FCC Opens Rulemaking to Allow Encryption in Amateur Radio Service

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PJH

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Ham radio isn't the government or a function of government (although some ham's think that weaing a ham badge makes them a government agent). Service to the public was an ideal that some hams had which expanded out to what it is today, but not what it was decades before.

Ham radio began from those who wanted to experiment with radio frequency energy, not as a government service at any level.
 

kg9nn

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Ham radio isn't the government or a function of government (although some ham's think that weaing a ham badge makes them a government agent). Service to the public was an ideal that some hams had which expanded out to what it is today, but not what it was decades before.

Ham radio began from those who wanted to experiment with radio frequency energy, not as a government service at any level.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my avatar, but that badge isn't amateur related. I'm a former police officer and now the director of a multi-agency 'public-private partnership' communications network.
 

MTS2000des

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Amateur radio exists to serve the public, and we do that (in part) by providing our services to the public's government. There's an important concept to us Jewish folks called tikkun olam. It means helping to repair the world. While playing radio is fun, if all it did was make me happy without serving others it would be a waste of my time. The idea that our hobby shouldn't be a service to the people via their government strikes me as ham-centric not service-centric.

In theory, and on paper, all radio services exist to "serve the public"

How we got to amateur radio service being an "emergency radio service" is where the whacker factor kicks in.

Show me in the FCC's letter definition where the amateur radio service is an emergency or government radio service. The ONLY FCC authorized and recognized use of amateur radio service spectrum exists in a separate radio service known as RACES.

Yes, amateur radio operators have and will continue to provide valuable community service, but we do this in many ways and with current technology, it's not always amateur radio service specific. It's based on the need at hand and what is most appropriate.

If such a need calls for encryption, that's what part 90 is for. And since you're going to have to maintain and use part 90 gear to use encryption, tell me why it SHOULD NOT be on part 90 spectrum?

Oh wait, you can't- other than a handful of whackers want to pilot donuts and talk smack in AES-256 and you can't lollygag on part 90 spectrum.
 

N4CA

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Amateur radio exists to serve the public, and we do that (in part) by providing our services to the public's government.

You might want to tell the FCC what the purpose of amateur radio is, because they think it is for solely personal reasons.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about&id=amateur
The amateur and amateur-satellite services are for qualified persons of any age who are interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

There's an important concept to us Jewish folks called tikkun olam. It means helping to repair the world. While playing radio is fun, if all it did was make me happy without serving others it would be a waste of my time.
That may be your personal aim, but it is not required by all hams.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
D

DaveNF2G

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I think I will petition the FAA to allow every private pilot to be authorized to fly multiengine jets with missile launchers in case of emergency need.

That makes as much sense as this ham encryption nonsense. We are civilian hobbyists. If we choose to volunteer ourselves and our personally funded equipment to assist our communities, then our communities may either accept what we can offer or go find (and pay for) something more "advanced."
 

AK9R

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I'm not saying that public service justifies encryption on amateur radio, but I would like to counter the arguments that public service is not part of amateur radio.

I quote from 47 CFR 97.1:

§ 97.1 Basis and purpose.
The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur’s proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur’s unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
 

PJH

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I don't think that anyone was saying that its excluded, but that wasn't the intent if the service when it started. I'd love to see the revision of the rule to see when part a was put in the rule. My guess was when the atomic race began.
 

PJH

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I'm not sure if you're referring to my avatar, but that badge isn't amateur related. I'm a former police officer and now the director of a multi-agency 'public-private partnership' communications network.

Nope, actually I wasn't. Your avatar is so small I had to maginfy it a few times to guess what it was...but I was referring to those who wear them like a FCC agent at home or at a hamfest who thinks it gives them some magical power of the CW paddle or repeater. They would be those pesky kilocycle cops...
 

