FCC REBANDING Discussion Thread

[n4voxgill]

I hope that the agencies that will effected by rebanding have already selected and contracted with competent consultants to ensure a smooth transition.

Sadly some agencies will still by trying to figure out what to do when the voluntary time runs out and they are forced into mandatory negotiations.

Say what you want about Netel, but they have fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to be hard bargainers. This is a billion dollar process. They will certainly bring an A Team to the table to negotiate.

Gill

 

[loumaag]

The FCC Order, referenced by scanner_freak can be found here:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-1546A1.pdf
Note that there are new FCC License designations in this document as well as a list of the affected areas in Wave 1. Also, that all 800 MHz license applications in the affected regions (and within 70 miles) are suspended until after the region is reconfigured.

 

[scannerfreak]

Haven't gone through all 7 pages so if this is duplicated, please ignore:

From the Indiana Scanning Yahoo Group:

I emailed RS to ask them about the rebanding. Here are the emails
that I got back. I don't know if it will help anybody, but here it
is!!!!

Thank you for the e-mail,

Unfortunately, the Pro-95 will not be able to be rebanded. The Pro-
96,
97 and 2096 will.


To better assist you with future questions, please respond to this
original email with the REPLY option.

Thank you,
Lori
RadioShack Product Support Center
LN/kk

http://www.radioshack.com


Here is another email from Radio Shack

The PRO-96 and PRO-2096 includes a
"custom table" range configuration that allows up to six table
configurations to be defined for both Motorola and P25 trunked radio
systems. A custom table range configuration consists of a base
frequency

(i.e., "Base = Channel 1"), a step size for the range (i.e., "Channel
N
= Base + N * Step") and an offset value (i.e., "Offset the channel
number by this value").

In the current Motorola channel plan for the 800 MHz band, there are
four or five range definitions that allow Motorola radios to access
every frequency in the 800 MHz band. We know what these ranges are,
and
have hard coded them into the PRO-96 and PRO-2096, so the radios
behave
exactly like Motorola radios when trunking the 800 MHz band.

In testing the six custom ranges, we were able to successfully
trunktrack the 800 MHz Motorola systems by turning the custom range
feature on and hand programming the 4 or 5 ranges that Motorola uses
to
define the 800 MHz band.

So...

Once the new Motorola bandplan for the reconfigured 800 MHz band is
known, it should be a very simple matter indeed to come up with the
correct base, step and offset values to make the PRO-96 and PRO-2096
track the 800 MHz band correctly on systems that have been rebanded.
With the exception of the actual channel tables themselves. We are
aware

of what Motorola plans to do with the their 800 MHz channel mapping,
and

are very confident that the PRO-96 and the PRO-2096 will be able
handle
800 MHz rebanding just fine.




To better assist you with future questions, please respond to this
original email with the REPLY option.

Thank you,
Lori
RadioShack Product Support Center
LN/kk

According to this, only 3 RS scanners will be able to be re-banded...

 

[scannerfreak]

Another Interesting News Article on Rebanding

A majority of commissioners at the Federal Communications Commission have voted to support a plan that provides Nextel Communications Inc. valuable new spectrum in exchange for clearing up interference problems with public safety communications, although Nextel would have to pay $1.3 billion to $1.5 billion more than it has proposed, according to FCC sources.
Approval of the plan could deliver a major blow to Nextel's rival cellular carriers, who have spent a great deal of time lobbying the FCC to auction off the spectrum Nextel wants, arguing that not doing so would give away billions of dollars worth of public resources. Reston-based Nextel has argued that its existing proposal is sufficient payment for the new airwaves, which are considered particularly efficient for carrying cellular and high-speed Internet traffic.

Nextel spokeswoman Lee Horner declined to comment.
The public safety interference problem first surfaced in 1999 in Portland, Ore., and Phoenix. It occurred largely because Nextel, the nation's sixth-largest wireless provider, carries its phone calls on frequencies that interweave with those used by fire and public safety communications systems -- the result of its purchases of old radio frequencies at the time it formed its cellular network. Some public safety groups say an unofficial tally indicated between 750 and 1,000 emergency communications nationally have been blocked or subjected to interference.

Efforts by Nextel

Efforts by Nextel and the public safety groups to fix the problems by adjusting antennas and power levels were unsuccessful.

