Encryption question

[Tedh0388]

I know at this time nobody can monitor Bucks county Pa and Montgomery County Pa law channels.

Stupid question is is there a way? With all the technology you would think there would be a way to Monitor.

Do you think at some point there will be ? Listening to fire and Ems is getting old. Lol

Ty

 

[marksmith]

I do not expect there to be a way since in addition to being difficult, it is questionable how legal any method other than the correct one would be.

The only correct way is to have one of their portables with the encryption code entered. I doubt they will authorize one for you.

 

[trentbob]

I am in Bucks County. Other than going to a police academy and being hired as a police officer, fire police have apx 6000 radios that are equipped with the ability to communicate with the police on encrypted channels.

If you want to join the fire police in your District, do the training and get sworn in there is no way you're going to pick up encryption on police or any other encrypted operations.

The fire police talk groups North and South themselves are not encrypted but as I say you would be able to switch over to the appropriate Zone, keeping it brief and communicate with police. You would be able to monitor any Zone you want and listen.

I actually know several gentlemen who have done this and they take their apx 6000 with them at all times and can also listen to it at home. It is assigned to them.

They are tracked by GPS and they have to be careful not to hit the emergency button and set off a 10-78.

 

[trentbob]

By the way poster, I agree listening to fire and EMS is boring, make sure you also add countywide tac 1-5 and scan them. Talk about being bored you'll be able to hear fire police talking, sometimes with police in the clear during parades, events and 5K runs. Dispatcher will assign a tac channel for each event so sometimes you can have three events going on, on a weekend day on three different talk groups.

Just a note of humor. Police districts in all of the zones have encrypted OPS channels assigned to each Zone other than the dispatch talk groups. SWAT has a group of channels that are encrypted. Now there are encrypted talk groups for school shooting events but if you monitor the countywide tac channels in the clear, it is not unusual to hear the police conducting speed traps or Police business in the clear. Always got a chuckle out of that.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Stupid question is is there a way? With all the technology you would think there would be a way to Monitor.

Well that would defeat the purpose of using encryption wouldn't it?

Do you think at some point there will be ?

I mean, with quantum computing, eventually AES256 will be brute forced, or a weakness will be found and exploited.

However, I doubt that kind of thing will ever be in the realm of affordability to the average hobbiest

 

[n0xvz]

Stupid question is is there a way? With all the technology you would think there would be a way to Monitor.

The technology already exists. How will you convince any agency to share its key even if you can afford it?

 

[TDR-94]

Well that would defeat the purpose of using encryption wouldn't it?

I mean, with quantum computing, eventually AES256 will be brute forced, or a weakness will be found and exploited.

However, I doubt that kind of thing will ever be in the realm of affordability to the average hobbiest

There are already guantum resistant algorithms. By the time "true" quantum computing becomes available, those new algorithms will have already been implemented. It's a fallacy that quantum computing will put an end to encryption or allow anyone to monitor encrypted communications, regardless of the delivery system being used.

 

[trentbob]

@Tedh0388 getting back to encryption in Bucks County, just to give you a quick background.. we had dispatch in the clear and the county had a boatload of encrypted talk groups they could switch to. Then they started selective encryption where the individual officer could throw the slide switch and encrypt what he thought was sensitive information, I guess because of covid which I didn't think was an issue as the data talk group was encrypted.

The Bucks County Commissioners were dedicated to transparency and the rule was that the officer would throw the slide switch back to be in the clear but most of the time had to be reminded by the radio room to do so.

There was a coalition of First Responders and hobbyist who had a leader and was communicating with the Bucks County Commissioners who promised in writing that they would stay in the clear with dispatch.

Well in January of 2021, of all times, they broke their empty promise and went completely encrypted because of the reason of covid which is now long long over.

To get back to if they will ever be transparent again and have at least dispatch in the clear I don't think that's going to happen, the people of Bucks County are of one persuasion but are governed by another, not even going to go there.

Unless some kind of miracle happens, what's that old saying? They throw them out of office, I don't think anything is going to change.

If you have any questions feel free.. maybe let us know that you acknowledge the thread..

 

[kayn1n32008]

There are already guantum resistant algorithms. By the time "true" quantum computing becomes available, those new algorithms will have already been implemented. It's a fallacy that quantum computing will put an end to encryption or allow anyone to monitor encrypted communications, regardless of the delivery system being used.

Go read what I wrote. I never claimed quantum computing would defeat quantum resistant algorithms. I said it would eventually be able to defeat AES256, which, is what is being used today.

 

[RichardKramer]

Don't forget all the National interop frequencies which are usually in the clear.

 

[kb9klc]

Well in January of 2021, of all times, they broke their empty promise and went completely encrypted because of the reason of covid which is now long long over

I can't resist.... what in the world could Covid possibly have to do with encryption? Were they afraid it would spread via unencrypted radio waves?

 

[buddrousa]

The vast number of calls and personal information and HEPA Laws several opted to the safer option by Encryption.
We would be dispatched to an address and told Universal Precautions which meant COVID and you knew by address who might be infected.

 

[rf_patriot200]

I can't resist.... what in the world could Covid possibly have to do with encryption? Were they afraid it would spread via unencrypted radio waves?

