FCC Invites Comments on Amateur Radio-Related Petition for Rule Making

[ipfd320]

The FCC has invited public comments on a Petition for Rule Making(RM-11826) from an Ohio radio amateur seeking to amend the Part 97 station identification rules to better accommodate and simplify station identification during an emergency net, drill, or activation. ARRL member Robert A. Dukish, KK8DX, filed the petition in December, and the FCC put it on public notice this week. Dukish seeks a change to Section 97.119(a) of the rules, which requires an amateur station to transmit its "assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication."

He noted that during emergency networks, requiring participating stations -- often portable -- to use their assigned call signs during each transmission could prove "burdensome and can hinder the flow of emergency traffic on the channel."

Specifically, he is suggesting that a simple approach would be to permit the net control station or other designated participant to announce from a single point the call signs of every station taking part in the net or exercise, when tactical call signs often are in use, at 10-minute intervals, using automatic CW identification.

Dukish suggested amending Section 97.119(a) to add, "except during a local emergency network activation or drill," and providing that in such situations, a net control or designations station would be "authorized to announce all participating stations' assigned call signs at no more than 10-minute intervals while the net is in progress." The amendment would provide that participating stations "be within a 50-mile distance of the identifying station, and each individual station must self-identify by transmitting its assigned call sign at least once per hour." CW transmission could be no faster than 25 WPM if sent automatically to satisfy the suggested amendment.

Interested parties may comment via the FCC Electronic Comment Filing Service (ECFS).

 

[DaveNF2G]

Dukish suggested amending Section 97.119(a) to add, "except during a local emergency network activation or drill," and providing that in such situations, a net control or designations station would be "authorized to announce all participating stations' assigned call signs at no more than 10-minute intervals while the net is in progress."

How is this less likely to "hinder the flow of emergency traffic on the channel" than having stations that are actually transmitting give their callsigns when they need to?

 

[nd5y]

This is proposed rule change is totally unnecessary and I'm surprised the FCC took it seriously and opened it for comments instead of just dismissing it.

 

[mmckenna]

Anyone else tired of amateurs submitting these odd/foolish requests?

What the hell is the point of this? "Tactical Call Signs"? Every time I heard amateurs use the term "Tactical", I know there's B.S. afoot.
So, NetControl has to keep track of the comings and goings of each station, for the length of the exercise/disaster and announce all those call signs. And how is this going to save time?

I think the FCC needs to start charging these guys for submitting things like this. Especially when the "tactical" term gets used.
When it comes to amateur radio operators, tactical = whacker. Whackerism is a disease that needs to be eradicated.

 

[kb2crk]

Here we go, Someone who thinks it takes too long to give a call sign at the end of traffic being sent. They need a tactical boot in the rump for proposing such a silly rule change.

 

[AI7PM]

If amateurs could just grasp the simple net procedure of "Tactical call in-FCC call out". SMDH! I have worked more events and exercises than I recall now, and this simple concept seems an unsurmountable issue for so many, followed by proper calling order and over IDing.

......."burdensome and can hinder the flow of emergency traffic on the channel." BS. What I have observed over time "hinder the flow", is ham jargon, the words "Ah, Om, Ehh", pauses due to not planning the call, unnecessary calls ("I just thought I'd say...), excessive verbiage initiating calls (including over ID) , during the call, and in closing the call (over ID again). All items that are multiple times more verbose than stating one's callsign.

This could be addressed with training. ARES, RACES, and other AuxComm and EMCOMM groups don't take the issue seriously, and/or don't seriously or effectively train on this issue. Listen to many ARES nets, and you'll hear them conducted in the rag chew format, with the NCS adlibing and displaying traits from the above paragraph. Thus, when that group supports an event or incident, the jaws flap like it's the evening BS net with, quick keying, jargon, Q-codes, and other non-sense you wouldn't hear from the local pub drunk.

What a waste of FCC time. I'll gladly comment against RM-11826.

 

[bharvey2]

I lost interest at the word "tactical". That's tango, alpha, charlie...........

 

[ipfd320]

Its not only the tactical garbage what he is also proposing is an automatic CW id---hmmmm something else to load (add) to the radio

So what he is proposing is that you cant be a net operator unless 1-you know cw or 2 have it automatically controlled

Lets say your a non cw operator and you dont have the equipment to be automatic--and were way capible to be a net operator--now we cant if this goes into effect??? Yah Imagine that

I already left my comment on this waste of time piece of rulemaking---if its that troublesome dont be a net operator---why fix something that aint broken

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
Neat ! .... What a cockamamie idea.

