MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
These whacker hams should have their licenses revoked, then prosecuted on state charges if applicable. Time to stop these Bowelturd bandits with real consequences.
FCC enforcement
- Thread starter mmckenna
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeeesh.
How the hell does someone accidentally set something like that up and not notice it.
Gotta think there is some discussion going on a FCC regarding this and figuring out how to stop this from happening in the future.
At least the person seemed to be honest about it and willingly gave the radio to the FCC when requested.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
"Gotta be smarter than the tool you are using" comes to mind. I wish hams would stop buying Part 90 radios and stay in their lane. That would prevent some of these issues.
Same people that use VOX (which I despise), then leave the radio on a desk/counter and it picks up and wreaks havoc of the sounds of TV and music playing in the house. Some (ok, more than some) people are ignorant and don't think past the right now 30 seconds.
Sometimes the stuff comes turned on out of the box, and people have no idea what's actually running. Lots of folks using Radtels wind up doing similar things, especially when trying to set up APRS.
We've given people their learner's permit, but there's no adult in the car.
I figure he was just trying to use a GMRS repeater...
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
FCC needs to start confiscating these and smashing them en mass.
I have zero patience for people that get tools like this and then either knowingly or unknowingly cause harmful interference. There is exactly ZERO reason why the radio should have been programmed with that frequency in the transmit side.
Hams need to be more intelligent than this, but sadly we are realizing that most are not. It's either too tempting, or too easy to screw this up. The lack of understanding/consideration should incur higher fines/levels of punishment.
At least this guys name/call sign is forever recorded on the internet. That would hopefully remind them to never do this again, and should serve as a warning to others. However, we know it won't. There's still the whole "when all else fails" and the "transmitting outside the ham bands is legal" morons out there.
I'd love to see hams hold themselves to a higher set of standards. That's how it should be. Lead by example. Show they are good stewards of the natural resource they have been given. Show that they can be responsible.
But the shiny new Turd radios that will transmit outside the ham bands is just too temping.
Like the guy doing the video above, using it on GMRS. FCC does not show the radio is type accepted for GMRS. But they'll proudly defend their actions. The guy had a ham license, and should have been testing there.
It's stuff like this that makes me keep ham radio at a distance. It makes me think twice before engaging hams at work. It keeps me from identifying myself as a ham to anyone that doesn't need to know.
Like many, I use Part 90 radios on the ham bands. But I make damn sure the radios are not programmed to transmit on any frequencies I am not licensed for, or have permission to use as part of my job.
It used to be. Back in the "good old days", hams really needed to demonstrate not just technical knowledge but operating skills.
I too run commercial gear for my mobile V/U comms, and I too ensure that I can't transmit on non-ham frequencies.
I agree with everything you wrote there @mmckenna . Thing is, we both know what the widespread response to that is. Sad Ham, or some other such nonsense.
People have gotten such a "don't tell me what to do" attitude that they don't want or can't handle personal instruction. They don't want an actual human telling them, "No, you can't do that." That's a bigger kettle of glue than we can deal with here.
I don't know how to get people to care or to ask for instruction. As far as the radios, that horse left the barn, and brought back an arsonist. I don't know how it'll all shake out, but I bet it gets stupider before it gets smarter.
People have gotten such a "don't tell me what to do" attitude that they don't want or can't handle personal instruction. They don't want an actual human telling them, "No, you can't do that." That's a bigger kettle of glue than we can deal with here.
I don't know how to get people to care or to ask for instruction. As far as the radios, that horse left the barn, and brought back an arsonist. I don't know how it'll all shake out, but I bet it gets stupider before it gets smarter.