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millrad

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Let's face it, digital VHF and UHF radios are very expensive, and out of the price range of the average ham (including me.) I can't imagine ham radio needing encryption, even in disaster relief communications. If something is too graphic or personal to state verbally on the radio, it can be sent as text with a mode like Packet radio, or the texting message capability of D-Star, for those who have made the D-Star investment.
I foresee the FCC dismissing this ridiculous petition.
Pete Miller
W1AMJ
 

KF4ZMB

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Think about it like keys in an office building. Each door has an individual key (called a 'differ'). That key can be shared and given to anyone who needs access to that room. But there's also the master key. You can re-key the differ as much as you like, but the master will always work. In my proposal, individual hams can set their own differ key and share it with as many or as few people as operations require. The master key would be know only to the Commission and federal law enforcement.

So it wouldn't be enough to buy the radio. You would also need either the differ or master.

I understand what you are saying here, and I am fairly familiar with encrypted systems. The issue still stands, however, that this discussion is not about requiring or not requiring encryption, but rather whether or not encryption should be used, by amateur radio operators, in order to pass "sensitive" information as part of ARES, etc. in an "emergency". Therefore, the FCC requiring encryption is not really the issue at hand here. It is whether or not encryption should be used to pass sensitive information, who exactly determines what is sensitive, and who exactly determines what constitutes an emergency to begin with. Although this is not the case the US over, there used to be a local law enforcement agency near where I live that went to what they called "code" (which was really voice inversion scrambling) whenever they wanted to discuss things they should not have been using the radio for anyway (things like who a particular female might be, if the officer on the other side of the parking lot saw the female wearing the short dress, exactly why so in so was married to you know who, and even profanity). Since voice inversion is fairly easy to "decode" once people started hearing what they were saying the practice stopped. So what is sensitive and does or does not require the use of encryption or scambling, etc. varies from person to person, as I am sure you are aware.

An issue I would forsee with the requirement of encryption by the FCC, and the issuance of a master code by the same FCC, is what would it cost amateur radio operators to obtain the master code? You have already ruled out the possibility, in your scenario, of the radios coming preprogrammed with the master code, and, as a realist, I do not see any branch of the federal government giving out this type of information freely. So, there would most likely be a fee that would have to be paid to the FCC to get the master key. Also, your scenario seems to preclude the possibility of them giving the information out freely since, if they did, a member of the general public could buy the radio, get the free code, and continue listening. Your scenario has ruled out that possibility. Of course it would only be a matter of time before people started selling the code themselves (cheaper than the FCC of course to make a profit) or simply gave it out to their friends, so the FCC would have to change the master key from time to time. Another fee to get the new one? The same goes with the differs. How much would a club charge for the differ key? Who would they allow to have it? And most importantly exactly what are they discussing that should not be heard by the general public?

As it is, however, the issue at hand is the use of encryption in an emergency, etc. not the requirement of encryption.

Christian KF4ZMB
 

otobmark

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Leading Edge or Trailing.....do you want to be relevant?

