Fight Against Encryption

[rjh]

Encryption

Hi,

You're not going to change any agencies opinion on this. People here, have such pie in the sky answers for things it's painfully embarrassing. The agencies think they have reason, right, need, etc to encrypt and you're not going to change that.

It's like all the lists out there, a few whine about this and that, which doesn't really do much for agencies opinions of us. I don't have the time or energy to make a long drawn out court case that may or may not win the right to prevent encrypted communications. Additionally, I think the state scanner laws would be struck down.

If someone wishes to take these things to court, I would be willing to donate $ to the cause.

If you don't want to do that, stop wasting people's time here, with childish suggestions to prevent encryption. These foolish suggestions just make the very agencies we are trying to influence just laugh at us.

Thanks,

Ray

 

[Bolt21]

Ray,

I'm not out to change any "agencies" opinion on this. I want to change state law, possibly expanding off of the Sunshine Law. I asked for ideas from members, which includes YOU, on how to go about getting this so-called "mission impossible" rolling. So far, you've called this effort childish, foolish and wasteful, yet you chose to read this thread and offered to donate $. Thank you for your name calling, but if that's all you care to contribute to the arena of ideas, please don't waste any more of MY time by making me read and respond to your pessimistic posts.

Thanks,

Bolt

 

[kayleesdad]

After hearing some incredulous comms regarding cell phone feeds on quasi-sensitive channels, I figured some level of encryption was on the way here in pinellas when p25 comes along. One prior comm indicated a belief that getting an encrypted radio was as easy as going to radio shop at lunch break - don't know anything about that, but if its that easy...

I was wondering if the the cell phone apps providers or their app partnes pay the people providing the live feeds. I know if I were exercising my first amendment rights to broadcast a live feed and people were using the feed on a cell phone i would want to be paid some righteous dolores for my most excellent feed.

If the feed providers get paid for the feed, how much? Not that we could collect enough money to pay them not to provide live feeds because as soon as one was paid off another and yet another live feeder would pop up looking for money, too.

I did like the idea of a statute banning live internet feeds, though. It may be too broad to pass challenge when the state has an easy and possibly cheap answer in the way of encryption.

dunno. but i will be limiting my investment in scanning to what it is now, thats for sure.

So does anyone know if the live feeders are being fed money?

 

[tampabaynews]

For what it's worth,

I remember reading a thread a year back about an agency in California having a fit about a feed and they ended up shutting it down. So to the user who said it is their first amendment right to broadcast a feed, you have got to be joking. Several bars here got in trouble because they showed Bucs games from internet feeds when they were blacked out from TV in this market. If you cannot rebroadcast a TV program I am sure it is not permitted to rebroadcast radio transmissions. Whether agencies want to pursue that with encryption or coming after the feed provider, that's your guess.

Yes, criminals do use scanners in the commission of crimes, but I think the simplicity of downloading a scanner app makes feeds the bigger issue here. You have to see that feeds make radio transmissions available to a much broader and diverse audience.

I work with LEO's every day, some I know on a personal basis... really, I do. Several whom I've discussed this issue with expressed the fear of feeds on smart phones, not scanners. They did not know that listeners can't control a feed which makes listening to a particular talk group difficult.

Also, I went to a meeting where local LEO PIO's and the media discussed current issues. I brought up encryption and one PIO got rather patriotic and said "we have to protect ourselves from the terrorists."

Somebody mentioned that encryption fears are almost always exaggerated perceptions of scanning in general. If we could get rid of that source of that fear...

I know for a fact there are feeds out there who broadcast sensitive talk groups when they're not supposed to. I've heard direct references to LEO's being pissed about talk groups on the Pinellas feed.

 

[dugan]

For what it's worth,


I work with LEO's every day, some I know on a personal basis... really, I do. Several whom I've discussed this issue with expressed the fear of feeds on smart phones, not scanners. They did not know that listeners can't control a feed which makes listening to a particular talk group difficult.

