FBI Moving to Mostly VoIP Wireless

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ecps92

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There was no Governmental reduction/disabling of the Cellular/PCS systems, it was OverLoad - Plain and Simple

GETS would work if you could get out on the cell in the first place, and WPS is only if you are:
a. Previously Registered
b. Your Agency Pays
c. Your current provider supports WPS

Boston wasn't a failure in the traditional sense, the feds disabled/reduced the use of cellular voice and data to minimize the terrorists ability to communicate. GETS was a no go over cell obviously and WPS was very spotty, mostly worked well through Verizon. All the other carriers were struggling even with WPS. TT
 

KA2ZEY

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Can someone do a brief summary of this entire thread for a newb? What does this mean for the future of scanning state and federal agencies?
 
D

DaveNF2G

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Can someone do a brief summary of this entire thread for a newb? What does this mean for the future of scanning state and federal agencies?

Practically nothing. FirstNet is meant for non-voice communications.
 

TampaTyron

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From one 0391 to another:
I respectfully disagree. The Bombing happened on the 15th. On the 16th I was on a plane to Boston to try to figure out why many of our customer's systems were still not working (PTT over cellular, Job Ticketing over cellular, RF DAS systems, fiber fed DAS, etc). We had been told by several cell providers that they were being overloaded and this is what we conveyed to our customers. The whole area was a mess for cellular on ALL bands. I worked on this until the 24th, when the brother was captured. By the 26th or 27th, everything had returned to "normal". It was not a case of overload, as I was monitoring the forward and reverse signalling channels of all the major carriers. There were several distinct messages being broadcast over the signalling channels that I had never seen before. These issues persisted continuously 24hrs a day for this entire period. The messaging being transmitted by the cellular providers and the behavior of subscriber devices was entirely different than anything I had seen before, including working several major events where cell systems we overload and crashed. A couple of my installs had direct fiber connection back to the cell providers "switch". At the time, I did not have much experience looking at the data streams from cell site simulators, stingrays, or rogue cell sites. If this was a case of overload, why would the system still be overloaded in the middle of the night? Not 1 carrier attempted to deploy a cow or colt in the area of congestion (which was huge)? Not 1 carrier was able to recover from this condition in 9 or so consecutive days? I drive tested the stuffing out of the area during this time and the issue was spread over a large area. Sorry man, I am not buying it. TT



There was no Governmental reduction/disabling of the Cellular/PCS systems, it was OverLoad - Plain and Simple

GETS would work if you could get out on the cell in the first place, and WPS is only if you are:
a. Previously Registered
b. Your Agency Pays
c. Your current provider supports WPS
 

ecps92

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Taxachusetts
Guess we will have to disagree. Who is buying the first round ?
Having seen many a document [some not for posting] it was overload and my VZW never faultered


From one 0391 to another:
I respectfully disagree. The Bombing happened on the 15th. On the 16th I was on a plane to Boston to try to figure out why many of our customer's systems were still not working (PTT over cellular, Job Ticketing over cellular, RF DAS systems, fiber fed DAS, etc). We had been told by several cell providers that they were being overloaded and this is what we conveyed to our customers. The whole area was a mess for cellular on ALL bands. I worked on this until the 24th, when the brother was captured. By the 26th or 27th, everything had returned to "normal". It was not a case of overload, as I was monitoring the forward and reverse signalling channels of all the major carriers. There were several distinct messages being broadcast over the signalling channels that I had never seen before. These issues persisted continuously 24hrs a day for this entire period. The messaging being transmitted by the cellular providers and the behavior of subscriber devices was entirely different than anything I had seen before, including working several major events where cell systems we overload and crashed. A couple of my installs had direct fiber connection back to the cell providers "switch". At the time, I did not have much experience looking at the data streams from cell site simulators, stingrays, or rogue cell sites. If this was a case of overload, why would the system still be overloaded in the middle of the night? Not 1 carrier attempted to deploy a cow or colt in the area of congestion (which was huge)? Not 1 carrier was able to recover from this condition in 9 or so consecutive days? I drive tested the stuffing out of the area during this time and the issue was spread over a large area. Sorry man, I am not buying it. TT
 

radioman2001

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Could be the carriers at the request of the gov busying out the sites in the area to prevent? Smart phone PD radio apps, texting, preventing calling to the person being looked for. Anything is possible, I do know that when I was in the military we had the capability of shutting down the power grid remotely in the event of ?
I believe during the Rodney King riots there was some limitation of communications coming out of Cal.

Quote"
Both 9/11/01 and 08/14/03 quickly come to mind for the Northeast in regard to wide spread regional mobile phone infrastructure failures.

Technically you're wrong, the cell network did not go down the ability to place calls to other numbers was overloaded by the sheer number of people using it attempting to make calls at the same time. However the network was still up and those with prioritized usage such as first responders would've still been able to get on and connect.

Not true from what I expienced. On 911 most of the infrastructure were damaged underground cable vaults under WTC so no service. When I got down there the second night (after sleeping on the floor of the armory the first night) there were mini cell sites up with microwave aimed at windows of nearby buildings or across the river to NJ.

During the blackout maybe where you were may have had backup power but all the sites in my area were down after about 2 hours, no power as backup batteries are only good for a few hours. I checked using a service monitor, no transmissions at all on the 800 cellular band or on Nexthell channels.Foolishly our agency had Nexthell radios, so our entire town ended up on a single frequency that night.
 

signal500

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The FBI uses many different types of devices for communications. Legacy VHF/UHF radios, cellular networks from all major carriers, 700/800 MHz trunked systems, etc.

Types of radio communication systems deployed depend on technology, standards, regulations, radio spectrum allocation, user requirements, service positioning, and investment.

The FBI's Special Surveillance Group (SSG) used Bendix King KFH frequency hopping radios with repeaters nationwide back in the 80's and early 90's. It really comes down to the requirements, budget, and which branch of the FBI will be using the communications platform and for what purpose.

Some agents may use VoIP wireless, but the entire agency isn't "moving to mostly VoIP wireless"
 

mancow

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The FBI uses many different types of devices for communications. Legacy VHF/UHF radios, cellular networks from all major carriers, 700/800 MHz trunked systems, etc.

Types of radio communication systems deployed depend on technology, standards, regulations, radio spectrum allocation, user requirements, service positioning, and investment.

The FBI's Special Surveillance Group (SSG) used Bendix King KFH frequency hopping radios with repeaters nationwide back in the 80's and early 90's. It really comes down to the requirements, budget, and which branch of the FBI will be using the communications platform and for what purpose.

Some agents may use VoIP wireless, but the entire agency isn't "moving to mostly VoIP wireless"


Neat. I have some of those KFHs.
 

NavyBOFH

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Good luck. Depending on the state and the Communications Director at the Field Office you might run into them running 100% encrypted.


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