"Emergency Radio" False and Fictitious Statements

[hanlonmi06]

...and from another angle, straight from the officers mouth on a ride along, something along the lines of "please, do not touch the radio equipment". A few years ago now I had the opportunity to do a ride along with a Sheriffs deputy. Before we departed he had a whole conversation about please don't grab the mic and try to talk to dispatch, ect ect. and had stories to back it up of pervious ride a longs that seemed to feel the "officer was in danger and needed assistance". Kind of sad, kind of funny, but yeah there is definitely a segment of the population that seem to have this delusion. He set clear expectations on this topic, and then off we went!

 

[mmckenna]

Many public safety agencies do not use AVL. Some have radio ID's. So rando-citizen stressed out and grabbing an officers radio may not be the best way to handle this.
I'll echo above, dispatchers/officers do NOT want you messing with their radios, even if you think it's an emergency.
Using the tools provided, like 911, will get you to the right people and will provide location data to the dispatchers, even if you can't, or are not sure where you are.

But I'm sure this is the ham/hobbyist fantasy where all of society has collapsed and it's some guy with a baofeng that is going to save the day.

Having the mental capacity to make the right decision based on the situation is lacking for many. Doing what you need to do to save a human life should be #1 priority, and rules/laws should be farther down the list. But grabbing at the radio shouldn't be the first reaction. Slow down, size up the situation. Maybe staying out of the way will preserve your own life. From a safe location, use your cell phone and let the professionals handle it.

 

[G7RUX]

Many public safety agencies do not use AVL. Some have radio ID's. So rando-citizen stressed out and grabbing an officers radio may not be the best way to handle this.
I'll echo above, dispatchers/officers do NOT want you messing with their radios, even if you think it's an emergency.
Using the tools provided, like 911, will get you to the right people and will provide location data to the dispatchers, even if you can't, or are not sure where you are.

But I'm sure this is the ham/hobbyist fantasy where all of society has collapsed and it's some guy with a baofeng that is going to save the day.

Having the mental capacity to make the right decision based on the situation is lacking for many. Doing what you need to do to save a human life should be #1 priority, and rules/laws should be farther down the list. But grabbing at the radio shouldn't be the first reaction. Slow down, size up the situation. Maybe staying out of the way will preserve your own life. From a safe location, use your cell phone and let the professionals handle it.

Spot on.
if it has really kicked off and an officer is incapacitated and does not have backup then pressing the “emer“ button on their radio would not be a bad move but beyond that, no.

 

[dwh367]

Yup died in 2017

Thomas John "Tom" Dooley Obituary October 12, 2017 - Beste Funeral Home

View Thomas John "Tom" Dooley's obituary, send flowers, find service dates, and sign the guestbook.

www.bestefh.com

Thanks for pointing that out. I retract my snarky remark out of respect for the deceased.

 

[KD8DVR]

I've been getting a lot of Facebook ads touting "Emergency Radios" where the vendors are basically trying to tell the general public that, in an emergency, they can legally transmit on the ham bands to get assistance. They're using 97.403 as a basis for this but conveniently leaving out "amateur station". We all know the kind of problems this can lead up to if things would ever head south. Does anyone else think that maybe we should campaign the FCC to put a stop this nonsense? Just one person complaining wouldn't even be a blip on their radar but if multiple people complained it might actually get their attention. Here is a quote from My Emergency Radio



This is just one company. There are others are doing the same.

They are wrong.

There is no provision for an unlicensed person to use amateur frequencies.

The emergency rule ONLY applies to licensed amateur radio operators! This allows any licensed amateur radio operator to use any *amateur* frequency, regardless of license class in an emergency. You will notice that rule is in Part 97, which only applies to licensed amateur radio operators!
There has been a lot of discussion on this. Most of it is total fiction.

NO private citizen can use any radio frequency in an Emergency! ONLY licensed hams can do this to operate outside of the frequency limits imposed by license class restrictions WITHIN Amateur radio bands .Part 97 ONLY covers licensed amateur radio operators.