While it is impossible to listen to a particular talk group on a smart phone, that isn't as big a deal in small and medium sized towns. A town near my location has a feed and you can hear just about everything that is going on at any given time. It is a University town so you can bet there are an atypical number of listeners considering the size of the town. This town is in Southern Ontario and is usually in the top ten feeds on RR. What does that tell you?

 

[tampabaynews]

While it is impossible to listen to a particular talk group on a smart phone, that isn't as big a deal in small and medium sized towns. A town near my location has a feed and you can hear just about everything that is going on at any given time. It is a University town so you can bet there are an atypical number of listeners considering the size of the town. This town is in Southern Ontario and is usually in the top ten feeds on RR. What does that tell you?

That tells me that if there were no feeds available for college frats to listen to during their drunk fests, they wouldn't be able to clean up before the police came to break it up.

Not to anyone in particular...

As Bolt21 suggested... this thread is meant to Floridians. If you live in another state, consider creating your own thread because all of our states are different, legally and culturally. This thread has good intentions to collaborate arguments against encryption and offer possible ways to propose changes and additions to Florida law. If you have no intention on providing constructive comments then why the heck are you wasting your time and our time? If you want lay back, grab some popcorn, and watch your hobby slowly go down the chute then that's your problem. Some of us believe something should be done and quite possibly can be done if we band a group intelligent, passionate scannists together.

 

[kayleesdad]

Copyrighted material, I like that idea, too. The transmissions and its content are the work product of the state or local government and cannot be rebroadcast via internet stream or cell phone without the appropriate license agreement and royalty fee being paid. Not a bad idea. Local governments need money. If they don't pay the fee, shut 'em down.

 

[News_Media_News]

I know for a fact from the LE i talk to the feeds are the biggest reason why LEA`s are going to encryption. Just the other night for example i was listening to the Pinellas feeds for ****s and giggles. Damn if the feed didn't have the UC talk groups on the feed. I heard 2 UC officers saying, "hey i wonder if this channel is on the feed" So they fired up the feed and guess what, with a little delay it was. Their reply is that`s BS i cant wait until our P25 encrypted systems is up and operating. THANKS FEED PROVIDERS AND RR.

 

[FLA2760]

Some of you guys crack me up. I can pretty much tell you that:

1. No FSS will ever be passed that will require local LE to be in the clear for routine operations.
2. The Feds will not hold back grant $ if a system is encrypted. Actually a fully encrypted system would look more favorably to them in the name of Homeland Security as long as it is standards based.
3. Not all agencies "own systems", like SLERS for instance. Those agencies are encrypted by default because the "owner" of the system requires if of all of its subscribers.
4. In the day of cheap encryption ($10.00 ADP) you will begin to see more and more agencies going that route. I have un-named agencies on my system that have shown an interest to do just this when I light up P25.

In short, they do not care about the scanning public that is a very small part of the population. If something happens and you want to know what was said, do a public record request on the recording of the specfic incident on that day and time. Those are typically held for 1 year like 911 calls.

Never say never, our tax dollars are behind these grants.

 

[News_Media_News]

Everybody that has a feed going in our area, i ask you to responsible and take it off line. If you dont eventually that`s whats going to happen anyways, just think on top of that your scanners will be paper weights. Next FD and others will go encrypted following the police.

 

[FLA2760]

Never say never, stranger things have happened.

 

[FLA2760]

Never say never, stranger things have happened.

 

[N4DES]

Never say never, our tax dollars are behind these grants.

No bearing on it whatsoever....

 

[zerg901]

To me, the UK info clearly shows that encryption does not make the police nor the society any safer. For USA police to be heartily endorsing encryption is folly. Peter Sz

(You can Google for UK Police Honour Roll for more details)

 

[Bolt21]

I received the following message titled "Childish" via PM. Thanks, Ray!

Look, you're not going change any agencies period. If you want to stop whining and go to court I will send some money for your project, which far more than the rest of these clowns here will do.

I read your post because someone posted the url in a yahoo group.

