El Paso Encrypted

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,211
Location
United States
I have however heard the manufacturer state to the agency: "The radios come with encryption, do you want to turn it on so you dont have to worry about anyone listening in?"

Right.
All our channels are all recorded, and those recordings can be requested via freedom of information act requests. Appropriately redacted, of course.

But that rarely gets requested. Which takes us back to the "entertainment" thing. If this was about 'transparency', we'd see tons of FOIA requests.
 

KevinC

The big K
Super Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Messages
12,470
Location
1 point
Never once in any meeting I've been in, has any Chief or radio system engineer ever uttered the phrase "But what about the scanner hobbyists????"

Public safety radio systems are not installed with the goal of providing entertainment or information to scanner listeners.
I do a lot of rural implementations and I've actually heard that several times. They all said that scanner listeners help them quite a bit. They all thought encryption was all or nothing, once I explained it can be implemented on a per channel/TG basis they left dispatch in the clear and encrypted whatever they called their secondary channel/TG.

Large cities/agencies not so much.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,211
Location
United States
I do a lot of rural implementations and I've actually heard that several times. They all said that scanner listeners help them quite a bit.
….
Large cities/agencies not so much.

I'm in a mostly rural county. The attitude seems to have changed in the last few years. Intentional interference/"I just wanna help" and privacy is pushing this. CCR's and social media isn't helping.

Fire seems to be on the fence. Some are all for it, some aren't 100% sure.

Law enforcement is pushing for mostly encrypted.

It's not up to me, I do what they ask. But for smaller agencies that only have one channel, there are not a lot of options. DOJ/FBI rules are there, and there isn't always a good alternative.

As for scanner listeners helping, that is a reality, but there are often better ways to reach a wider slice of the population with much better information. Some larger departments choose to do that as they can get photos, videos and information that is more easily understood by the general public disseminated via social media and other means.
Relying on a random citizen listening/understanding the scanner as a means of getting accurate information out to the public isn't a reliable solution.
 

BinaryMode

Blondie Once Said To Call Her But Never Answerd
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
829
Location
75 parsecs away
Those who could not care less for whatever reason (including those who are completely unaware that radios are encrypted)


That has been on my mind for a long time. A lot of the public just doesn't know or maybe don't care like you said. And that's just radio! You wouldn't believe what they have in museum basements...
 

Giddyuptd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
1,345
Location
Here and there
Well, it was good while it lasted. They City of El Paso is going encrypted starting this weekend per my radio tech buddies. I knew that the PD tactical channels were already encrypted but it looks like all the channels from PD and FD are doing it. I don't know any more details so I can't tell you what kind of encryption is being used but this sure bites. :(
Aes-256
 

Giddyuptd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
1,345
Location
Here and there
EPSO has been encrypted for several years now. I can see encoding the hospitals for HIPPA reasons but I agree with the rest. Fireground comms are the best. I guess that's the way everyone is going now.
Will be interesting for ambulance service from NM going to El paso using UHF med only who refuse to use anyone's trs fees
 

Giddyuptd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
1,345
Location
Here and there
I'm in a mostly rural county. The attitude seems to have changed in the last few years. Intentional interference/"I just wanna help" and privacy is pushing this. CCR's and social media isn't helping.

Fire seems to be on the fence. Some are all for it, some aren't 100% sure.

Law enforcement is pushing for mostly encrypted.

It's not up to me, I do what they ask. But for smaller agencies that only have one channel, there are not a lot of options. DOJ/FBI rules are there, and there isn't always a good alternative.

As for scanner listeners helping, that is a reality, but there are often better ways to reach a wider slice of the population with much better information. Some larger departments choose to do that as they can get photos, videos and information that is more easily understood by the general public disseminated via social media and other means.
Relying on a random citizen listening/understanding the scanner as a means of getting accurate information out to the public isn't a reliable solution.

I went ahead and asked some sources and the reply was El Paso has a decent law enforcement division in their fire dept which is under the fire dept.

Operations may be conducted over primary fire talk groups and tac groups or traffic from the El Paso city fire Marshall office. They are dual certified in Texas and some in new Mexico for state line operations. They posses fire, ems credentials as well as law enforcement duties for fire investigations and property protection of epfd and some have sar credentials as well.

