DSD Windows Port

[w9ran]

Mike, I'm using a 3.4 Ghz Pentium D (Presler CPU) running Win7. CPU utliization runs 20-25% with just SDR# and up to 45% or so when I'm decoding voice with DSD. After messing up VAC and having to reinstall it I'm not getting the best results so far, although I think that's just to tweaking everything from the antenna on down the line.

It's definitely CPU intensive but awfully cool to have all the pieces working to get P25 audio out of a 20 buck TV dongle!

Bob

 

[mk262]

I'm trying to decode a mototrbo conventional frequency and I got all this (lol):


Sync: +DMR mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% slot0 [slot1] RATE 1/2 DATA
Sync: no sync
Sync: +DMR mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% [slot0] slot1 Unknown burst type: 1111

Sync: no sync
Sync: -X2-TDMA mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% src: 0 tg: 0 slot0 [slot1]
MBC
Sync: no sync
Sync: +DMR mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% slot0 [slot1] RATE 1/2 DATA
Sync: no sync
Sync: +NXDN96 mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% VOICE e:=====R=======R==
Sync: no sync
Sync: +DMR mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% slot0 [SLOT1] VOICE e:==========R===E=
===R==========R===================E
Sync: (+DMR) mod: GFSK inlvl: 0% [slot0] slot1 VOICE e:====R====R=====R
====R===============T===========R=====R
Sync: no sync
Sync: -X2-TDMA mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% src: 0 tg: 0 slot0 [slot1]
Unknown burst type: 1101
Sync: no sync
Sync: -X2-TDMA mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% src: 0 tg: 0 [slot0] slot1 Unknown burst type: 1111
Sync: no sync
Sync: +NXDN96 mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% DATA
Sync: no sync
Sync: +NXDN96 mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% DATA
Sync: no sync
Sync: -X2-TDMA mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% src: 0 tg: 0 slot0 [slot1] RATE 1/2 DATA
Sync: no sync
Sync: -NXDN96 mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% DATA
Sync: no sync
Sync: +DMR mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% slot0 [SLOT1] VOICE e:======R=====R====R====RM=========R=====R===E========R
Sync: (+DMR) mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% [slot0] slot1 VOICE e:======R=======R=========R======R=================R
Sync: no sync
Sync: +P25p1 mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% nac: BC5 src: 0 tg: 0 duid:23 *Unknown DUID*
Sync: no sync
Sync: -X2-TDMA mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% src: 0 tg: 0 slot0 [slot1] Unknown burst type: 1101
Sync: no sync
Sync: -P25p1 mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% nac: DC2 src: 0 tg: 0 HDU
Sync: (-P25p1) mod: QPSK inlvl: 0% nac: 899 src: 0 tg: 27147 (LDU1) e:========R=========R=========R========R
M=========R==========R========R========RM=========R
Sync: no sync

Am I picking up faint other users from far away? I'm using a rtlsdr, not a scanner. This was all from one unchanged frequency using my attic st-2 scantenna.

 

[mtindor]

I'm trying to decode a mototrbo conventional frequency and I got all this (lol):

I think you need to increase the audio being fed into DSD, til it gets up to somewhere in the range of 15-40% (the area where I typiccally see the best decode results). Looks like your incoming audio is extremely weak.

Interesting that you see mention of TDMA, NXDN, DMR and P25 all while monitoring the same thing.

If you are wanting to monitor specifically a TRBO sig, try using the -mg -fr switches. And also experiement with -xr (inverting).

I'd probably use: dsd -mg -fr . Then, if it is constantly showing voice and you aren't hearing anything, I'd also consider adding -xr to invert.

Mike

 

[mk262]

I think you need to increase the audio being fed into DSD, til it gets up to somewhere in the range of 15-40% (the area where I typiccally see the best decode results). Looks like your incoming audio is extremely weak.

Interesting that you see mention of TDMA, NXDN, DMR and P25 all while monitoring the same thing.

