ENCryption here and there?

[slidder]

I'm referring to Fleetnet since your very first post asked about Fleetnet.

The Investigative officers can choose whether to encrypt or not to encrypt. It's as simple as flipping a switch or pressing a button. Sometimes they forget to flip the switch and that's why you hear only half the conversation. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'll repeat it again, there are no encrypted talkgroups on Fleetnet that the dispatcher monitors.

These talkgroups are not monitored by dispatch since there's just too activity that doesn't concern the dispatcher. If they want to run a plate, they switch over to one of the regular OPS groups or call in.

You know i am sure you know a lot more about scanning and radio systems than i do, HOWEVER, that does not mean you know it all. for instance DB admin. there are a handful of TGID's that are NOT listed on the database for the BMR Fleetnet. Also i bet you didn't know that from time to time some OPP use I-call to run plates. ( very odd i dunno why) BUT hey that is why i ask questions on this forum. And no Mike there is a TG that will go encrypted from time to time . and is monitored. you wouldn't know because it is probably too far away from the great Toronto for you to be concerned about.


btw what is CAD??

cheers

 

[mikewazowski]

there are a handful of TGID's that are NOT listed on the database for the BMR Fleetnet.

So why not submit them?

 

[slicerwizard]

i have heard radio chatter on ONE certain TG that sometimes is encrypted and other time not ( i made a prior post about this, how they think they are running encrypted when actually i can hear them plain as day) and i can hear a dispatch from time to time, when they ask for her, so therefor she would have to be monitoring the TG

How do you know it was a dispatcher at the comm centre? What was the console ID? Yeah, didn't think so.

You know i am sure you know a lot more about scanning and radio systems than i do

You are a true master of the obvious.

HOWEVER, that does not mean you know it all. for instance DB admin. there are a handful of TGID's that are NOT listed on the database for the BMR Fleetnet.

You assume he doesn't know this. Not a good call on your part.

And no Mike

His name isn't Mike. You're batting 1000!

you wouldn't know because it is probably too far away from the great Toronto for you to be concerned about.

Since he doesn't live in Toronto, what's your point?

btw what is CAD??

OMG. Since you arrived here, you've been acting like a know-nothing jerk (this thread is a good example: http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84702 ), and then you toss out this gem to confirm it!

 

[nova1010]

LOL I knew sooner or later someone was gonna give it to ya there slidder.

 

[warrior420]

ha ha

 

[I_10_92]

Ouch...

 

[jellotor]

I'm going to be nice to slidder here and point out what he should (hopefully) get from this thread, just so there's no confusion...

You asked a question, your question was answered. You took umbrage with the answer, disagreed with it and the answer was further explained to you.

You still didn't agree with the answer and without any logical arguments to back up your position you resorted to assumptions and supposition...and weak assumptions at that.

Slidder, if you're right and Steve, Andy and others are wrong, why bother to ask them for information about a radio system at all?

 

[EJB]

On a positive note here Slidder does stick to the 'Discreete is elite' principle to a T

 

[slidder]

I'm going to be nice to slidder here and point out what he should (hopefully) get from this thread, just so there's no confusion...

You asked a question, your question was answered. You took umbrage with the answer, disagreed with it and the answer was further explained to you.

You still didn't agree with the answer and without any logical arguments to back up your position you resorted to assumptions and supposition...and weak assumptions at that.

Slidder, if you're right and Steve, Andy and others are wrong, why bother to ask them for information about a radio system at all?

actually this thread was started many months back. i just noticed someone add to it recently

Originally Posted by Jammin_Jay
I see your point Jay, but wouldn't a dispatcher's console indicate a radio ID mode status

It might but none of the encrypted talkgroups on Fleetnet are available to the dispatchers.

and MIKE_OXLONG stated with no backup source to where he knows this. I on the other hand have actually heard a dispatch talk to the "encrypted" TG from time to time.
and like EJB says discreet is elite. thanks for understanding.. so i am not going to give out the agency TG like a motor mouth. the person who does that is truly an idiot.

And to satisfy Slicerwizard; when i do listen they are speaking in code i have no clue what they are talking about, something about seeing spaghetti in the sky, passing the the white on green .. THEN i Actually hear in plain English "xxxx to dispatch...." and guess who replies in plain English???? thats right...
And yes, i have heard from time to time "i am going to call into dispatch to check on a plate" etc as well. so i dunno why they would not just use one or the other.