(Ack ! I have just been censor'd ! ............... See below **)


On a surface reading this proposal simplifies nothing.... what's it do?- places the responsibilty of identifying all the net stations at a ten minute interval on one who is supposedly in control- identifying everyone regardless if during that time any of those stations had not transmit'd ?... and maybe doing so in 25 WPM Morse ?.... don't forget to bring your 'bug'- or maybe the laptop computer (I like the bug idea better.)
To my way of thinking, there is nothing like a machine gun blast of chirpping high speed code at regular intervals to keep those volunteers awake.
Plus I'm sure there will be a cacophony of 'tactical' callsigns being constantly intermingled with official ones as the individual stations will be intermittently ID'ing on their own 10 minute cycles (like a collection of old parlour clocks not in sync with each other; each chiming away on the quarter hours *)-- this is in addition to ID'ing after every transmission as hams are wont to do.

Now there's the making of a first class Circus !

Bring it on


If anything, I'd like to see the relaxation of the identification rules. Once every 10 minutes is fine- maybe 15, or 20 minutes would be better. Hams love their callsigns, and I have known few that won't throw theirs out at every opportunity. Amateur radio may lack a few things things, but one it doesn't is station identity.

It was a big step forward when the FCC simplified the requirement to give just you own call for ID, and not also include the other station.
Remember this, this "Decalcomanie" ?

"KX9XX here is KZ9ZZ, ---You are right Bob---- Now back to you...... Kilo X-ray the number Nine, X-ray Xerox, this is Kilo Zebra Nine Zany Zulus.... Over Over"

Geeeez


Personally I just throw my call out there, usual once, no phonetics.. in a burst- certainly without ceremony. During a conversation the other station has to be on their toes to catch it, to say nothing of some highly, highly unlikely FCC monitoring station.

Lauri

_____________________________________________
*My childhood- my father collected clocks. No one in household ever knew the correct time.
.
.
** Good gracious, this censorship word check'r chopped up my perfectly fine old expression !-- its from the French décalcomanie .... look it up.
...................... Ay Chihuahua !!!!

 

[nd5y]

Tactical callsigns are BS. Net control should be smart enough to make a list of all participants, their locations or functions and keep track of them.

 

[kb2crk]

Tactical call signs
Eunuch 1 through 10
Pronounced Unic
Unic 1 this is unic 2 how copy....
Emergency communications are supposed to be plain language for interoperability as per DHS.

 

[nd5y]

Emergency communications are supposed to be plain language for interoperability as per DHS.

That has nothing to do with ham radio.

 

[kb2crk]

.
Neat ! .... What a ****amamie idea.

(Ack ! I have just been censor'd ! ............... See below **)


On a surface reading this proposal simplifies nothing.... what's it do?- places the responsibilty of identifying all the net stations at a ten minute interval on one who is supposedly in control- identifying everyone regardless if during that time any of those stations had not transmit'd ?... and maybe doing so in 25 WPM Morse ?.... don't forget to bring your 'bug'- or maybe the laptop computer (I like the bug idea better.)
To my way of thinking, there is nothing like a machine gun blast of chirpping high speed code at regular intervals to keep those volunteers awake.
Plus I'm sure there will be a cacophony of 'tactical' callsigns being constantly intermingled with official ones as the individual stations will be intermittently ID'ing on their own 10 minute cycles (like a collection of old parlour clocks not in sync with each other; each chiming away on the quarter hours *)-- this is in addition to ID'ing after every transmission as hams are wont to do.

Now there's the making of a first class Circus !

Bring it on


If anything, I'd like to see the relaxation of the identification rules. Once every 10 minutes is fine- maybe 15, or 20 minutes would be better. Hams love their callsigns, and I have known few that won't throw theirs out at every opportunity. Amateur radio may lack a few things things, but one it doesn't is station identity.

It was a big step forward when the FCC simplified the requirement to give just you own call for ID, and not also include the other station.
Remember this, this "Decalcomanie" ?

"KX9XX here is KZ9ZZ, ---You are right Bob---- Now back to you...... Kilo X-ray the number Nine, X-ray Xerox, this is Kilo Zebra Nine Zany Zulus.... Over Over"

Geeeez


Personally I just throw my call out there, usual once, no phonetics.. in a burst- certainly without ceremony. During a conversation the other station has to be on their toes to catch it, to say nothing of some highly, highly unlikely FCC monitoring station.

Lauri

_____________________________________________
*My childhood- my father collected clocks. No one in household ever knew the correct time.
.
.
** Good gracious, this censorship word check'r chopped up my perfectly fine old expression !-- its from the French décalcomanie .... look it up.
...................... Ay Chihuahua !!!!

Kockamamie, there you just have to misspell it for it to work

 

[N4GIX]

I honestly do not see the problem. When I check into a net, I give my call sign phonetically, then repeat it normally*. Net control at some point acknowledges my check in. There is now no need for me to repeat my call at all since my transmission was ended! Unless I am called, or need to call net control, I'm just a listener...
...and listeners aren't required to announce their call again. Period.