If you are wanting to monitor specifically a TRBO sig, try using the -mg -fr switches. And also experiement with -xr (inverting).

I'd probably use: dsd -mg -fr . Then, if it is constantly showing voice and you aren't hearing anything, I'd also consider adding -xr to invert.

Mike

Why -mg? I'm only detecting QPSK. Genuinely want to understand.

 

[mtindor]

Why -mg? I'm only detecting QPSK. Genuinely want to understand.

Beats the hell outta me. I just do what seems to work for me. Do it however you wish. I wouldn't know the difference between QPSK, GPSK, TDMA, P25, etc. except to hear it by ear.

Don't use the -mg switch then. But do increase the audio level being fed into DSD.

Mike

 

[mk262]

Beats the hell outta me. I just do what seems to work for me. Do it however you wish. I wouldn't know the difference between QPSK, GPSK, TDMA, P25, etc. except to hear it by ear.

Don't use the -mg switch then. But do increase the audio level being fed into DSD.

Mike

I will boost the volume and see what happens.

 

[mtindor]

I will boost the volume and see what happens.

Whether it's best or not, I usually try to keep an INLVL of 26 or so. That seems to work well for me. I never seem to hvae good results below 10 or above 50. That doesn't mean I never achieve decode, but rather that it's noticeable better if I keep it around 26. Might be different for each system, I dont know. There are too many unknowns with DSD / DMRDecode if ya ask me.

I've been dying for a faster computer to use for this, but I can't justify spending any money on something faster just so I can potentially get better decodes. My PCs work fine for business use. I definitely know that one or the other (DSD or DMRDecode) only makes use of one core, and I think only one or the other makes use of a single thread. I need to pay attention to the task manager when I'm running these things. I need a nice 2nd or 3rd gen i5/i7 hyperthreader.

Mike

 

[MtnBiker2005]

Anyway to release a new version to make DSD Window Port talk with Uniden HomePatrol ?

For HP-1E owners wishing to decode EDACS systems in Unitrunker - this is now possible. Turning the filter off at the raw data output screen passes true discriminator audio to the program.
Thanks Paul!

Someone would need to modify DSD to talk to the HP-1.

RR Topic: http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-scanners/243832-homepatrol-1-v2-03-01-released.html

 

[w9ran]

I read (somewhere) that weak/noisy signals will cause DSD to incorrectly identify the type of modulation in use, specifically C4FM will show up as QPSK. I've found that to get even marginally decent P25 decodes the signal must be very strong and noise-free. I agree with Mike that you definitely need more audio, and you might want to do whatever you can to optimize the RF signal as well.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I noticed something unexpected when attempting to identify a new digital signal on UHF today.

The signal turned out to be TRBO. When decoding uninverted, I got voice (although very choppy). When decoding inverted, I got all sorts of data indicators. It seems as if this signal is both inverted and uninverted at the same time, with different types of data going each way.

If this is the case, then maybe the reason for such poor audio performance is that my 1.2 GHz P5 is just too slow to handle all that is riding on the signal.

 

[mtindor]

I noticed something unexpected when attempting to identify a new digital signal on UHF today.

The signal turned out to be TRBO. When decoding uninverted, I got voice (although very choppy). When decoding inverted, I got all sorts of data indicators. It seems as if this signal is both inverted and uninverted at the same time, with different types of data going each way.

If this is the case, then maybe the reason for such poor audio performance is that my 1.2 GHz P5 is just too slow to handle all that is riding on the signal.

I don't care what anyone tells you, a P5 1.2 Ghz does not have the guts to allow DSD to function at its fullest. Up until today I've used a Core 2 Duo T5750 2 Ghz. I would watch as the CPU would max during decodes and suspected that is what was causing the choppy decodes.

On the laptop I'm using now [with an i7 processor], DSD and DMRDecode are running at the same time use about 7% CPU and the difference decoded audio is a night and day difference.