In 2002, Nextel and public safety groups filed a plan with the FCC in which Nextel proposed to pay $550 million -- which it later increased to $850 million -- to untangle its airwaves from public safety and other private users of the 800-megahertz frequency where those groups operate. In addition, the company said it would be willing to give up some of the airwaves in that range in exchange for airwaves in a higher, more efficient frequency that is near other cellular companies' spectrum.
Even though three of the five commissioners -- Chairman Michael K. Powell, Kevin J. Martin, and Michael J. Copps -- have voted in favor of the plan, many aspects of the proposal remain fluid, including the method and exactly how much Nextel would pay, according to staff sources who work with commissioners, who spoke on condition they not be named because the commissioners' votes have not been made public.

Value of the Spectrum

While all parties say the first priority is to fix the public safety problems, much of the debate has centered on the value of the spectrum Nextel stands to gain.

Verizon Wireless, Cingular Wireless and the Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association vehemently opposed Nextel's plan, calling the spectrum exchange a "giveaway" worth as much as $7 billion to Nextel. Those groups have threatened a legal challenge to any plan that gives Nextel a license at the high frequency without an auction, citing the FCC's decade-old policy of auctioning off spectrum to the highest bidder.
The companies have some support on Capitol Hill; in February, 23 members of the House Commerce Committee signed a letter to Powell requesting that the commission not grant spectrum to Nextel without a competitive bidding process.

FCC Carefully Crafting Its Proposal

The FCC is carefully crafting its proposal to hold up against such a legal challenge, according to sources in the commissioners' offices and in the wireless bureau. The FCC appeared to win its own support from Capitol Hill when Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) sent a letter dated March 26 to Powell urging him to consider all options, but noting "as an author of the spectrum program, I do not think an auction would be required in this instance."

Additionally, FCC economists conducted their own study valuing the spectrum and found that the aggregate value of what Nextel could end up with is roughly $1.3 billion to $1.5 billion more than Nextel's current estimate, a source at the FCC's wireless bureau confirmed.
The FCC is scheduled to hold a monthly meeting next Thursday, during which it may consider this issue. At least one commissioner, Kathleen Q. Abernathy, is still mulling an alternative plan to give Nextel credit toward an auction of the desired spectrum, according to a staff source.

http://archives.moneyplans.net/frontend202-verify-7866.html

 

[safetyobc]

Where would the millions of dollars go that the FCC stands to collect? :?

 

[John_M]

Why didn't the other cellular companies begin lobbying earlier? Wave 1 begins 6/27/05.

 

[John_M]

Take a look at this: www.800ta.org/PDFS/guide.pdf

 

[califzeph]

Where would the millions of dollars go that the FCC stands to collect? :?

Into the General Treasury of the US. Congress confiscates all monies.

 

[N_Jay]

Where would the millions of dollars go that the FCC stands to collect? :?

Al the money the FCC collects goes into teh general fund.
Always has, always will.

 

[Caesar]

Haven't gone through all 7 pages so if this is duplicated, please ignore:

From the Indiana Scanning Yahoo Group:

I emailed RS to ask them about the rebanding. Here are the emails
that I got back. I don't know if it will help anybody, but here it
is!!!!

Thank you for the e-mail,

Unfortunately, the Pro-95 will not be able to be rebanded. The Pro-
96,
97 and 2096 will.


To better assist you with future questions, please respond to this
original email with the REPLY option.

Thank you,
Lori
RadioShack Product Support Center
LN/kk

http://www.radioshack.com


Here is another email from Radio Shack

The PRO-96 and PRO-2096 includes a
"custom table" range configuration that allows up to six table
configurations to be defined for both Motorola and P25 trunked radio
systems. A custom table range configuration consists of a base
frequency

(i.e., "Base = Channel 1"), a step size for the range (i.e., "Channel
N
= Base + N * Step") and an offset value (i.e., "Offset the channel
number by this value").

In the current Motorola channel plan for the 800 MHz band, there are
four or five range definitions that allow Motorola radios to access
every frequency in the 800 MHz band. We know what these ranges are,
and
have hard coded them into the PRO-96 and PRO-2096, so the radios
behave
exactly like Motorola radios when trunking the 800 MHz band.

In testing the six custom ranges, we were able to successfully
trunktrack the 800 MHz Motorola systems by turning the custom range
feature on and hand programming the 4 or 5 ranges that Motorola uses
to
define the 800 MHz band.

So...

Once the new Motorola bandplan for the reconfigured 800 MHz band is
known, it should be a very simple matter indeed to come up with the
correct base, step and offset values to make the PRO-96 and PRO-2096
track the 800 MHz band correctly on systems that have been rebanded.
With the exception of the actual channel tables themselves. We are
aware

of what Motorola plans to do with the their 800 MHz channel mapping,
and

are very confident that the PRO-96 and the PRO-2096 will be able
handle
800 MHz rebanding just fine.




