FCC Invites Comments on ARRL Technician Enhancement Proposal

Should U.S. amateur radio licensing (classes and privileges) be revamped?

  • Turn it all over to the military; let them decide how to administer hobby radio services.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    99
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RFI-EMI-GUY

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@mmckenna summed it up really well. I'm very proud of my accomplishments, ham radio included. I got my first license at a fairly early age, I've progressed through Extra. I've built a really nice station. I too can copy CW and send crazy fast. Here I am as of 10 minutes ago talking to some guy in Japan using nothing more than a radio and wire. I'm very proud of it all, and still very amazed by how cool this stuff is.

What I don't do is go brag about how much better I am than all the other hams, and that how I'm somehow elite because I've done those things. We're here 12 years later and the folks who took the CW exam are still complaining. It has been over a decade since the requirement was dropped!! Yet they keep stating how much better they are than everyone else, they refer to the Extra - Lite, etc. If you've managed to make it through all 12 pages of this thread, you'll see that there are people advocating for exams/badges/endorsements/etc. simply so they can say they are better than everyone else...or smarter...or know CW...or more electronics theory...or god knows what else.

That's what is a shame. I don't see it much here, admittedly, but visit some of the other forums and see how the no-code techs. are talked down to by the "elite" operators. There are Extras in this world who, believe it or not, won't even talk to the Techs on the radio. No joke! I've seen it myself. Go see the snobbery first hand at some of the club meetings, or at Field Day. That's what I'm not proud of.

I don't think anyone here is seriously advocating badges or other Peaches en Regalia. Just poking fun at snobs. Hopefully nobody is offended.

The survey was pretty revealing.

This group don't need no stink'n badges!

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alcahuete

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I don't think anyone here is seriously advocating badges or other Peaches en Regalia. Just poking fun at snobs. Hopefully nobody is offended.

There actually are people advocating those very things. I haven't lost my sense of humor...it's obvious with all the pictures (including my own) that we were poking some fun. :D :D But there are people earlier in this very thread and most definitely on the ham-only forums that are absolutely advocating these things...believe it or not.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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There actually are people advocating those very things. I haven't lost my sense of humor...it's obvious with all the pictures (including my own) that we were poking some fun. :D :D But there are people earlier in this very thread and most definitely on the ham-only forums that are absolutely advocating these things...believe it or not.
Hmm, maybe a racket I can make some money on. What about Who's Who for Hams? Some of those well heeled big ego types might go for that. A picture of them at the mike. I coukd contact them (all) and tell them that they were selected by a special committee. And of course, for a small fee of $499 they will get the book!

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AK9R

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The ARRL badges signify that the ARRL member has taken on some position within the ARRL. I think that if someone has volunteered their time and "talents" for a role in the ARRL organization, they might deserve some recognition. However, there are almost 823,000 U.S.-licensed amateur radio operators while the ARRL has approximately 170,000 members, some of which are licensed outside the U.S., so I don't think what the ARRL does can be used as an indication of what the U.S. amateur radio community wants. In other words, I think that the ARRL badge program is a red herring in the context of expanding Technician license privileges.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have possessed two ARRL badges: An orange one while I was a District Emergency Coordinator. I filed that one when I gave up the position. I still have a yellow one which signifies that I'm an ARRL Life Member. I wear it to ARRL meetings, but that's about it. I could hold a Novice license and have a yellow badge, so it signifies very little in the way of achievement.

I don't know if you guys can see the poll results while it's still running. There have been 42 votes cast, which is minuscule compared to the U.S. amateur radio license population. 16 votes favor one IARU-compliant license for everyone. 15 votes favor giving Technicians some HF privileges. 11 votes favor closing this thread. I have no plans to do so, but it does make you wonder why folks want to stifle the conversation or don't want to see it discussed. Hmmm...
 

KE0GXN

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Echo Mike Two-Seven
11 votes favor closing this thread. I have no plans to do so, but it does make you wonder why folks want to stifle the conversation or don't want to see it discussed. Hmmm...

Because what I have noticed within our hobby is some folks are very resistant to change and or progress. They feel they will be somehow edged out and no longer relevant. Which is a shame...

And yes, for disclosure, I have one ARRL badge. My VE badge.

Funny you mention your life badge. We have a few life members in the club. One in particular is very prideful in being a life member, so much so he mentions it anytime he is asked to introduce himself during meetings to new club members . He does this knowing full well we will all rib him to death about it every time. We all enjoy a good heart-ed laugh with him every time he mentions his ARRL membership status and love him to death, he is a great guy who has mentored many of us and is always offering to help anybody with a question or project. Has been a ham longer than I have been alive.

He may be a life member toting badge holder who will let anyone and everyone know about it, but by the same token is also very accepting of change, far from a snob and does not have a shred of elitism about him.

To me he is what amateur radio should be all about.
 