On the old laptop I used the built-in soundcard, a cheap USB sound stick, a Soundblaster LIve 24-bit USB. Between them all, at least some of the time I had a decent audio card processing. So I have no reason to believe my ability to achieve perfect codes was anything other than lack of horsepower. I also used the same laptop with Ubuntu and similar results on the old laptop.

It's my firm belief that you're just punishing yourself by trying to decode on a P5. I understand why you do. But I don't think you'll ever get great decodes on that setup.

Also -- when decoding UNinverted I'm betting you think you're hearing voice but you really aren't. If you're seeing constant voice decodes when you fire up DSD and can't make sense of a single word, it nearly always means you need to switch to inverted [or vice versa, depending on the audio device you're using]. If you're seeing a bunch of data, it's probably a system where there are GPS users [and quite possibly text messaging]. If somebody on the system has GPS in their vehicles, the GPS data is nearly constant. So seeing constant data likely means you have chosen the right option [inverted / uninverted] and that there's just a lot of GPS. If you''ve got it inverted when it should be uninverted, or vice versa, you'll see constant references to voice and hear stuff that sounds like poorly decoded voice.

Mike

 

[troffasky]

I never seem to hvae good results below 10 or above 50. That doesn't mean I never achieve decode, but rather that it's noticeable better if I keep it around 26.

The inlvl I see reported seems to vary depending on what type of frame it's decoding. It seems to move around without the volume actually being changed.

 

[mtindor]

The inlvl I see reported seems to vary depending on what type of frame it's decoding. It seems to move around without the volume actually being changed.

Agreed. It's not constant, but it's usually fairly close. I mainly monitor TRBO, so for TRBO signals I have found my sweet spot is around "30-34". Get much higher than 34 and it decode goes to hell in a handbasket real quick.

I never estimated a "sweet spot" for P25, but I usually monitor P25 in that same range of INLVL.

Mike

 

[DaveNF2G]

I don't care what anyone tells you, a P5 1.2 Ghz does not have the guts to allow DSD to function at its fullest.

I believe you. Some day I will buy something more powerful. Unfortunately, it is difficult if not impossible to get a dual core machine with Windows XP. I keep reading bad things about later versions of Windows and realtime serial decoding, as well as "broken" drivers.'

As a side question, if I have a choice, which flavor of Windows later than XP is best for this kind of decoding?

Also -- when decoding UNinverted I'm betting you think you're hearing voice but you really aren't. ... If you''ve got it inverted when it should be uninverted, or vice versa, you'll see constant references to voice and hear stuff that sounds like poorly decoded voice.

Mike

I never noticed anyone mentioning this phenomenon before. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[N1KK]

Apco

Hello all

I am new to this. I have a Ezcap SDR-RTL and have it setup for great reception using
SDRSharp. I have it connected to a UHF TV antenna with preamp up at about
60feet.

My local Police switched to APCO 25 and after doing some reading it sounds like
this might be possible to decode with my SDR-RTL Ezcap and some additional
Windows software.

I don't want to take up a lot of space with to many questions so if anyone could
point me to an area that might help with a step by step how to do this I would
appreciate this greatly,.

Thanks
Ken
N1KK

 

[mtindor]

I believe you. Some day I will buy something more powerful. Unfortunately, it is difficult if not impossible to get a dual core machine with Windows XP. I keep reading bad things about later versions of Windows and realtime serial decoding, as well as "broken" drivers.'

As a side question, if I have a choice, which flavor of Windows later than XP is best for this kind of decoding?

Dave,

I'm probably not qualified to say. I've never ever had a problem with Vista 32-bit. I have heard over the years of people having problems with Vista 64-bit drivers though. So far I haven't had a problem with any driver I installed on the Win 7 Home Premium laptop (64-bit OS). DSD runs fine. I haven't tried UT Retro, but modern Unitrunker works fine. I haven'et tried Trunk88. I think with Win 7 (esp 64-bit) there will be problems / a lot of hoop-jumping to get ancient DOS programs to work. That's just what I've read. So beware of that possibility.

