mkewman
Member
I once followed a Medic Ambulance for like 45 minutes with my signal stalker on, trying to capture a frequency... I never got one but I'm glad we're getting some info on it now!
First Responder
- Thread starter Sac916
- Start date
- Status
And I thought I was bad! 
Glad I could help!
Glad I could help!
mkewman
Member
oh i'm baaaaaaaad. i'm full blown addicted to scanning.
selgaran said:
Listening to those now...it's part of an LTR system. Don't know which one though.
Probably this one http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3626
Last edited:
Ok darkstar187,
Find a free memory location in a new bank (that isn't already being used for some type of trunking) and store the frequencies in by pressing [PGM] then typing in the frequency, and pressing [ENT]. If KMA371 is right, put 452.0625 in memory slot number 06 of whichever free bank you choose to use. Once you're done, set that frequency to "LT" mode (for LTR) by pressing [MODE] until you see LT in the top left corner after the bank and memory "channel" location number. Ex: "M206LT" in the top left corner, would mean you're in Manual mode, in bank 2, slot 06, and LTR mode.
If you do this in a free bank you can also set up the whole bank to LTR trunking mode - so that once you get the other frequencies figured out and programmed, you can follow the conversation of First Responder's talkgroup without hearing everyone else. To do this, go to the correct bank that your LTR freq is in, and press [PGM] -> [TRUNK]. It should say "Trunking Mode Not Selected, Press Mode." Press [MODE] until LTR appears. Your bank is now set up for LTR trunking and you can save talkgroup IDs into the memory scan list from this screen.
For now, we're just trying to confirm First Responder's talkgroup ID number, and the Repeater Channel Number of the frequency 452.0625 MHz. To do this, go back to that frequency that you stored and stay on it in Manual mode. Watch the bottom of the screen, it should say "LTR: None" if no one is talking. When someone talks, a talkgroup ID followed by the Repeater number will appear on that line. The talkgroup ID follows this format; A-HH-GGG, where A is the area bit number (1 or 0), HH is the home repeater number for that talkgroup (01 to 20) and GGG is the group number (from 001 to I believe 255? Which is usually the morse code ID for the system). The repeater channel number will look like R, followed by two numbers. The repeater channel number is important and you need to know it, because in order for the LTR system to trunk track properly, you need to store that frequency in the same memory slot number as the repeater number.
So to sum all this up, it's sounding like when you hear First Responder on 452.0625 Mhz, on the bottom of your screen you'll see:
"LTR: 0-06-078 R06"
That means the talkgroup is 0-06-078, and the repeater channel number is 06 -> and that in turn means you should store that frequency into memory slot 06, so that the top left part of your screen will look like "M X06 LT", with X replaced by the number of the bank you chose to store it in.
You can figure out an entire LTR system this way, by doing a limit search to find familiar sounding frequencies that could be associated with the system, storing them, putting them in LTR mode, determining the talkgroup and repeater number (is the talkgroup the same as one you see on other freqs on the system?), moving the frequency to the correct memory channel for the repeater number in that bank so it will track properly... and then repeating the process. LTR standard can be a pain because you don't honestly know how many frequencies may be part of the system, you just sort of try and figure out if you're missing pieces of the conversation you're listening to, and if you suspect you are, you keep searching the bands until you finally find the mystery missing frequency, add it to the system, and then try and evaluate if you are still missing parts of the conversation. Sometimes you won't be able to tell unless the system is busy enough to bump talkgroups to extra free channels that are otherwise never used. It's honestly a terrible way to figure something out, though the mystery aspect keeps the job alluring. I prefer the computer program LTRDump though (but you need to build a special circuit board called a low-pass filtered data slicer to make it work), because you can actually verify your data and see the FREE and GOTO channel numbers on the screen that are being transmitted by the system to the radios.
Hopefully, the system in the database is already correct - and all that needed to be done was to add that talkgroup to it (which was the easy part to find!). Still, it couldn't hurt to try the above method to verify all the frequencies (it can be easy to mix two seperate LTR systems into one if they both use the area bit 0, unless you can really confirm seeing the same talkgroup and audio on multiple frequencies).
So what does all this actually do for you???