§ 97.403 Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

It also looks like Part 90 Commercial LICENSEES also have this rule within part 90 services:

§ 90.417 Interstation communication. (a) Any station licensed under this part may communicate with any other station without restriction as to type, service, or licensee when the communications involved relate directly to the imminent safety-of-life or property. (b) Any station licensed under this part may communicate with any other station licensed under this part, with U.S. Government stations, and with foreign stations, in connection with mutual activities, provided that where the communication involves foreign stations prior approval of the Commission must be obtained, and such communication must be permitted by the government that authorizes the foreign station. Communications by Public Safety Pool eligibles with foreign stations will be approved only to be conducted in accordance with Article 5 of the Inter-American Radio Agreement, Washington, DC, 1949, the provisions of which are set forth in § 90.20(b).

As you see, these are the ONLY provisions for emergency communications. NO private citizen my operate unless they are licensed under the above rules.



Other Services:
Licensees in other services, must conduct communications within the scope of their specific service regulations. For example, on the CB radio service, "Channel 9" is designed for emergency communications only.

Here is definitive evidence, in another rule part:
§2.405 Operation during emergency.
The licensee of any station (except amateur, standard broadcast, FM broadcast, noncommercial educational FM broadcast, or television broadcast) may, during a period of emergency in which normal communication facilities are disrupted as a result of hurricane, flood, earthquake, or similar disaster, utilize such station for emergency communication service in communicating in a manner other than that specified in the instrument of authorization: Provided:
(a) That as soon as possible after the beginning of such emergency use, notice be sent to the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau of the Commission at Washington, D.C., stating the nature of the emergency and the use to which the station is being put, and
(b) That the emergency use of the station shall be discontinued as soon as substantially normal communication facilities are again available, and
(c) That the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau of the Commission at Washington, D.C., shall be notified immediately when such special use of the station is terminated: Provided further,
****** Read this:
(d) That in no event shall any station engage in emergency transmission on frequencies other than, or with power in excess of, that specified in the instrument of authorization or as otherwise expressly provided by the Commission, or by law: And provided further,
*******(e) That any such emergency communication undertaken under this section shall terminate upon order of the Commission.

Note: Part 73 of this chapter contains provisions governing emergency operation of standard, FM, noncommercial educational FM, and television broadcast stations. Part 97 of this chapter contains such provisions for amateur stations.
[28 FR 13785, Dec. 18, 1963, as amended at 80 FR 53749, Sept. 8, 2015]
An "instrument of authorization" is a "license"

There is an abundance of whackers, preppers and tinfoil hattists, that are just trying to make excuses for illegal operation. This endangers the structure of the radio communications services.

 

[kb1fua]

There is an abundance of whackers, preppers and tinfoil hattists, that are just trying to make excuses for illegal operation. This endangers the structure of the radio communications services.

Yes! Way too many! And their ranks continue to grow. Still spouting their bs on this subject.

 

[MTS2000des]

There is an abundance of whackers, preppers and tinfoil hattists, that are just trying to make excuses for illegal operation. This endangers the structure of the radio communications services.

Usual response is "while I'll just say...." and they truly believe magically the consequences disappear. The whackers and cosplay posers usually FAFO the hard way.

 

[PreferredCustomer]

View attachment 161859

LOL. Wow!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I find these kinds of conversations interesting.

Say you're standing in a parking lot way out in the toolies. Someone shows up, fires on the cop, fires on the cop's radio and disables it. There's also a whacker there with a Baofeng (that for some reason you know is programmed on the cop's repeater.) You're outside the range of any cell towers. Would you use the whacker's radio to talk to dispatch and get help.

Boil it down: would you break the law to save a life?

Easy. I would tell the whacker; "Now is YOUR Moment"!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

They do, these rule parts trump Part 97...

§ 1.902 Scope.​

In case of any conflict between the rules set forth in this subpart and the rules set forth in parts 13, 20, 22, 24, 27, 30, 74, 80, 87, 90, 95, 96, 97, and 101 of title 47, chapter I of the Code of Federal Regulations, the rules in this part shall govern.

