Fire EOC response

[mundell22]

Ok so I should not blame FD it is just when a Tone goes out and it is the wrong town being dispatched, the FD should advise Dispatch that it is the wrong FD. I beleive by waiting 10 min it may or may not have save her life, but she would of had support much sooner. I beleive 2 people at fault the dispatch and the FD for waiting to notify dispatch wrong FD. **** I was unable to get to a pc shortly after post that is why I did not respond.


I think you guys have a couragious job and i respect all Emergency personal. I am not bashing, at the time i wrote thAt I was pretty upset at the situation.

 

[mundell22]

The victim Dies tToday

The victim was pronounced Dead early Wednasday.

I know that her being stabbed and burned is what cause it but to wonder if that 30 min wait between tone out till Mediflight showed up would have saved her life?

So we have 10 min from original tone to be advised wrong town plus 20 min for Mediflight to arrive.

The call to mediflight could have been shortened to 20 min total not 30 Maybe that could have saved her ?????????

 

[fireant]

I doubt due to the nature of the injuries that her death could have been avoided. When you are burned that bad there is a slim chance of survival in most cases. Sad that someone would burn another person now lets just hope they catch the indivdual or indivduals responsible for this.

My thoughts and prayers are with her family.

fireant

 

[mundell22]

I agree It is sad. It looks like she ran with a bad crowd and had a tough life

 

[SABRE46]

Ok so I should not blame FD it is just when a Tone goes out and it is the wrong town being dispatched, the FD should advise Dispatch that it is the wrong FD. I beleive by waiting 10 min it may or may not have save her life, but she would of had support much sooner. I beleive 2 people at fault the dispatch and the FD for waiting to notify dispatch wrong FD. **** I was unable to get to a pc shortly after post that is why I did not respond.


I think you guys have a couragious job and i respect all Emergency personal. I am not bashing, at the time i wrote thAt I was pretty upset at the situation.

If thats how you think it all happened, then I will let you run with it. I will reiterate that there is more that happens when you have boots on the ground than what you hear on the radio. Also alot more than what you see on TV. (BTW our news stations here are horrible at covering anything like this.) Another bit of info, Midwest City Ambulance was on scene before we were (which is about normal at night since we come from home and they are at station 1.) and they are the ones that started mediflight. Our protocols are the same as MWC and if they are on scene, then it is their call whether to fly them out or not.

 

[mundell22]

My only issue was the Delay from recognizing the call. If FD would have advised dispatch it was a Harrah call soon after the no issue but to wait 10 min before after toned out is another thing.
To have dispatch tell you to step up the call after you advise it is a Haraah call was my concern.

I have heard many calls where the tone out is set then FD will come online seconds later advising wrong city. That is fine but to wait when someones life is in the balance is not ok. I am not blaming you I just think some extra Training should be given to the company that delayed the call.

No disrespect for any firefighters at all

 

[SABRE46]

Ok one more time...We were on scene while the officer was telling county that it was harrahs call. The patient was being worked during that time....

 

[2112]

... there is more that happens when you have boots on the ground than what you hear on the radio.

The same goes for the dispatch side. There could have been technical difficulties that prevented Harrah from being toned out. Or maybe there wasn't a response from Harrah if they were toned out first. Or maybe once Harrah was toned out, they advised the dispatcher over the phone to tone out Choctaw instead. Or maybe a radio problem prevented proper communication between the dispatcher and the responding Choctaw unit.

It is illegal in Oklahoma for an FD to run on a call that's not in their area without a request from the FD that covers that area unless there's an automatic aid agreement in place. I'm not knowledgeable about such agreements in eastern Oklahoma Co. Regardless, as Sentrymech said, you can't condemn any involved without reviewing all the relevant information.

A person on fire is one of the highest-priority calls that any dispatch center will handle, because there is little time available to make a save. Sadly, as fireant said, there is little chance that any unnecessary delay that occurred in FD response would have made a difference in this case, b/c MWCA was already on-scene and it was after-hours for daily FD staffing. During those periods, it can take a while for any such FD to get there. Would it be better with full-time staffing? Sure it would, but that costs money.

The bottom line is that it's tough enough to Monday-morning quarterback these things even if you are directly involved. It's next-to-impossible to do so when you only have a small part of the whole picture to go on. Listening to the radio traffic only provides a small part of the picture.