Well, if the system is set up correctly to trunk track LTR Standard, then you can either scan the bank the system is in while scanning other banks as well and only hear the talkgroup you want in that bank, or set the scanner up for ID Hold Mode on that talkgroup, so you can constantly monitor just their radio channel. To be able to hear them while scanning (but no one else on the system), only add their talkgroup (once you confirm what it is and tell us!) to your talkgroup ID memory by either pressing [TRUNK] while the ID appears (it should say "Talkgroup ID Saved") or by manually keying it into memory by pressing [PGM]->[TRUNK], typing in the talkgroup (and alpha tagging it so you know who it is), and then putting your scanner into "CLOSED" mode by first putting it in SCAN and then pressing [FUNC]->[.] (period). It will ignore all talkgroup IDs during scan except the one stored in memory. To HOLD the scanner on their talkgroup ID (and not scan anything else), press [PGM]->[TRUNK], use the arrow keys to scroll to their talkgroup ID number (it must be stored in memory), then press [FUNC]->[TRUNK]. It should display **ID Hold Mode** and your talkgroup ID or alpha tag below it.
Well, good luck with all of that lol. I hope that was all somewhat helpful, and that you're able to confirm the talkgroup ID for First Responder, and get them correctly set up in your scanner for your listening enjoyment.
If only I lived anywhere near Sacramento... Then I could be REALLY helpful!
Inigo
Find a free memory location in a new bank (that isn't already being used for some type of trunking) and store the frequencies in by pressing [PGM] then typing in the frequency, and pressing [ENT]. If KMA371 is right, put 452.0625 in memory slot number 06 of whichever free bank you choose to use. Once you're done, set that frequency to "LT" mode (for LTR) by pressing [MODE] until you see LT in the top left corner after the bank and memory "channel" location number. Ex: "M206LT" in the top left corner, would mean you're in Manual mode, in bank 2, slot 06, and LTR mode.
If you do this in a free bank you can also set up the whole bank to LTR trunking mode - so that once you get the other frequencies figured out and programmed, you can follow the conversation of First Responder's talkgroup without hearing everyone else. To do this, go to the correct bank that your LTR freq is in, and press [PGM] -> [TRUNK]. It should say "Trunking Mode Not Selected, Press Mode." Press [MODE] until LTR appears. Your bank is now set up for LTR trunking and you can save talkgroup IDs into the memory scan list from this screen.
For now, we're just trying to confirm First Responder's talkgroup ID number, and the Repeater Channel Number of the frequency 452.0625 MHz. To do this, go back to that frequency that you stored and stay on it in Manual mode. Watch the bottom of the screen, it should say "LTR: None" if no one is talking. When someone talks, a talkgroup ID followed by the Repeater number will appear on that line. The talkgroup ID follows this format; A-HH-GGG, where A is the area bit number (1 or 0), HH is the home repeater number for that talkgroup (01 to 20) and GGG is the group number (from 001 to I believe 255? Which is usually the morse code ID for the system). The repeater channel number will look like R, followed by two numbers. The repeater channel number is important and you need to know it, because in order for the LTR system to trunk track properly, you need to store that frequency in the same memory slot number as the repeater number.
So to sum all this up, it's sounding like when you hear First Responder on 452.0625 Mhz, on the bottom of your screen you'll see:
"LTR: 0-06-078 R06"
That means the talkgroup is 0-06-078, and the repeater channel number is 06 -> and that in turn means you should store that frequency into memory slot 06, so that the top left part of your screen will look like "M X06 LT", with X replaced by the number of the bank you chose to store it in.
You can figure out an entire LTR system this way, by doing a limit search to find familiar sounding frequencies that could be associated with the system, storing them, putting them in LTR mode, determining the talkgroup and repeater number (is the talkgroup the same as one you see on other freqs on the system?), moving the frequency to the correct memory channel for the repeater number in that bank so it will track properly... and then repeating the process. LTR standard can be a pain because you don't honestly know how many frequencies may be part of the system, you just sort of try and figure out if you're missing pieces of the conversation you're listening to, and if you suspect you are, you keep searching the bands until you finally find the mystery missing frequency, add it to the system, and then try and evaluate if you are still missing parts of the conversation. Sometimes you won't be able to tell unless the system is busy enough to bump talkgroups to extra free channels that are otherwise never used. It's honestly a terrible way to figure something out, though the mystery aspect keeps the job alluring. I prefer the computer program LTRDump though (but you need to build a special circuit board called a low-pass filtered data slicer to make it work), because you can actually verify your data and see the FREE and GOTO channel numbers on the screen that are being transmitted by the system to the radios.
Hopefully, the system in the database is already correct - and all that needed to be done was to add that talkgroup to it (which was the easy part to find!). Still, it couldn't hurt to try the above method to verify all the frequencies (it can be easy to mix two seperate LTR systems into one if they both use the area bit 0, unless you can really confirm seeing the same talkgroup and audio on multiple frequencies).
So what does all this actually do for you???