This is exactly correct. I use some Motorola stuff on VHF, UHF and 900 MHz (also UHF I guess by definition) and I have a lot programmed into the VHF and UHF ones. We do a fair amount of DMR around here and I got tired pretty quickly of the ANYBAORET stuff. After a brief comparison yes, there "IS" a difference. I had an Anytone 578 and it worked "ok" don't get me wrong but after testing against a Motorola 4550 (old by comparison) that Anytone is gone and two others took it's place. Try the CCR stuff in downtown St Louis, and you'll easily see the difference. I have multiple frequencies I'm not licensed for, in all of those including some stuff on the 800-900 bands BUT, they are set to receive only, and I don't ever need to worry about keying up in the wrong place or, if i happen to loan one out to someone for a bit, I don't need to worry about what they're doing with it.
I agree. How did this radio get a Part 90 Equipment Authorization with an emission designator indicating a bandwidth greater than 11 kHz? We all know that the FCC doesn't test radios; they just review the results provided by a 3rd party lab. But, why didn't the FCC's review of this application flag the emission designator?
As for how to address this problem, I think it falls on all of us amateur radio operators to mentor the new folks. Yes, doing so might label us as "sad hams". I. Don't. Care. We have a responsibility as amateur radio operators be good stewards of the spectrum and teach our fellows to do the same.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
That part. This is why the FCC has, time and time again, gone full stop after LICENSED HAMS who do stupid radio stuff like:
Transmitting on USFS frequencies without authorization
Illicitly program/clone public safety subscriber radios on public safety trunking networks without authorization
Operate AM/FM broadcast transmitters without authorization
In case one missed it, the takeaway is WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION
The FCC has spoken. That is all that really matters. No one can legitimize unauthorized operation. No one. Hams should know better, and do better. This what the FCC expects.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I agree.
Hams like to say they are "self policing". They aren't.
If hams were -really- self policing, there'd be much more effort to reign in this kind of behavior. Hams would be taught the rules. Not the made up/imagined rules, but the rules that the FCC publishes and requires all hams to know. There would be elmers that would help correct this behavior, rather than encourage it.
Applies to all the personal radio services, but I know that's asking a lot.
Why would any License Amateur Radio Operator put their License at risk, by transmitting on Public Safety Systems?
According to my knowledge, in order to transmit on Public Safety Channels, it must be life and death.
Unless, that Amateur Radio Operator had a Life and Death, they would be lucky to get stern warning or even a not so hefty fine from the FCC.
According to my knowledge, in order to transmit on Public Safety Channels, it must be life and death.
Unless, that Amateur Radio Operator had a Life and Death, they would be lucky to get stern warning or even a not so hefty fine from the FCC.
Here we go again. As an amateur radio licensee, you are never ever ever permitted to transmit on public safety or other licenses frequencies in other radio spectrum. EVER. Think of it this way, unless you have been handed a public safety radio with instructions on when, how and what to transmit, you aren't authorized.
The part in the FCC regulations noting "in an emergency" specifically relates to Part 97 only, and really means that a technician level licensee won't be penalized in a life or death scenario for using Extra Class spectrum. PERIOD. That is as far as your emergency permissions go, and they all stay in Amateur Radio Spectrum.
Stop spreading the asinine rumors of emergency mixed with public safety. It's exactly how this idiot got nabbed.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Your knowledge, as well as MANY other hams, is incorrect.
The FCC is abundantly clear that the amateur radio licenses provides precisely ZERO authorization to transmit outside the very clearly defined amateur radio bands.
Transmitting outside the ham bands, even in an emergency, real or imagined, is against several FCC rules. There is not secret hidden rule. There is no misunderstanding. There is no waiver.
Here it is again:
97.405 Station in distress.
(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a)of this section, of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.
Key words are "these rules". These rules are Part 97. Part 97 -only- gives authorization to use Part 97 frequencies. Part 90 frequencies are NOT the same as Part 97 frequencies. Transmitting under any other radio service requires following the rules of that radio service. Specifically, licensing, type acceptance, etc.
FCC Part 2, known as the "general rules" that apply to all radio services, including amateur radio says:
§ 2.405 Operation during emergency.