Hope this helps straighten things out... :-D

PS. Sentrymech: I'm sorry y'all had to go thru a call like that... but I'm thankful that you do whatcha do. :-D

 

[SABRE46]

FYI we have mutual aid agreements with everyone in the county + forestry division. But we still dont run unless dispatched. Perfect example of this is Harrah is on a grass fire with not a lot of people in town...they tell county to start us for mutual aid. County either does not hear them or is not paying attention. Myself and another firefighter turn out and grab a brush truck...waiting for the tone. Nothing...Harrah ended up calling county 3 times for mutual aid until they finally toned us out. We did not leave until then because of the fact that we were not toned by dispatch. That being said...When grass fire season gets started again, We will start the WAR days again which means if someone gets a grass fire and the weather conditions are right, 3 departments will start to one towns grass fire. The groups in EOC are Harrah, Newalla and Choctaw. Spencer, Nicoma Park and Forrest Park. and Jones Luther and Hickory hills. So for instance if harrah catches a grass fire, Choctaw and Newalla will be toned at the same time. Works the same way for all three groups.

 

[PolarBear25]

The victim was pronounced Dead early Wednasday.

I know that her being stabbed and burned is what cause it but to wonder if that 30 min wait between tone out till Mediflight showed up would have saved her life?

So we have 10 min from original tone to be advised wrong town plus 20 min for Mediflight to arrive.

The call to mediflight could have been shortened to 20 min total not 30 Maybe that could have saved her ?????????

I agree It is sad. It looks like she ran with a bad crowd and had a tough life

Yep it is real sad may god have mercy on her sole

If thats how you think it all happened, then I will let you run with it. I will reiterate that there is more that happens when you have boots on the ground than what you hear on the radio. Also alot more than what you see on TV. (BTW our news stations here are horrible at covering anything like this.) Another bit of info, Midwest City Ambulance was on scene before we were (which is about normal at night since we come from home and they are at station 1.) and they are the ones that started mediflight. Our protocols are the same as MWC and if they are on scene, then it is their call whether to fly them out or not.

Yep, Midwest City EMS, Choctaw's night rescue LOL. And with that said MWC EMS, would have put Mediflight
on stand by in route, and then launched them after they got on scene. Mediflight would then take 10 mins to get there.

FYI we have mutual aid agreements with everyone in the county + forestry division. But we still dont run unless dispatched. Perfect example of this is Harrah is on a grass fire with not a lot of people in town...they tell county to start us for mutual aid. County either does not hear them or is not paying attention. Myself and another firefighter turn out and grab a brush truck...waiting for the tone. Nothing...Harrah ended up calling county 3 times for mutual aid until they finally toned us out. We did not leave until then because of the fact that we were not toned by dispatch. That being said...When grass fire season gets started again, We will start the WAR days again which means if someone gets a grass fire and the weather conditions are right, 3 departments will start to one towns grass fire. The groups in EOC are Harrah, Newalla and Choctaw. Spencer, Nicoma Park and Forrest Park. and Jones Luther and Hickory hills. So for instance if harrah catches a grass fire, Choctaw and Newalla will be toned at the same time. Works the same way for all three groups.

Yep I have heard that and also heard county to choctaw second tone out, and 10-22 the call purr midwest city ambulance too and always at night,

Also tone out and no audio and that is county's failure as well.

So the short of it is county, and maybe the fire guys are to blame, but working a burnt person call is never any fun.

Extra training for the county dispatchers I say.

 

[PolarBear25]

Arrest made in burning, beating of woman

http://www.kokh.com/newsroom/ok/topstory/topstory1.shtml

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- Oklahoma City police have arrested a suspect and are looking for a second in the burning death of an Oklahoma City woman.
Captain Steve McCool says investigators developed information that led them to a home in northeast Oklahoma City where they arrested 25-year-old Quintez Thomas.
Thomas is being held on a first-degree murder complaint and other charges in the death of 37-year-old Jessica Brackett.
Brackett was found early yesterday morning walking along a road in Choctaw with burns and trauma to her body.
She died this morning at an Oklahoma City hospital.
McCool says Brackett's boyfriend reported her as kidnapped late Monday and told officers two men came to his home and forced her into their car.
McCool says police are still looking for the second suspect.
(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

 

[2112]

... Perfect example of this is Harrah is on a grass fire with not a lot of people in town...they tell county to start us for mutual aid. County either does not hear them or is not paying attention. Myself and another firefighter turn out and grab a brush truck...waiting for the tone. Nothing...Harrah ended up calling county 3 times for mutual aid until they finally toned us out.