Well, if the system is set up correctly to trunk track LTR Standard, then you can either scan the bank the system is in while scanning other banks as well and only hear the talkgroup you want in that bank, or set the scanner up for ID Hold Mode on that talkgroup, so you can constantly monitor just their radio channel. To be able to hear them while scanning (but no one else on the system), only add their talkgroup (once you confirm what it is and tell us!) to your talkgroup ID memory by either pressing [TRUNK] while the ID appears (it should say "Talkgroup ID Saved") or by manually keying it into memory by pressing [PGM]->[TRUNK], typing in the talkgroup (and alpha tagging it so you know who it is), and then putting your scanner into "CLOSED" mode by first putting it in SCAN and then pressing [FUNC]->[.] (period). It will ignore all talkgroup IDs during scan except the one stored in memory. To HOLD the scanner on their talkgroup ID (and not scan anything else), press [PGM]->[TRUNK], use the arrow keys to scroll to their talkgroup ID number (it must be stored in memory), then press [FUNC]->[TRUNK]. It should display **ID Hold Mode** and your talkgroup ID or alpha tag below it.
Well, good luck with all of that lol. I hope that was all somewhat helpful, and that you're able to confirm the talkgroup ID for First Responder, and get them correctly set up in your scanner for your listening enjoyment.
If only I lived anywhere near Sacramento... Then I could be REALLY helpful!
Inigo
Inigo...Tks for all the useful information. Incidently, is this Inigo of the ZOA world too? If so, this is Nick W. We met at the get together a few years back and have chatted a time or too going back a few years. Didn't know you dabbled in public safety as well. I'll try plugging in the Medic info into the station 996 and see if it pans out. Been a few years since I worked at Medic, but I'm sure the information is still the good. Tks again.
Plugged the Mt. Diablo LTR in for Medic into the 996 and was successful. Tks again Inigo. Medic Vallejo used to and I believe still does dispatch for Sacramento as well, so if guys are so inclined to listen to that as well, it should be on the same LTR group. Next step...First Responder for the initial thread question.
It absolutely is Nick, great talking to you again!
darkstar187
Member
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- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
Was that just added to the database?kma371 said:
darkstar187
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
Here is a little more info from working.
- The different selections I could make on the radio was; scan, Pine, Vaca, DT Sac, Sugar
- Our radio system is owned by Crystal Communication.
- I found another frequency, 457.0625
- The different selections I could make on the radio was; scan, Pine, Vaca, DT Sac, Sugar
- Our radio system is owned by Crystal Communication.
- I found another frequency, 457.0625
darkstar187
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
WOW! Thats a lot of info. LOL I will try to do this next time I work.inigo88 said:Ok darkstar187,
Find a free memory location in a new bank (that isn't already being used for some type of trunking) and store the frequencies in by pressing [PGM] then typing in the frequency, and pressing [ENT]. If KMA371 is right, put 452.0625 in memory slot number 06 of whichever free bank you choose to use. Once you're done, set that frequency to "LT" mode (for LTR) by pressing [MODE] until you see LT in the top left corner after the bank and memory "channel" location number. Ex: "M206LT" in the top left corner, would mean you're in Manual mode, in bank 2, slot 06, and LTR mode.
If you do this in a free bank you can also set up the whole bank to LTR trunking mode - so that once you get the other frequencies figured out and programmed, you can follow the conversation of First Responder's talkgroup without hearing everyone else. To do this, go to the correct bank that your LTR freq is in, and press [PGM] -> [TRUNK]. It should say "Trunking Mode Not Selected, Press Mode." Press [MODE] until LTR appears. Your bank is now set up for LTR trunking and you can save talkgroup IDs into the memory scan list from this screen.
For now, we're just trying to confirm First Responder's talkgroup ID number, and the Repeater Channel Number of the frequency 452.0625 MHz. To do this, go back to that frequency that you stored and stay on it in Manual mode. Watch the bottom of the screen, it should say "LTR: None" if no one is talking. When someone talks, a talkgroup ID followed by the Repeater number will appear on that line. The talkgroup ID follows this format; A-HH-GGG, where A is the area bit number (1 or 0), HH is the home repeater number for that talkgroup (01 to 20) and GGG is the group number (from 001 to I believe 255? Which is usually the morse code ID for the system). The repeater channel number will look like R, followed by two numbers. The repeater channel number is important and you need to know it, because in order for the LTR system to trunk track properly, you need to store that frequency in the same memory slot number as the repeater number.