To better assist you with future questions, please respond to this
original email with the REPLY option.

Thank you,
Lori
RadioShack Product Support Center
LN/kk

According to this, only 3 RS scanners will be able to be re-banded...

I see this was posted on 5/31, but when was this e-mail sent/recieved?, i ask this, b/c was the Pro 2055 considered in this e-mail as well? Since it is a recent release? but it also not a GRE radio as well, so??? eh, i dunno, just checking, thanks for any info...

 

[n4voxgill]

Where would the millions of dollars go that the FCC stands to collect? :?

Which millions of dollars are you talking about that the FCC will collect from rebanding?

 

[safetyobc]

The ones nextel is using to buy the spectrum.

 

[N_Jay]

The ones nextel is using to buy the spectrum.

The only $$ the US Gov gets is what is left over after they pay for rebanding.

 

[n4voxgill]

The FCC set the value of the additional spectrum that Nextel will receive at $4.8 billion.

Nextel was required to submit letters of credit for $2.5 billion to cover the cost of rebanding.

Nextel was given credit for frequencies they are surrendering back to the FCC of $2.06 billion.

Nextel must pay to relocate any incumbants moved out of 1.9 GHz to give them the two blocks of spectrum. No price put on that yet.

I will be surprised if rebanding doesn't go over the 2.5 mark.

So as of now the most that we be left over from$4.8 billion minus 4.56 is $240 million, but most if not all of that will go to 1.9 GHz or cost over runs.

Now the FCC can auction off the frequencies that Nextel returns that the FCC set a value of $2.06 billion.

Now does that money go to the general fund, or is congress going to start spending it on buying satelite dishes and digital TVs for poor people that are impacted by DTV and clearing the 700 spectrum for public safety. I hope they buy me one of those DTV things.

 

[Voyager]

Now the FCC can auction off the frequencies that Nextel returns that the FCC set a value of $2.06 billion.

What frequencies are those?

Another interesting turn: I hear NexTel is starting to offer PS agencies exclusively NexTel service.

Let me guess. This is going to be a way NexTel can remain in the new PS 800 MHz band (851-854.75) AND get access to the 866 MHz frequencies. THEY want to own the PS trunk systems.

Just a wild left field thought? Or a devious plan? Stay tuned...

Joe M.

 

[n4voxgill]

Nextel has been offering priority service to public safety for a couple of years. It uses their existing frequeancies/system. They are not an eligible for public safety frequencies so they can't apply. They have system capacity to add many more users.

 

[n4voxgill]

Now the FCC can auction off the frequencies that Nextel returns that the FCC set a value of $2.06 billion.

What frequencies are those?

Joe M.

Nextel won an auction for 700 MHz frequeanies that are being turned back, along with some 800 frequencies. The FCC set the value on them.

Gill

 

[Voyager]

Now the FCC can auction off the frequencies that Nextel returns that the FCC set a value of $2.06 billion.

What frequencies are those?

Joe M.

Nextel won an auction for 700 MHz frequeanies that are being turned back, along with some 800 frequencies. The FCC set the value on them.

Gill

OK. TY.

As for NexTel being able to operate a PS system, they certainly can. There is nothing that says the infrastructure MUST be owned by a PS entity. The license MAY be an issue, but a simple MOU from an elegible licensee can fix that real quick.

I just wouldn't put it past NexTel to want to do for PS what they've done for business (some would say TO business). :wink:

Joe M.

 

[N_Jay]

Now the FCC can auction off the frequencies that Nextel returns that the FCC set a value of $2.06 billion.

What frequencies are those?

Joe M.

Nextel won an auction for 700 MHz frequeanies that are being turned back, along with some 800 frequencies. The FCC set the value on them.

Gill

OK. TY.

As for NexTel being able to operate a PS system, they certainly can. There is nothing that says the infrastructure MUST be owned by a PS entity. The license MAY be an issue, but a simple MOU from an elegible licensee can fix that real quick.

I just wouldn't put it past NexTel to want to do for PS what they've done for business (some would say TO business). :wink:

Joe M.

Too late

http://mrtmag.com/news/nextel_iden_public_060205/

 

[billpoe]

Just received an email back from Uniden Customer Service stating that no update would be available for my BC785D. This effectively renders a $600 radio and digital card useless for trunktracking once the rebanding is implemented. I just found out recently about the FCC change and am astonished the manufacturers did not see it coming. Does anyone know if an aftermarket update will be available for Uniden late model (mine is less than a year old) radios besides the 296/796 models?

Bill Poe