I read through the posts with interest. Great insight to what amateur radio currently is. Some only looking backward while others forward. When I was a working photographer I resisted auto exposure and then later autofocus. By the time digital came around I finally learned from my mistakes and jumped right in. Now, I still very seldom use auto exposure but would never remove the function from my cameras. Autofocus I use because of aging eyes but miss the instant selection of where to focus when going old school. Film has qualities that are great but still I do not reject "digital". Remember the great debate over CW test for general? Century old format, still great if you are surrounded by Nazis’ and only have a bayonet and spark gap. I am a technology adopter at this point and would like to be closer to the leading edge than the trailing. I want to use spread spectrum and new digital formats with improved compression. For a while only governments could afford such activity but the paradigm is shifting and advances in technology have lowered the cost to play.
As to encryption, it is but a tool and a technology that should not be confused with the policy on when and how to use it. When I'm in a 35mph zone I don't go 140mph because my car has the capability--It's policy (law) and reason that restrain me. If my car only does 35mph then its utility is small. Some would argue that there is never a situation where going 140mph is necessary or useful which is inaccurate instead of arguing it would be rare which is truer. Encryption policy is no different that frequency policy, and most of us have the ability to use unauthorized frequencies. We can all buy commercial radios. So, why is encryption the one thing that is beyond governance by policy? Now, at this point of the FCC consideration I see no reason that all aspects must be determined in advance and every conceivable issue addressed. Did Henry Ford have to allow for GPS, satellite radio, or even superhighways before building the model A? Will requirements for privacy of medical information stay static? Will other issues arise requiring encryption? If the argument is that amateurs are untrustworthy then why do they have licenses and radios--or cars? The how to deploy encryption is being mastered by PS and the lessons they learn are not secret (key management and so on). CommL’s will still evaluate strengths and weaknesses of equipment, personnel and procedure. If encryption is not called for or unreliable or equipment insufficient then it will not be used.
This is conjecture, but what is the commercial value of amateur spectrum? More and more wireless devices every second for security, convenience, entertainment, commerce and so on will lead to increased demand on spectrum. I cannot guess the current value of just our line of sight spectrum but surely in the tens of billions if not a hundred billion plus. Do you really think it will be left if there is no seriously important public service aspect?
Personal experience:
-Because of involvement with local EM, County fire and Red Cross, we are given repeater sites on county towers and buildings as well as donated equipment. Even private businesses give us access to sites because of public involvement. If we were only a hobby we would not have any of these things.
--We do encourage and facilitate PS personnel getting ham licenses, having good success especially with fire personnel. They in turn have cross-trained us on satellite telephones-data and their trunked radio systems as well as webeo and other software. Our ham group is ICS trained and drilled. ARES and similar groups (SAR) are on the EM flow chart of serving agencies and yes, they don't all know what to do with us-yet.
--We read over the hot wash from 9/11 NYC and discovered that the overstretched hams working ground zero had to improvise slang and code speak to handle some of the Red Cross traffic to conceal from media. Every newsroom worth its salt has banks of scanners and people who understand them and their use. So, there have been and will be a need for encryption--how much I don't know.

In my county we have been invited to the party. Those of us trained try to organize and use "untrained" amateurs during events in a way that helps without putting them underfoot or in the way. Right now the number one thing that our served agencies are crying out for is data transfer: files, documents, photos and so on. Winmail is were we started but it is inadequate. We are working on new ideas as are some other hams around the country that are building mesh networks, linked digital repeaters and other technologies. If we can meet this challenge we will be relevant. We still have some old hams (one about to turn 100) that can dazzle with their traffic handling skills and are disciplined. We now need younger ones who are all about computers, algorithms, and leading edge technologies. We are trying to train for the next event instead of the last one.
Say yes to encryption and all new technologies that advance the art and utility of amateur radio and us as individuals (amateur is misleading in this context-we are skilled). Post 911 we may have to deal with things never before imagined, and the professionals will be overwhelmed completely and it will fall to the people to help themselves and others. I put life and property above hobby. Don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.
 

zeitgeist999

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Oh boy.....

Encryption for amateur radio? Ha ha! Next hams will need to buy burned out Crown Vic's from their local police auction, complete with transport cages, radars, sirens, and lights "just in case" they are needed for that next big disaster. They will also need "Official Amateur Radio Operator" metal badges they can flash from their wallet when they arrive on scene, letting public safety officials know they can relax and breath easier. Oh wait....we already have people doing that. I think they are affectionately known as "Whackers." How much rolling code encryption does one need to relay the message, "I think I see cloud rotation."
 