§ 1.903 Authorization required.​

(a) General rule. Stations in the Wireless Radio Services must be used and operated only in accordance with the rules applicable to their particular service as set forth in this title and with a valid authorization granted by the Commission under the provisions of this part, except as specified in paragraph (b) of this section.

(b) Restrictions. The holding of an authorization does not create any rights beyond the terms, conditions and period specified in the authorization. Authorizations may be granted upon proper application, provided that the Commission finds that the applicant is qualified in regard to citizenship, character, financial, technical and other criteria, and that the public interest, convenience and necessity will be served. See §§ 301, 308, and 309, 310 of this chapter.

I am way too lazy to look it up, but recall that there is another sub part in the low # chapters that reflects 97.403/405 in intent. It is an ITU provision for worldwide preservation of life and safety.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

(snip)



I agree. But if you cannot get hams to read Part 97, there's no way they are going to read Part 1.

Whackers gotta Whack.

The scope and magnitude of monetary fines listed in the low # section is eye opening. The FCC should be more forceful in collecting those.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

All other matters aside, would you break the law to save a life?

I would not go so far as loading my radios with police TRANSMIT frequencies, because frankly, I don't want to give the Po-Lice any ammo to harass me. But yeah, if I had to construct a megawatt spark gap transmitter out of a downed pole pig transformer, I would do it.

 

[KF5LJW]

NO private citizen can use any radio frequency in an Emergency! ONLY licensed hams can do this to operate outside of the frequency limits imposed by license class restrictions WITHIN Amateur radio bands

Someone drank the Kool-Aid. Anyone can pick up a radio and transmit; no emergency is required. It happens every day. In fact, my nephews have my 2-meter HTs playing cops and robbers as we speak. It is like a speed limit, everyone speeds except for the boy scout with a line of traffic behind them.

 

[Spankymedic7]

Someone drank the Kool-Aid. Anyone can pick up a radio and transmit; no emergency is required. It happens every day. In fact, my nephews have my 2-meter HTs playing cops and robbers as we speak. It is like a speed limit, everyone speeds except for the boy scout with a line of traffic behind them.

There's always one in every crowd...

 

[mmckenna]

There's always one in every crowd...

Sometimes more than one.

But I'd much rather some uneducated type with a CCR use amateur radio frequencies than randomly selecting some Part 90 frequency and interfering with public safety or business. I know, the hams will get upset, but it's a hobby. If someone is going to be stupid, they should absolutely do it where they are not going to cause issues for the professionals.

 

[buddrousa]

@KF5LJW
So by your thoughts it is not MURDER unless you get caught.
You just confessed to the FCC that you are not controlling your Station.

 

[KF5LJW]

@KF5LJW

You just confessed to the FCC that you are not controlling your Station.

Who cares? I confess to speeding, Boy Scout. Who said I was not in control? I can see and hear them just fine. Which is more dangerous, speeding in traffic or two kids playing with radios? You forget amateur radio is a toy and nothing more. It requires no education or skill to hold a license. Just an application fee.

 

[buddrousa]

You failed to learn the Rules when you got your License. You the Licensed user SHALL BE IN CONTROL OF YOUR STATION AT ALL TIMES.
Also you the Licensed Operator are RESPONSIBLE for your station at all times.
If I was a betting person I would bet you give children OLD CELLPHONES that will call 911 every single time they dial 911.

 

[jack103]

I see many of these and nothing more than a vehicle to sell crap wothless radios. Amateur band is a very poor place for emergency backup anyway.
You would be just as legal in an emergency to use the likes of US coast guard exclusive frequencies.
They define emergency as "eminent threat to life or rescue of serious injury"
(just an example)
The last thing you would want to do is interfere with any ongoing comms of this nature.

 

[TGuelker]

The only license I have is to drive. I bought a CCR and put it in the trunk in case we are out in the boonies and get stranded with no cell service. What I am reading in these posts is that I would be breaking the rules by transmitting without a license. No ifs, ands or buts?