I was an XP carryover forever - in fact my contesting machine is XP and will stay like that til it dies. Vista is nice because you can make it look/feel almost exactly like XP. You can't do that with Win 7. The whole underbelly of the GUI appears to be different. If you start adjusting various aspects of Windows 7 GUI to try to make it look like XP/Vista, it looks more like XWindow. There is a "classic" theme in Windows 7, but it doesn't come close to providing the look and feel of XP/Vista.

So if you go with Win 7, be prepared for a real GUI learning curve.

I'd recommend either one, as long as you have a stout enough processor. You don't need 4 cores and hyperthreading. But you need more juice than a 2 Ghz 2-core T5750 (non-HT) CPU will give you. I never tried on my P4 2.8 Ghz single core with hyperthreading to know how that does. It would probably suck too.

Bottom line is I have yet to experience a significant problem with any driver that I installed on various Vista machines (all 32-bit Vista) over the years. Now, I've heard tails of horror from people running 64-bit vista and having driver issues and such. But I would guess that by now any problems with 64-bit vista drivers has been worked out. Hell, maybe all of the people I have heard complain about it were morons to begin with.

I never noticed anyone mentioning this phenomenon before. Thanks for the heads up.

I spent quite a while thinking that what I was hearing was voice traffic that was poorly decoded. Eventually I realized that the nearly constant claims of voice traffic [that I couldn't understand] showing up on the DSD screen was just me having a wrong configuration.

Keep in mind that it appears to be specific to your audio device, not the system you're monitoring. On my internal card on my vista laptop I need to add -xr. On my SoundBlaster Live USB on the same machine, I have to omit the -xr. So the key is to just pay attention to whether it shows nearly constant voice [unintelligible] and then use that as a clue that you need to switch the invertedness.

Mike

 

[DaveNF2G]

The latest machines are being bundled with Windows 7, and upgrade options for Windows 8 are starting to show up.

This is what I'm considering now:

Gateway SX2370-UR10P Desktop PC with AMD Quad-Core A8-3820 Accelerated Processor, 6GB Memory, 1TB Hard Drive and Windows 7 Home Premium with Windows 8 Pro Upgrade Option

Maybe that will be hefty enough...

 

[SCPD]

Dave - you were wise to skip Vista. I think you'll like W7. Don't try to make it look like XP. You'll have to re-learn where the essentials are hidden: locating control panel, selecting a printer, or network adapter.

I'm running W7 64 bit for decoding with an old reburb'd $40 Dell running W2K for ancient software.

 

[mtindor]

The latest machines are being bundled with Windows 7, and upgrade options for Windows 8 are starting to show up.

This is what I'm considering now:

Gateway SX2370-UR10P Desktop PC with AMD Quad-Core A8-3820 Accelerated Processor, 6GB Memory, 1TB Hard Drive and Windows 7 Home Premium with Windows 8 Pro Upgrade Option

Maybe that will be hefty enough...

Well, I'm not a hardware guy, and I have no familiarity whatsoever with AMD. If I compare my T5750 with that processor over at cpubenchmark.net, your AMD is nearly 4x the figure that it lists for my T5750. So I would suspect around 4x faster or more. Who knows what programs they use to calculate the figures though -- not me. At any rate, I felt that my T5750 "almost" had what it takes, so I would suspect that the A8-3820 will do it with plenty of headroom to run other applications.

As for windows 8, all I can say is good grief. I'll stick with Win7 until it has been EOL'd. I despise change, especially when it's MS forcing it upon me heh.

Mike

 

[SCPD]

My local Police switched to APCO 25 and after doing some reading it sounds like
this might be possible to decode with my SDR-RTL Ezcap and some additional
Windows software.

See the Software Defined Receiver forum and also the SDR# Yahoo! Group.