*Nota Bene: giving your call only phonetically does not satisfy legal requirements. The reason why one should give their call "normally" after spelling it out phonetically is so that is the very last thing in your transmission.

"Net Control, please copy November Four Golf India X-Ray, Bill, Hammond, no traffic. N4GIX"

 

[bharvey2]

I honestly do not see the problem. When I check into a net, I give my call sign phonetically, then repeat it normally*. Net control at some point acknowledges my check in. There is now no need for me to repeat my call at all since my transmission was ended! Unless I am called, or need to call net control, I'm just a listener...
...and listeners aren't required to announce their call again. Period.

*Nota Bene: giving your call only phonetically does not satisfy legal requirements. The reason why one should give their call "normally" after spelling it out phonetically is so that is the very last thing in your transmission.

"Net Control, please copy November Four Golf India X-Ray, Bill, Hammond, no traffic. N4GIX"

Yep. A solution in search of a problem.

 

[AK_SAR]

Interesting discussion. As a relatively new Ham, I've only participated in a couple of events. On our local VHF check in net we just check in with call sign, repeated twice.

On the other hand, over the last 25 years or so, I've participated in numerous real deal SAR events as a volunteer, using Part 90 frequencies. In that case we always use tactical call signs, and rarely if ever use "official" call signs. Part of the reason is that we are often using multiple frequencies which the FCC has assigned to various organizations. We will often use one frequency for command, and second for tactical. In some cases the FCC has assigned the same frequency to multiple organizations. For example, 155.16 (commonly known as "NATSAR") has been assigned to KC4070 (State of Alaska), and also assigned to KA5669 (Alaska Mountain Rescue Group).

On real missions, if I'm in the ICP, working for the State Troopers, using 155.16 to talk to an AMRG team in the field, trying to use official call signs just needlessly complicates things. Rather it will be something like "Strike Team 2, this is Base, over". When the poop hits the prop, with people operating in dangerous terrain and lives are on the line, efficiency rules. In the last 25 years I have yet to hear an objection from the FCC or anyone else.

EDIT: It gets even more complicated. In my example above, Strike Teams 3 and 4 are also on 155.16, but are not part of AMRG. They might be from our local search dog organization, or the Ski Patrol. Tactical call signs, assigned only for that particular mission, are what we always use.

 

[N4GIX]

Yep. A solution in search of a problem.

As a frequent Net Control operator for our local club's weekly net, this is the relevant part of our Net Script:

For anyone checking into tonight’s net, (Tell hams how you want them to check in)

Slowly give your call sign phonetically, name and location for the clubs log. Repeat your call sign normally to end your reply.

For example, my call is November – Four – Golf – India – Xray … Bill, Hammond, no traffic. N4GIX. You can add traffic or no traffic when check in to tonight’s net.

As the net control operator I announce my call sign every ten minutes at least, often even more frequently than actually required!

 

[AI7PM]

Tactical callsigns are BS. Net control should be smart enough to make a list of all participants, their locations or functions and keep track of them.

Disagree. When supporting an event, net shouldn't care or track who's working "Shelter 2". There may be multiple different hams who work "Shelter 2" over the course of the day. Just call Shelter 2, "Shelter 2", and who ever has the watch can answer the call, then sign with their FCC call sign. It greatly simplifies the process.

 

[nd5y]

*Nota Bene: giving your call only phonetically does not satisfy legal requirements. The reason why one should give their call "normally" after spelling it out phonetically is so that is the very last thing in your transmission.

Where did you learn that BS from?

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

I love reading, then sea-lawyer a piece from The Regulations.


In Field Camps we often will sit about a blazing woodstove and read a Part, or two aloud on Sundays, for the mental gymnastics, and to ward off boredom; for they contain much informative material as well as religious instruction---- *

__________________________________________________________________________


§97.119 Station identification.

(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions.

(2) By a phone emission in the English language. Use of a phonetic alphabet as an aid for correct station identification is encouraged;


The Regulations don't say they prohibit using only phonetic, but as of my reading, they seem to encourage it at the possible exclusion of simple letters and numbers. Seems the Regulations leave that choice open to the operator.


______________________________________________________________________


On an aside, as we continuing with §97.119 , coming to:

§97.119
(1) By a CW emission. When keyed by an automatic device used only for identification, the speed must not exceed 20 words per minute......


(how many else smell'd something funny with that 25 wpm ? Of course that's for something automatic......... but is some NCS operator going to sit there and chirp out all those calls by hand every 10 miutes...give me a break...)


Note the author of the Petition for Rule Making(RM-11826) did not do his homework.... with that code speed. Right there he has lost all credibility with me- for I am such a stickler for dotting 'i's" and "t" crossings....... (Yea)


Lauri




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*My apologies, Mark Twain, ..................... Roughing It