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W5lz

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I think I have to agree with where you are going. Bragging about accomplishments is asking to be "shown-up", and it usually happens. The part about that bragging the will bite you is that there will always be someone who can do more. Like knowing code. I was licensed at a time when everybody had to do it.. So, big deal. I also never expected to get an Extra license, the required knowledge to pass the test just was more than I thought I could do. Turned out that "knowledge" was a matter of being exposed to -having- to know that stuff to do what I wanted to do. Just takes time and wanting to do it. (That last little 'pearl of wisdom' had to be the hardest part!) There are very few things that you -can't do- if you wanna do it. I'm still working on flapping my arms and flying. But I do have the license to fly when I do it!
 

KE0GXN

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Echo Mike Two-Seven
I see nothing wrong with being prideful about one's accomplishments. Whether that is being a 20 wpm Extra, ARRL badge holder, etc..

My thing is, you should also be willing to share that knowledge and experience in gaining your different accomplishments with others, while also being mindful that everyone may not be interested in mirroring all of your exact accomplishments.

In other words, just because I have no interest at this point in learning the code, does not mean I am less deserving of mentorship in other areas of the hobby by a veteran ham who knows the code.

Unfortunately, there are some among us, who only feel those worthy of mentorship and acceptance are those who desire to be exactly like them or follow their self professed road map to being a "good" ham.... :confused:
 
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MUTNAV

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RFI-EMI-GUY said:

Is that a Rettysnitch I see sheathed on his belt?
Probably a knife so when the deli sammiches are rolled out at the club meeting he can cut himself a big-un.

Although the KofC (which I always thought people were saying KFC when I was young).... and a big thing they do now (to the public) is have spaghetti dinners.
They probably still recall this kind of thing, When in the 20's they were seen as a threat to the Mexican socialist gov't.
The Untold Story of the Knights during the Cristiadacristero2.jpg
Whenever one of them speaks, which just annoys the heck out of me (old loud guys just do that to me),
I try and remember this.

Sorry, they just kill me so bad that I feel obliged to defend them. (ie like saying a prayer for those that make you mad).
Thanks
Joel
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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RFI-EMI-GUY said:

Is that a Rettysnitch I see sheathed on his belt?
Probably a knife so when the deli sammiches are rolled out at the club meeting he can cut himself a big-un.

Although the KofC (which I always thought people were saying KFC when I was young).... and a big thing they do now (to the public) is have spaghetti dinners.
They probably still recall this kind of thing, When in the 20's they were seen as a threat to the Mexican socialist gov't.
The Untold Story of the Knights during the CristiadaView attachment 70728
Whenever one of them speaks, which just annoys the heck out of me (old loud guys just do that to me),
I try and remember this.

Sorry, they just kill me so bad that I feel obliged to defend them. (ie like saying a prayer for those that make you mad).
Thanks
Joel

I went to one of their pancake breakfasts when I was a wee lad. Then Zappa did his song about St. Alfonzos Pancake Breakfast (Where I stole the mar-juh-reen) and even now I cannot separate the two.
 

MUTNAV

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I guess what I meant to get accross was that although what they use as symbols, in this case uniforms, and my general annoyance at them. The symbolism means something to them, and they do have a history. even though they might seem silly to me, as do some radio awards probably seem to others.

Thanks
Joel
 

needairtime

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Wall of text due to mishmash of opinions and ideas... feel free to ignore:

My current interpretation of this poll is that people are just lazy. They want more stuff without working for it, and forget the whole reason why ham radio was there: it was allocated for experimentation, self learning - not free communication - free communication is incidental. People get excited when you hear hams ragchewing, well, this is incidental, not the intent. Obtaining that three way handshake (CQ, reply, CQ-reply) much like TCP was intended to be what one does on amateur bands. Ham bands are there because you cannot practice radio without radio waves, and if you produce a radio wave, you have the potential for interfering. Because of interference, you better know the rules and how to use the rules so that you don't interfere with other people. There's a reason spark gap transmitters were banned and I would expect as a ham you should be able to open a radio and at least verify that it's not a spark gap radio.

There's a significant number of responses indicating they want the exam harder, this is probably the "GET OFF MY LAWN" response, then again I thought the exam was too easy myself, as I one shot it all the way through the extra bits as well. Alas this only reduces the usage and hence increase "waste" of the bands making big business have even more reason to pressure FCC to release spectrum space from us.

Ultimately the reason for loss of interest in ham radio is because it's now so much easier to talk to someone by buying a cell phone or go over the internet. The three way handshake is hidden in the protocol. Don't need to worry about double keying, no worries about sunspots, F-layer, or gray line, and privacy is better. Only a few people in the world make radios and it's not worth it to study in a field that's so mass produced and saturated. Not only that, most people's noise floor in urban areas is so high that it's really hard anyway, and there's enough infrastructure that most populated areas you'll get a cellular signal, no problem. So why get a ham radio license? (A) When communications airtime costs money, (B) lack of infrastructure or destroyed infrastructure, or (C) you truly have an interest in radio technology. First two options are not truly the intent of ham radio! However all we can do to get interest is to focus on the those three options, and those really can't be "tested" on for interest in radio.