That all i am going to say on this topic. you have all answered most of my questions on this topic many months ago (thank you!) but recently,the last few days, i was responding about the fact that MIKE_OXLONG made an inaccurate statement.
thanks for being soo nice and promptly replying to the thread. but i think this thread is dead. as it has served its purpose

 

[EJB]

Slidder:
MikeOxlong , would not say anything without confirming it or having 'hard proof.'
I have known the guy on here & yahoo now for over 5 years,
tough but 100% fair, no bull.
He runs a tight ship here and you wont find someone more respected when it comes to scanner knowledge

Now if only he would change that damm avatar.... did I just say that (there goes my discreet is elite)

 

[Jay911]

I on the other hand have actually heard a dispatch talk to the "encrypted" TG from time to time.

I think I see where this is breaking down, and it's almost an issue of semantics.

There are encrypted talkgroups - where everything on the talkgroup is encrypted, by default, due to the configuration of the radio system itself - i.e. not a user option..

..and then there are talkgroups that happen to be (sometimes) encrypted, which is what you describe hearing (any talkgroup with encryption only running part-time is one where the user selects whether to go encrypted or not).

The dispatcher consoles have to be specifically built with the encryption option board included in order to hear/talk in encrypted mode or on an encrypted talkgroup. On a standard talkgroup that is utilizing encryption, the dispatcher will only see a 'padlock' icon flashing (instead of a speaker icon flashing when an in-the-clear user speaks) and will NOT hear the encrypted traffic. Most dispatch centers don't bother with the added (high) costs of putting in the encryption boards because of the dispatcher's total lack of need to hear the encrypted traffic (and the street crews' ability to switch to a standard talkgroup to communicate with Dispatch if necessary).

Encryption, in this day and age, is something you cannot monitor with a scanner, so whatever it is that you are saying you heard that was 'an encrypted user talking to dispatch' or vice versa is, in fact, not that.

And before you give me grief for my qualifications - I have spent the past 6 1/2 years working as a dispatcher in a comm center, including time working during a G-8 summit with a system utilizing encryption.

 

[slidder]

I think I see where this is breaking down, and it's almost an issue of semantics.

There are encrypted talkgroups - where everything on the talkgroup is encrypted, by default, due to the configuration of the radio system itself - i.e. not a user option..

..and then there are talkgroups that happen to be (sometimes) encrypted, which is what you describe hearing (any talkgroup with encryption only running part-time is one where the user selects whether to go encrypted or not).

The dispatcher consoles have to be specifically built with the encryption option board included in order to hear/talk in encrypted mode or on an encrypted talkgroup. On a standard talkgroup that is utilizing encryption, the dispatcher will only see a 'padlock' icon flashing (instead of a speaker icon flashing when an in-the-clear user speaks) and will NOT hear the encrypted traffic. Most dispatch centers don't bother with the added (high) costs of putting in the encryption boards because of the dispatcher's total lack of need to hear the encrypted traffic (and the street crews' ability to switch to a standard talkgroup to communicate with Dispatch if necessary).

Encryption, in this day and age, is something you cannot monitor with a scanner, so whatever it is that you are saying you heard that was 'an encrypted user talking to dispatch' or vice versa is, in fact, not that.

And before you give me grief for my qualifications - I have spent the past 6 1/2 years working as a dispatcher in a comm center, including time working during a G-8 summit with a system utilizing encryption.

THANK YOU for summarizing it. now if only MIKE_OXLONG could just be as logical as you and know that there might be a possiblitiy of what you just stated. and i know i can't listen to encrypted. just sounds like r2d2 on crack lol.

 

[Jay911]

Um, I basically expanded on what MikeOxlong said... he knows there 'might be a possibility of what (I) just stated'. You're the one with the blockage here.

I too stand by the statement that dispatchers on the Fleetnet system do not have the capability to monitor encrypted talkgroups.

 

[slicerwizard]

when i do listen they are speaking in code i have no clue what they are talking about, something about seeing spaghetti in the sky, passing the the white on green

Oh come on. Their "codes" are trivial to decipher - or so the rest of us thought. Where are they when they see spaghetti in the sky? Are they approaching a major hydro corridor? You have to put some context to these phrases when you hear them.

