery grip to it. They'd then whine at length online when the battery grip got jammed on the camera.


The only reason I have a Baofeng is because it was a raffle prize at a club meeting. It hasn't been used very much since I got it, and after I read about the spectral purity issues, it hasn't been used at all. I take it down periodically to clean the dust off it, but that's all. I'm seriously thinking about donating it to my club for a raffle prize.

 

[cmdrwill]

Most hams (I said MOST because there are some lids who truly don't know!) KNOW not to transmit outside of where they are authorized to, (snip).

Was that even on the ham test?

 

[belvdr]

Was that even on the ham test?

Yes, it is in the pool.

 

[icom1020]

It's not just "cheap hams" Oregon DEQ around Portland is using these to route driver's into lanes for emissions tests

 

[TheSpaceMann]

So the FCC declaration has had little to no effect?

 

[alcahuete]

It's not just "cheap hams" Oregon DEQ around Portland is using these to route driver's into lanes for emissions tests

People, businesses and agencies included, are tired of paying Motorola prices, plain and simple. What hasn't really been mentioned in this thread, is that there is also a huge influx of businesses resorting to the bubble pack GMRS as well. It isn't just the CCRs. It all comes down to price.

There used to be reasonable radios...I have a closet full of them. Ranger made the color dot business radios, Motorola had color dot/business radios, and all were very reasonably priced. There are still some off-brands out there that are reasonable, but you're still over $100 for most of them.

The business owner up the street from me needed 6 radios for his store. He bought Baofengs. They work great for his purposes and cost him $10 a piece. What business owner would not go for a deal like that? It's fiscally responsible.

As I also mentioned earlier in the thread, a local school district could buy 100 throw-away CCRs or more for the price of 1 Motorola radio. What would you do if you were in charge of the district's budget? It's a no brainer. They went with the CCRs.

People are not willing to pay exorbitant Motorola prices anymore, and in the day of the interwebs, Motorola no longer has the monopoly they once had. I honestly have a feeling that there are plenty of people here who would still be pissed off at the CCRs even if they were all FCC certified, simply because they aren't Motorola, Kenwood, or Icom.

 

[AK9R]

So the FCC declaration has had little to no effect?

It has raised awareness?

It has made manufacturers/importers/sellers of legitimate radios feel like the FCC has done something about the problem?

It has put the manufacturers/importers/sellers of illegitimate radios on notice that the FCC is watching them and could take additional action?