Yep I have heard that and also heard county to choctaw second tone out, and 10-22 the call purr midwest city ambulance too and always at night,

Also tone out and no audio and that is county's failure as well.

So the short of it is county, and maybe the fire guys are to blame, but working a burnt person call is never any fun.

Extra training for the county dispatchers I say.

This extra toning and/or dispatch not hearing field responders could be radio problems, too. If this is an ongoing problem on the County side and they're doing nothing to fix their end of it, then it's probably time for the subscribers to review their contracts. Same as if it's a dispatcher problem and they don't do anything about it.

 

[SABRE46]

This is last post I will make on this subject. Tired of explaining simple facts to people that don't get it. It would not have mattered in this woman's case how long mediflight took to get there. Injuries were bad enough that I am surprised she lasted as long as she did. When your whole body is a 3rd degree burn, odds are not in your favor. The stab wounds were yet another complication. I will not go into great detail here but you can only do so much in the field, the ambulance, and even in the hospital.

Here is another fun fact for you...If the woman hadn't been relatively stable, Mediflight wouldn't have taken her anyway. The helicopter that we had came from Seminole not from Childrens.

And to Polar Bear: Midwest will disregard any fire department on minor calls where extra help is not needed. As for going to a second tone...you haven't heard that from us in a long time.

 

[PolarBear25]

This is last post I will make on this subject. Tired of explaining simple facts to people that don't get it. It would not have mattered in this woman's case how long mediflight took to get there. Injuries were bad enough that I am surprised she lasted as long as she did. When your whole body is a 3rd degree burn, odds are not in your favor. The stab wounds were yet another complication. I will not go into great detail here but you can only do so much in the field, the ambulance, and even in the hospital.

Here is another fun fact for you...If the woman hadn't been relatively stable, Mediflight wouldn't have taken her anyway. The helicopter that we had came from Seminole not from Childrens.

And to Polar Bear: Midwest will disregard any fire department on minor calls where extra help is not needed. As for going to a second tone...you haven't heard that from us in a long time.

True, but sentrymechanic it does happen, And to Luther as well, And I just thought of something if Choctaw never cleared the call then harrah would have been toned out.

 

[SABRE46]

(shaking head in amusement)

 

[random]

Also tone out and no audio and that is county's failure as well.

So the short of it is county, and maybe the fire guys are to blame, but working a burnt person call is never any fun.

Extra training for the county dispatchers I say.

Here's a new picture for your avatar :lol:

 

[mundell22]

NO hard feeleings

Hey I have the Most respect for all of you. I am done Talking about this.

I did not mean to make anyone here upset just wanted to explain what happened and maybe some additional training can come from it.

I my self in IT know we are not perfect and we also will need training to better ourselves.

Sentry No hard feeling man

 

[eharlow]

Illegal

Is it REALLY illegal for another FD to respond inside someone else's area without request? If you guys know this to be fact, please send me the information on it because I've never seen a state statute on this.

 

[rdale]

Won't speak for Oklahoma laws - but you are not covered by your FF insurance if you respond out of area without being requested.

 

[2112]

Is it REALLY illegal for another FD to respond inside someone else's area without request? If you guys know this to be fact, please send me the information on it because I've never seen a state statute on this.

Available at www.oscn.net:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?id=447212&hits=

This is part of the Oklahoma Intrastate Mutual Aid Compact, O.S. § 63.29A, Section 695.6:

"Whenever any person holds a license, certificate, or other permit issued by any jurisdiction party evidencing the meeting of qualifications for professional, mechanical, or other skills, and when such assistance is requested by the receiving jurisdiction, such person shall be deemed licensed, certified, or permitted by the jurisdiction requesting assistance to render aid involving such skill to meet a declared emergency or disaster, subject to such limitations and conditions as the requesting jurisdiction may prescribe by executive order or otherwise."

As far as proper requests are concerned, check out O.S. § 63.29A, Section 695.4.B:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?id=447209&hits=

"The authorized representative of a jurisdiction may request assistance of another jurisdiction by contacting the authorized representative of that jurisdiction. The provisions of the Oklahoma Intrastate Mutual Aid Compact shall apply only to requests for assistance made by and to authorized representatives."

So as you can see, this goes beyond FD's to include all services. :-D