Most have managed to figure out the meanings of typical terms like 3 bound, 6 bound, 9 bound, 12 bound, BFT, binders, bubble, candles, change on the side, concrete, construction in the sky, cupboard, dish, dynamite, eight sider, eleven-eleven, file cabinet, fish, fresh water, ice, jug, KFI, kisses, lizard, million dollar sign, mini / mini switch, multi, nest, nickel chaser, number one, oil, one of two, over the unders, plug, PU, push / push lot, runway, scribes, shade, side track, skate, spin, spinning bucket, stale water, steel-wheeler, sun, swing lane, switch, T&T, tango, TD, the eye, the fork, the groove, towers of power, track, tragic, twinkie, two of two, U-bolt, UG, under the overs, woo-woo and X in the sky, so git 'r done.

.. THEN i Actually hear in plain English "xxxx to dispatch...." and guess who replies in plain English???? thats right...

What's right? Some person back at their office sitting next to a computer? You have a major problem with comprehension and assumption.

 

[slidder]

Oh come on. Their "codes" are trivial to decipher - or so the rest of us thought. Where are they when they see spaghetti in the sky? Are they approaching a major hydro corridor? You have to put some context to these phrases when you hear them.

Most have managed to figure out the meanings of typical terms like 3 bound, 6 bound, 9 bound, 12 bound, BFT, binders, bubble, candles, change on the side, concrete, construction in the sky, cupboard, dish, dynamite, eight sider, eleven-eleven, file cabinet, fish, fresh water, ice, jug, KFI, kisses, lizard, million dollar sign, mini / mini switch, multi, nest, nickel chaser, number one, oil, one of two, over the unders, plug, PU, push / push lot, runway, scribes, shade, side track, skate, spin, spinning bucket, stale water, steel-wheeler, sun, swing lane, switch, T&T, tango, TD, the eye, the fork, the groove, towers of power, track, tragic, twinkie, two of two, U-bolt, UG, under the overs, woo-woo and X in the sky, so git 'r done.

white on green= highway sign , file cabinet = parking lot, fish= south (in addition) beaver, veggie, tree, switch = lights, push =gas, PU= pick up/ truck, shade= cars in between, spin= follow ppl strategically, TnT= throuh and through (an intersection that is) , the eye= you have the eye on the target, track = lane , tragic= traffic, U-bolt= U-turn or changed directions quickly. under the overs or vice versa= self explanatory, shoe = phone

i do know what these simply cryptic verses mean. i figured them out after listening for 10 minutes

What's right? Some person back at their office sitting next to a computer? You have a major problem with comprehension and assumption.

actually if you took the time to READ the post you would understand what i was trying to ask and get at. maybe you got the problem with comprehension

 

[exkalibur]

file cabinet = parking lot

Not to nit-pick, but a "Filing Cabinet" isn't a parking lot, it's an apartment building.

 

[exkalibur]

Also i bet you didn't know that from time to time some OPP use I-call to run plates.

And I can absolutely 100% assure you that the OPP do not use I-Calls to run plates or anything else - they do not have the ability to do so. I can't speak for other agencies, but the OPP cannot do individual calls on Fleetnet.

 

[slidder]

Not to nit-pick, but a "Filing Cabinet" isn't a parking lot, it's an apartment building.

hmm i always thought it was the parking lot for an apartment building.. thanks


and as for the i-call, all i know is it was on fleenet / digital and someone was running a plate asking for 29/28 . sooo i dunno maybe MTO?? or some other enforcement

 

[slidder]

Ouch...

lol can some one make that pic into an avatar for me.. that is priceless

 

[exkalibur]

hmm i always thought it was the parking lot for an apartment building.. thanks

Nope. Look at an apartment building - the balconies look like doors of a filing cabinet (kinda/sorta)

and as for the i-call, all i know is it was on fleenet / digital and someone was running a plate asking for 29/28 . sooo i dunno maybe MTO?? or some other enforcement

I'm not sure if the MTO have the ability. Personally speaking, I can't recall ever seeing an I-Call on the Toronto fleetnet tower - but it's been a long time since I've monitored it with T88.