MTS2000des

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Forward thinking?
Yeah, I want this guy rolling up to my hospital telling me what to do and where to go, because he "knows better" than what us piddly lowly hospital folks do and he is SURELY more trained than any of our staff:
n5tmz.jpg

and of course he would not be completely ready for ARES duty without his AES-256 equipped:
MotoWakr_zps252b0ea8.jpg
 

rogerx

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Reading a bit from the original first posts on this thread, I need to reiterate; No confidential is ever discussed on 911 dispatch or ambulance radios. All encrypted frequencies should be kept separate of dispatch, as there is a reason as to why dispatch and follow-up calls are transmitted in the clear for the general public to hear. One reason, for any first responder within the area in case response fails or things get worse.

Post follow-ups here:
http://forums.radioreference.com/ra...-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption-11.html

Encryption for ham is not needed. Only the rich folks whom own a repeater would implement encryption. The only thing really needing encryption is for banking data, and when first logging in with a password if needed for maintanance or administration of a system. Communication or socializing is just like the Bible.

Bring back the days of the post King James Bible era when the Bible was unreadable (or considered encrypted), and we'll easily loose our ways and fall into many wars and conflicts again. But those prospering within the Defense sector would truly enjoy this. ;-)

People really need to band together here and fight the expoitation of encryption. The Word of God was not meant to be encrypted, or was it?

(Eh, and I only have some rudimentary knowledge of World War I and World War II. How easily people forget, or how lazily they believe only Jews were affected, when everybody except Germans within Poland were exterminated because knowbody knew what truly was going on? Truly sickening what's become of encryption these days. I don't use it but for a few tasks. Not only this, but it wastes energy!)
 

com501

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I think I have mentioned this a couple of times. With the way things are trending in modern DHS comms, with the advent of most all networks going encrypted on major events, I see the day where unless hams volunteering their services to emergency responders to help with comms are encryption capable, they will be politely invited to go home, just like any other civilian with a bubble pack radio. This is certainly the trend. Why not position our service to at least be capable?
Why not be familiar with yet another level of modern technology instead of shouting our favorite NIMBY slogans?
Further cementing our community relationships with local, regional, state and national agencies during disaster and special event comms, and giving them warm fuzzies about our capabilities is certainly something we should wish to commit to. Why wait until the very last minute when we can be proactive, instead of potentially getting the 'adios' from the folks in charge when we show up on site?

Shouldn't we ALL be looking at ways to further utilize the amount of bandwidth we occupy now, rather than waiting until some commercial entity starts pushing the FCC to start snatching some of it away for their slice of the pie?
 

Heterodyne

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and of course he would not be completely ready for ARES duty without his AES-256 equipped:
MotoWakr_zps252b0ea8.jpg

Woah... Mike taking some shrapnel there.

The sentiment of this thread is sound.

The only people who are excited about this are whackers, but there is a place for encryption in ham radio as part of experimentation.

Industry Canada has all but endorsed a radio club in Winnipeg that uses active encryption on their repeater. The key was made public, and anybody with the correct equipment is welcome to take part.

The experimentation aspect of ham radio is dead. The hobby has been taken over by elderly and grumpy appliance operators who consider anything but CSQ analog to be verboten.

The collective hissyfit over anything new (digital modes, internet-based linking (IRLP/Echolink), etc.) is evidence of this. Some hams throw a fit if you dare put a PL tone on your repeater.

Ham radio is a hobby where innovation is frowned upon and change is fought tooth and nail. It's why older hams never respond to an unfamiliar callsign on a repeater, and new hams seldom stay in the hobby past a couple of years.
 

MTS2000des

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see that's the thing here, the proposer wants to encrypt for the wrong reasons- to serve some imaginary third parties whims-not experiment with new technologies, or secure a network to prevent unauthorized use by non-hams. That's the difference between a legitimate issue that can arise in a modern IP infrastructure environment and a small group of whackers who are waving around all this mantra about EMCOMM requiring encryption.

It's a poorly worded rulemaking proposal based on whackerism. If it were for other reasons like those I mentioned and NOT for the purpose of "obscuring the meaning of transmissions through the use of codes and ciphers" I might feel differently.
 
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