Unfortunately it ultimately sounds like most people just want to steal part of the ham bands to be used for "part 15 extended" or "part 95b extended" or "more ISM frequencies" because they don't want to get licensed... "Why does one need a license, this device is plug and play like a cell phone and cellular phones do not need a license." -- It's disappointing.

I'm not even sure the addition of STEM questions would help. Yes, the original intent of ham radio is propagation Science, radio Technology, antenna Engineering, electronics Mathematics. STEM people should already have no problems with the exams, no need to even change it. It's the non-STEM people who want more for less. Do we accommodate or should it be an issue if it were never the intent? (Then there's the Art of hiding antennas in flagpoles and fences for those STEAMers...again this is incidental and not the intent...)

How about another idea: what if the FCC increased the max wattage of a few CB channels, to say, 1500W, would people be happy with this? Note that these new "CBs" must be from the factory hardwired for only using these specific channels so they can't use the high power on the low power channels, much like the FRS/GMRS split? Let the cesspool become a legal cesspool...
 

mmckenna

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How about another idea: what if the FCC increased the max wattage of a few CB channels, to say, 1500W, would people be happy with this? Note that these new "CBs" must be from the factory hardwired for only using these specific channels so they can't use the high power on the low power channels, much like the FRS/GMRS split? Let the cesspool become a legal cesspool...

50 watts on 462/467MHz is essentially the same as 50 watts on 70 centimeters. Sure, you can run a lot more power on 70cm, but many amateurs are running 50 or so.
I know the amateur purists will point out a lot of differences between GMRS and amateur. If you look at what the average amateur is doing on 70cm, it ain't a whole lot different than GMRS… 50 watts or less, FM analog, CTCSS, repeaters... Properly directed consumers would be just as happy on GMRS as 70cm, but most wouldn't know the difference anyway.

As for CB, yeah, making it legal would help, but there's a lot of folks running amps on CB now that really don't give a rip what the FCC thinks. I'd probably have to use all my fingers and most of my toes to count up all the people I've known over the years running amps on CB.
Personally I'd love to see the FCC allow FM on CB, like many other countries already do. That would allow CTCSS/DCS to make it palatable to family use.

MURS has turned into a hobby service for some. Add some more power, and you've got some consumer level competition for 2 meters.

I think the FCC, if they wanted to, could make the personal radio services a bit more attractive for consumers. "MURS'ify" some of the UHF itinerants that are pretty much out of control. GMRS is already pretty useful. Toss some more power at MURS. FM on CB, maybe more power. I doubt most consumers would want to mess with anything much lower than CB due to antenna size.

But, reality is that the FCC isn't going to do anything on their own. It's going to take enough people making noise to get things to change. Without large numbers of organized consumers to make the changes happen, or retailers/manufacturers, it won't likely happen.
 

needairtime

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Well, I was more relating to the FRS 2W/0.5W limit versus the GMRS 50W limit but they share the same frequencies except that you still can't do 50W on especially 8-14 with a GMRS license. The "low power" CB channels would be to not interfere with standard 4 watt CBs. And of course allow sideband on these "new" high power CBs. Hopefully this would satisfy the original poster's topic of letting people who want high wattage HF get high wattage HF without an amateur license because of license-by-rule.

I don't know what the market for these units, however. One for, there would be a limited number of channels and likely would be packed with interference. Also that is true that allowing FM would be nice too, but the bandwidth requirements for FM is pretty harsh. No, please no repeaters on HF. It's okay for VHF/UHF where it must be mostly LoS.

Ultimately due to laziness of people who don't want to study radio is making ARRL/FCC make concessions and making true radio-experimenting amateurs suffer by losing bands...
 

N4GIX

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RFI-EMI-GUY said:

Is that a Rettysnitch I see sheathed on his belt?
Probably a knife so when the deli sammiches are rolled out at the club meeting he can cut himself a big-un.

Although the KofC (which I always thought people were saying KFC when I was young).... and a big thing they do now (to the public) is have spaghetti dinners.
They probably still recall this kind of thing, When in the 20's they were seen as a threat to the Mexican socialist gov't.
Several of my ham club members are very active in KofC and have asked me why I haven't become a member. I've told them more than once that I cannot afford to belong. Which is nothing but the truth; I'm so poor I can't even afford to pay attention! :whistle:
 

RichardW9RAC

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Hello there. The statement I made was of my own opinion. Furthermore, I take no offense of the "Extra lite" remark you made towards me and those like me that have a "deficiency in comparable skills" as you say.....

With that said, I also want you to know, I have no interest or desire in you providing me any "factual information and statistics" on why sometimes no-coders are referred to that way........and I promise, it will not reflect poorly on you or 20 wpm Extras in general.

Take care and 73!
 
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