The fact that a 37 year old man has nothing better to do than make 655 posts to this group is sad enough.

Maybe you're challenged and can't do much else, in that case I apologize. If that is not case you should apologize to us and get a life. Seriously, these are little squawk boxes that receive radio signals, toys really. Do I enjoy my toy? yes of course, but I don't need to be posting critique and comment on it.

You guys here, scare me taking this much too seriously. We have so many problems in the country and you're worried about a toy.

I hope I'm around long enough when everything is encrypted and I can laugh at you yoyos. I laughing so hard now I can hardly type, maybe you are having fun with us.

Please, just enjoy scanner, maybe go out with some girls, have a drink or two and forget this nonsense, it's not worth it.

Thanks, for the laugh.

Ray

 

[tampabaynews]

"Hold my weave!!!!!

Double post.

 

[tampabaynews]

"Hold my weave!!!!!"

Ray,

What you have failed to realize is that although a scanner may be an expensive toy for you, it's a critical business tool for people like a me. We all have our own reasons for being passionate about our hobby. If you were open minded you would have figured that one out.

No body here is whining, we are offering suggestions to get the ball rolling on trying to end encryption. If you don't care about what we're discussing, then don't post here and move on. It's really that simple.

You claim people who post comments regarding radios need to get a life. Well, according to your failed logic, you need to get a life as well because you have been on this forum for six years and you are a poster just like the rest of us.

You even offer money to help us in our cause but don't want us discussing it? That doesn't make an ounce of sense Ray.

What really got me was the "challenged" comment. I have little brother who is mentally challenged and is obsessive on certain hobbies. That's not something you say, anywhere. Even on the internet where you can't get socked in the mouth.

You have no room to talk about us being "childish" when you don't have the nads' to post that message publicly for everyone to see. Thanks Bolt21.

Unreal...

 

[FLA2760]

No bearing on it whatsoever....

Oh wise oracle tell us then what is relevant.

 

[FLA2760]

I received the following message titled "Childish" via PM. Thanks, Ray!

Look, you're not going change any agencies period. If you want to stop whining and go to court I will send some money for your project, which far more than the rest of these clowns here will do.

I read your post because someone posted the url in a yahoo group.

The fact that a 37 year old man has nothing better to do than make 655 posts to this group is sad enough.

Maybe you're challenged and can't do much else, in that case I apologize. If that is not case you should apologize to us and get a life. Seriously, these are little squawk boxes that receive radio signals, toys really. Do I enjoy my toy? yes of course, but I don't need to be posting critique and comment on it.

You guys here, scare me taking this much too seriously. We have so many problems in the country and you're worried about a toy.

I hope I'm around long enough when everything is encrypted and I can laugh at you yoyos. I laughing so hard now I can hardly type, maybe you are having fun with us.

Please, just enjoy scanner, maybe go out with some girls, have a drink or two and forget this nonsense, it's not worth it.

Thanks, for the laugh.

Ray

Bolt this is a good thread. Like I said before there are a lot of condescending a--holes on this board.

 

[Bolt21]

What's sad is that for the amount of replies and views that this thread has received, a very small percentage of the replies have actually been constructive. I thought most people here were intelligent enough to see the forest, but I guess they can't for the trees. They can't realize that LE feeds help contribute to encryption, and encryption will ultimately lead to a police state. For me, that's really what encryption boils down to - a police state. And yes, I consider the country leaning in that direction at the present time. It has nothing to do with "I think group X people deserve to listen in, and group Y doesn't."

Don't get me wrong, I think feeds are neat. I like the idea of listening to LE from different areas of the country. It's my belief however, that they will spell the demise of our hobby and thus the ability to know what's happening in our own communities.

I'm through begging for ideas. I asked for members to use their minds about how to stop encryption. What I got in return was closed-minded name-calling by folks practically wishing for encryption and people freaking out at the idea of losing feeds. Shame on me for asking people to think outside the realms of their own comfort zone.