Add in the current border world issues going on impacting them locally there security is a issue as well as theft of epfd assets and properties. Names dobs maybe ran over primary from fire LE marshalls including the normal fire paging traffic end traffic.

To solve some issues it was all strapped.

El paso police will be joining it as epso has been for some time which was told when they were analog vhf a few of us I recall told people back in 2007 they all were going secure. Once epso did most said we were full of it.

Skip forward where majority are running apx8000s now in the entire county interop is not a issue anymore. Others who will be going dark is horizon, Socorro and the vfds as well as county fire soon.

Agencies whom may need access on state line should feel free to contact them and pay the subscriber fees to access what they need. If not they are capable of using the vhf and 7/800 interops.

It should also be noted cbp has access and uses apx series all banders. Texas dps in El Paso also are carrying apx8000s with access and are using encrypted talkgroups on epso aside from their conventional p25 state setup.

At the moment the main dispatch PD are open but the impacts are going dark this week. Then otap otar will be done following for the main talk groups.
 
Last edited:

chris8620

Newbie
Joined
May 17, 2023
Messages
1
Well, it was good while it lasted. They City of El Paso is going encrypted starting this weekend per my radio tech buddies. I knew that the PD tactical channels were already encrypted but it looks like all the channels from PD and FD are doing it. I don't know any more details so I can't tell you what kind of encryption is being used but this sure bites. :(
So that means we can get the radios programmed to listen to them if their encrypted I’m not too familiar with how all this works but I noticed too I had my Motorola apx6000 on all day and didn’t hear anything except for the dispatcher saying to one of the units to move to the encrypted channel. So like is there nothing we can do to get them programmed if they are encrypted ?
 

riverradio68

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
489
Yeah run over to ECSO and demand your APX be be programmed with their encryption keys, Oh and be sure to read the keys and post em here afterwards ...
 

Mike_Lowry

Newbie
Joined
Dec 20, 2023
Messages
2
Good morning I have a need to be able to listen to pd calls along with FD if anyone can help me program radios to achieve this it would be greatly appreciated and im wiling to compensate.
 

KevinC

The big K
Super Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Messages
12,470
Location
1 point
Good morning I have a need to be able to listen to pd calls along with FD if anyone can help me program radios to achieve this it would be greatly appreciated and im wiling to compensate.
A want or a need? If you truly “need” to monitor them then approach the agency and plead your case. Otherwise your best way to get to hear them is get a job with them.
 

Giddyuptd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
1,345
Location
Here and there
Good morning I have a need to be able to listen to pd calls along with FD if anyone can help me program radios to achieve this it would be greatly appreciated and im wiling to compensate.
Negative. Unless you're a valid public safety user with a valid mou with your chiefs approval and fees paid per subscriber with El Paso county sheriff and city it will not happen, Even then they are going to have interop channels keyed you'd most likely get different from their main deal and be provisioned as need be when they kick their users to the interop groups they'll use.
 

Giddyuptd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
1,345
Location
Here and there
So that means we can get the radios programmed to listen to them if their encrypted I’m not too familiar with how all this works but I noticed too I had my Motorola apx6000 on all day and didn’t hear anything except for the dispatcher saying to one of the units to move to the encrypted channel. So like is there nothing we can do to get them programmed if they are encrypted ?
Nope. Unless it's owned by them and you're a valid user you're sol. The train long left for people to raise heck to their elected officials on issue. More less you own a expensive useless item there.
 

Giddyuptd

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
1,345
Location
Here and there
Appears Texas DPS in El Paso is using the VHF/800 system encrypted. Very minimal use of the vhf DPS stuff minus some exceptions outside to far east.

Pretty much interesting and moot since Dona Ana county, sunland park, Anthony NM, Cruces will be aes strapped entirely on the phase 2 NM system. I do know they plan to use a shared interop plan and that will be strapped as well with its own key with Texas mainly for sunland park. Pretty use your own dispatch type thing it's going to.

I do know legit media sources were leased a radio per deal in El Paso with set talkgroups.
 
Top