The licensee of any station (except amateur, standard broadcast, FM broadcast, noncommercial educational FM broadcast, or television broadcast) may, during a period of emergency in which normal communication facilities are disrupted as a result of hurricane, flood, earthquake, or similar disaster, utilize such station for emergency communication service in communicating in a manner other than that specified in the instrument of authorization: Provided:
(a) That as soon as possible after the beginning of such emergency use, notice be sent to the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau of the Commission at Washington, D.C., stating the nature of the emergency and the use to which the station is being put, and
(b) That the emergency use of the station shall be discontinued as soon as substantially normal communication facilities are again available, and
(c) That the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau of the Commission at Washington, D.C., shall be notified immediately when such special use of the station is terminated: Provided further,
(d) That in no event shall any station engage in emergency transmission on frequencies other than, or with power in excess of, that specified in the instrument of authorization or as otherwise expressly provided by the Commission, or by law: And provided further,
(e) That any such emergency communication undertaken under this section shall terminate upon order of the Commission.
Please notice that it says "except amateur", meaning that amateur radio does NOT have permission to do this. No fine print, no waiver, nothing.
The whole hammy "transmit anywhere in an emergency" thing is not the core issue here, but it's been brought up a few times.
My biggest contention/observation is why any ham would think this provision applies outside of Part 97? I've never read that as I can pop up on literally any frequency governed by any part of Title 47 CFR Part XX in case of emergency, rather that I can transmit out of my licensed privileges within Part 97 to summon assistance if needed. I guess it's high time the FCC update 97.403 and 97.405 to expressly say that.
Amateur radio used to be a technical fraternity (a broad term; I'm not advocating female exclusion) that had a bar of entry that required the desire to possess the skill and know-how necessary. No, this is not a no-code Tech bash - but it absolutely is a bash on this influx of lazy prepper/YouTube appliance operator types that fill the world with useless drivel and fantasy of using a $30 CCP radio as their doomsday salvation. "Some people" (I'm looking at you, NotARubicon) have filled so many heads with useless crap and we keep seeing the result.
I don't care how many people have ham licenses, but I absolutely care that everyone with a ham license isn't a no-skill putz.
*edited to be nicer
My biggest contention/observation is why any ham would think this provision applies outside of Part 97? I've never read that as I can pop up on literally any frequency governed by any part of Title 47 CFR Part XX in case of emergency, rather that I can transmit out of my licensed privileges within Part 97 to summon assistance if needed. I guess it's high time the FCC update 97.403 and 97.405 to expressly say that.
Amateur radio used to be a technical fraternity (a broad term; I'm not advocating female exclusion) that had a bar of entry that required the desire to possess the skill and know-how necessary. No, this is not a no-code Tech bash - but it absolutely is a bash on this influx of lazy prepper/YouTube appliance operator types that fill the world with useless drivel and fantasy of using a $30 CCP radio as their doomsday salvation. "Some people" (I'm looking at you, NotARubicon) have filled so many heads with useless crap and we keep seeing the result.
I don't care how many people have ham licenses, but I absolutely care that everyone with a ham license isn't a no-skill putz.
*edited to be nicer
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Say it again louder for all the mouth-breathers in the back!
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
If the FCC wanted hams to use other frequencies in an emergency, they would have spelled it out exactly like they did here:
Hams ~think~ they have authorizations, but they don't.
§ 97.401 Operation during a disaster.
A station in, or within 92.6 km (50 nautical miles) of, Alaska may transmit emissions J3E and R3E on the channel at 5.1675 MHz (assigned frequency 5.1689 MHz) for emergency communications. The channel must be shared with stations licensed in the Alaska-Private Fixed Service. The transmitter power must not exceed 150 W PEP. A station in, or within 92.6 km of, Alaska may transmit communications for tests and training drills necessary to ensure the establishment, operation, and maintenance of emergency communication systems.
But they didn't. Hams ~think~ they have authorizations, but they don't.
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