All the mixed up Ones and Zero's confuse the Covid molecules on who to infect next ...

 

[fireparamed1]

I can't resist.... what in the world could Covid possibly have to do with encryption? Were they afraid it would spread via unencrypted radio waves?

When COVID started to become a really big deal, most police and fire dispatch centers would ask EVERY caller, no matter what the call for service was, if anyone in the location had COVID. Then that information was passed on to police and fire on EVERY call so that responders could take appropriate precautions. I would imagine that is some places, the admins. felt like that was private information that should not be shared over the clear airwaves. "Hey sweetheart, guess what? Our neighbors have COVID. Oh and also, they are in the middle of a domestic!!"

In a very intersting way, the idea of sharing the medical information of an address and the call type, suicide, overdose, rape, etc., has long been an area of concern for HIPPA to some departments. Though in reality, there is no specific precedent that I am aware of that specifically says that it is acutually protected patient information (PPI). Usually, fire departments talk about the concerns of such information, then continue to just stay in the clear anyway. Who knows what the future will hold.

 

[trentbob]

The vast number of calls and personal information and HEPA Laws several opted to the safer option by Encryption.
We would be dispatched to an address and told Universal Precautions which meant COVID and you knew by address who might be infected.

Yes, Bucks County had a protocol like that they said a person might be a possible code 0.

During the height of covid and I know you know all about that! Quite a lot of people were positive.

As far as being told to use universal precautions, no matter what your discipline, Fire Rescue EMT police you always practice universal precautions no matter what 😉 but yes they did tip off personnel saying that the patient was a Code Zero

The police usually did not respond a ambulance call but occasionally they investigated a code 5 or DOA.

As I'm remembering there were also riots during that time in Philadelphia which quite honestly had absolutely no effect on Bucks County what so ever but they would go dark for a few weeks at a time because of unknown threats and then they would come back so they kind of did it slowly using the riots that did not affect Bucks County at all to finally go out all togethe for the purposes of covid and that was approximately a year after covid started.

They didn't encrypt fire and EMT so plenty of addresses were given out and associated with a possible code 0 long after police were encrypted.

A Secret Squirrel is a secret squirrel LOL nothing you can do about it.😉

 

[fireparamed1]

As far as being told to use universal precautions, no matter what your discipline, Fire Rescue EMT police you always practice universal precautions no matter what 😉 but yes they did tip off personnel saying that the patient was a Code Zero

The police usually did not respond a ambulance call but occasionally they investigated a code 5 or DOA.

EMS/Fire wore completely different protective gear if it was a known COVID response vs. not suspected COVID response. Disposable gowns, in some cases PAPR's filtration masks. The gear is super uncomfortable, hot, and disposable/expensive, so not used every call if not needed. We also advised them to bring known COVID positives out to the front door if they were physically able to limit the exposure to the inside of the house and extra people etc. Universal precautions can mean many different things, and many different levels of protective gear based on the percieved threat.

For our LEO's, they were not in the habit of wearing facemasks and latex gloves on every call, nor did they want to. So they used that information to determine what level of caution they were taking when responding to calls. Like I said, if you called in a domestic, you were asked if anyone in the residence had or recently had COVID. It became: 911 what is the nature of the emergency, what is the location, do you or anyone in the location have COIVD?

 

[trentbob]

EMS/Fire wore completely different protective gear if it was a known COVID response vs. not suspected COVID response. Disposable gowns, in some cases PAPR's filtration masks. The gear is super uncomfortable, hot, and disposable/expensive, so not used every call if not needed. We also advised them to bring known COVID positives out to the front door if they were physically able to limit the exposure to the inside of the house and extra people etc. Universal precautions can mean many different things, and many different levels of protective gear based on the percieved threat.

For our LEO's, they were not in the habit of wearing facemasks and latex gloves on every call, nor did they want to. So they used that information to determine what level of caution they were taking when responding to calls. Like I said, if you called in a domestic, you were asked if anyone in the residence had or recently had COVID. It became: 911 what is the nature of the emergency, what is the location, do you or anyone in the location have COIVD?

Yep I remember how EMT units had to restock a lot of stuff because of all the extra precautions they took, I don't blame you. I'm in Lower Bucks County, Zone 8 Zone 1 Zone 2 and Zone 3... it seemed like the police were pretty compliant and had the custom masks for their Department.

I think there was some staffing problems too in some of the smaller departments.

Thankfully covid is long over, even though we have a slew of respiratory problems we're facing this winter but covet is over and we have no riots, we never did sooo...😀

 

[trentbob]

Although I'm retired from my newspaper on a pension, I am also a retired RN. Many nurses I know retired at the height of covid if they had their time in. I'm retired from Lower Bucks Hospital on a pension.

 

[trentbob]

I hope that the original poster is going to return, it appears as if this was his first post.

 

[garys]

HIPAA regulations have specifid exemptions for emergency communications that include radio.

It's oxymoronic for a dispatcher to tell someone to use "Universal Precautions" because the precautions are supposed to be usd... universally. Precautions used for COVID were certainly NOT universal from what I saw and heard from former co workers.

The vast number of calls and personal information and HEPA Laws several opted to the safer option by Encryption.
We would be dispatched to an address and told Universal Precautions which meant COVID and you knew by address who might be infected.