DMR Encrypted with RAS

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mclove

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ILLEGAL

Thats illegal in the ham band 441.93750 (440-450 uhf): DMR Encrypted with RAS with DMR-MARC RID'S DMR ID 3023122 VA3RQ Jon Rorke Oakville Ontario
3023120 VE3RNK Rick Reemeyer Hamilton Ontario Canada Portable sound like no one cares about the laws of ham radio no more so sad ?
 
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Mars_P25

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Thats illegal in the ham band 441.93750 (440-450 uhf): DMR Encrypted with RAS with DMR-MARC RID'S DMR ID 3023122 VA3RQ Jon Rorke Oakville Ontario
3023120 VE3RNK Rick Reemeyer Hamilton Ontario Canada Portable sound like no one cares about the laws of ham radio no more so sad ?
Hey mclove,

Just wanted to correct you, as it is NOT illegal to run encryption on the Amateur Radio Service in Canada.

Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada (formerly Industry Canada) regulates the service via SOR/96-484. Section 47 deals with codes and ciphers:

Radiocommunication Regulations

-------------
47 A person who operates radio apparatus in the amateur radio service may only

(b) use a code or cipher that is not secret; and
-------------

Notice it says you may only use a code or cipher that is NOT secret. That means you may use encryption, provided you share the key with others who wish to participate. The regulation only applies to stations licenced to participate in the Amateur Radio Service (or those who enforce the regulations). You are not obliged to provide the key to scanner whackers or others whom are not identified in the regulation.

A "code or cipher" is not secret, if it is shared with others or readily available to others. That is why those who wrote the regulation worded it the way they did, instead of flat out saying "you may not use a code or cipher".
 

gary123

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Also RAS does not encrypt anything. It only allows authorized units to access or monitor the system. Any DMR scanner will pick it up fine.
 

kayn1n32008

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Also RAS does not encrypt anything. It only allows authorized units to access or monitor the system. Any DMR scanner will pick it up fine.

The image shows that privacy is enabled, so it may very well be encrypted. I am not familiar with the program that image came from though.


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DMRAPX

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Kinda of pointless using Motorola 40 bit encryption since people are able to intercept it now.
 

DMRAPX

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Hey mclove,

Just wanted to correct you, as it is NOT illegal to run encryption on the Amateur Radio Service in Canada.

Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada (formerly Industry Canada) regulates the service via SOR/96-484. Section 47 deals with codes and ciphers:

Radiocommunication Regulations

-------------
47 A person who operates radio apparatus in the amateur radio service may only

(b) use a code or cipher that is not secret; and
-------------

Notice it says you may only use a code or cipher that is NOT secret. That means you may use encryption, provided you share the key with others who wish to participate. The regulation only applies to stations licenced to participate in the Amateur Radio Service (or those who enforce the regulations). You are not obliged to provide the key to scanner whackers or others whom are not identified in the regulation.

A "code or cipher" is not secret, if it is shared with others or readily available to others. That is why those who wrote the regulation worded it the way they did, instead of flat out saying "you may not use a code or cipher".
I don't see Rick and Jon making the key available to others.
 

Mars_P25

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I don't see Rick and Jon making the key available to others.
Did you intend to reply to me? I don't know any Rick or Jon.

I'm in Winnipeg. We run encryption on our ham system out here. I make the key available to anyone who has compatible equipment. There are no big secrets; it just cuts down on the coffee shop gossiping.

Back in early 2005, I put a P25 UHF system on ham. DES-OFB. Checked with IC prior to enabling encryption and they didn't care. Switched to DMR in 2013. No complaints or fuss from IC in going on 13 years.

40-bit might be welfare, but it's better than nothing. It keeps mouth breathers from *****ing and complaining about controversial topics they may hear on their cheap Chinese POS radios. I'm all for encryption.
 

Mars_P25

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The image shows that privacy is enabled, so it may very well be encrypted. I am not familiar with the program that image came from though.
I could be wrong, but I think I recognize the format of that log file as being a CSV from DMRDecode. Been a while since I last ran it.
 

mciupa

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gary123 said:
Also RAS does not encrypt anything. It only allows authorized units to access or monitor the system. Any DMR scanner will pick it up fine.
Maybe, I'll give this a listen. I hope they don't read the forums. :p
 
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mikewazowski

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Looks to me like it's a Basic Privacy encrypted DMR signal with nothing else to indicate RAS is needed to access the repeater. I don't even think DMR Decode had the ability to detect RAS.

Probably decided to go encrypted due to all the shenanigans happening in the GTA area on DMR
 

mikewazowski

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Where are you getting the “no RAS, and BP” from

I never said no RAS. I said that there is nothing to indicate that RAS is in use however if this is a DMRDecode file, I'm not sure DMRDecode ever had the ability to indicate RAS is in use.

The OP indicated that the "DRM signal was encrypted with RAS". First of all, it's DMR not DRM and as others have already pointed out, RAS doesn't encrypt a signal. So who really knows what's happening. I think he saw Privacy Enabled and thought that RAS was a form of DMR encryption.

It's definitely encrypted with something and nothing indicates RAS is in use. If somebody actually cares, they would run a more up to date decoder on the signal.
 

gary123

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Mike you are right RAS came in about the time DMR decode stopped updating. I dont think there is a program that currently decodes the LC headers and will output the RAS block. DSD would be my choice for something to do that in the future.

Before everyone gets excited even displaying the contents of a RAS packet will not do any good. The data contained is similar to just a random hex string that changes with every transmission.

If someone wants to create a wav file from a DMR scanner that will tell us if encryption is in use or not. If RAS the audio from the scanner should be legible if encrypted it will sound all digital or the scanner will display ENC and remain muted.
 
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