So to sum all this up, it's sounding like when you hear First Responder on 452.0625 Mhz, on the bottom of your screen you'll see:
"LTR: 0-06-078 R06"
That means the talkgroup is 0-06-078, and the repeater channel number is 06 -> and that in turn means you should store that frequency into memory slot 06, so that the top left part of your screen will look like "M X06 LT", with X replaced by the number of the bank you chose to store it in.
You can figure out an entire LTR system this way, by doing a limit search to find familiar sounding frequencies that could be associated with the system, storing them, putting them in LTR mode, determining the talkgroup and repeater number (is the talkgroup the same as one you see on other freqs on the system?), moving the frequency to the correct memory channel for the repeater number in that bank so it will track properly... and then repeating the process. LTR standard can be a pain because you don't honestly know how many frequencies may be part of the system, you just sort of try and figure out if you're missing pieces of the conversation you're listening to, and if you suspect you are, you keep searching the bands until you finally find the mystery missing frequency, add it to the system, and then try and evaluate if you are still missing parts of the conversation. Sometimes you won't be able to tell unless the system is busy enough to bump talkgroups to extra free channels that are otherwise never used. It's honestly a terrible way to figure something out, though the mystery aspect keeps the job alluring. I prefer the computer program LTRDump though (but you need to build a special circuit board called a low-pass filtered data slicer to make it work), because you can actually verify your data and see the FREE and GOTO channel numbers on the screen that are being transmitted by the system to the radios.
Hopefully, the system in the database is already correct - and all that needed to be done was to add that talkgroup to it (which was the easy part to find!). Still, it couldn't hurt to try the above method to verify all the frequencies (it can be easy to mix two seperate LTR systems into one if they both use the area bit 0, unless you can really confirm seeing the same talkgroup and audio on multiple frequencies).
So what does all this actually do for you???
Well, if the system is set up correctly to trunk track LTR Standard, then you can either scan the bank the system is in while scanning other banks as well and only hear the talkgroup you want in that bank, or set the scanner up for ID Hold Mode on that talkgroup, so you can constantly monitor just their radio channel. To be able to hear them while scanning (but no one else on the system), only add their talkgroup (once you confirm what it is and tell us!) to your talkgroup ID memory by either pressing [TRUNK] while the ID appears (it should say "Talkgroup ID Saved") or by manually keying it into memory by pressing [PGM]->[TRUNK], typing in the talkgroup (and alpha tagging it so you know who it is), and then putting your scanner into "CLOSED" mode by first putting it in SCAN and then pressing [FUNC]->[.] (period). It will ignore all talkgroup IDs during scan except the one stored in memory. To HOLD the scanner on their talkgroup ID (and not scan anything else), press [PGM]->[TRUNK], use the arrow keys to scroll to their talkgroup ID number (it must be stored in memory), then press [FUNC]->[TRUNK]. It should display **ID Hold Mode** and your talkgroup ID or alpha tag below it.
Well, good luck with all of that lol. I hope that was all somewhat helpful, and that you're able to confirm the talkgroup ID for First Responder, and get them correctly set up in your scanner for your listening enjoyment.
If only I lived anywhere near Sacramento... Then I could be REALLY helpful!
Inigo
Thanks!!!
Sac916
Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 1,402
Question:
Since FR is able to select various sites, couldn't it be utilizing multiple Crystal systems?
I would think these two FCC Callsigns could cover the FR.
WPPB889 WPPC823 and WPVL865
I say this because Sac Regional Radio System covers two FCC callsigns
WNYR751 and WNXW543
Also
You don't have to answer this, but where is FR Dispatch located?
10161 Croydon or 8611 Folsom Blvd ?
Since FR is able to select various sites, couldn't it be utilizing multiple Crystal systems?
I would think these two FCC Callsigns could cover the FR.
WPPB889 WPPC823 and WPVL865
I say this because Sac Regional Radio System covers two FCC callsigns
WNYR751 and WNXW543
Also
You don't have to answer this, but where is FR Dispatch located?
10161 Croydon or 8611 Folsom Blvd ?
darkstar187
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
antfreq said:
I am not sure about any of this, lol. Over my head. Are you asking the different ones were able to select (vaca, pine,...)? If so we only use Pine.
Dispatch is Croydon.
Hey Ant,
LTR Standard is a very primitive form of trunking. I practically think of it like a CTCSS tone that's smart enough to bump other users to a spare frequency if the original channel is in use (the ideas of the GOTO and FREE channel commands) - and since all the system control data takes place concurrently with active voice communications in the subaudable range, you don't get extra stuff like radio IDs, and talkgroup affiliations, and the availability to automatically roam to the closest site with the strongest signal like Sacramento's Motorola Smartzone system (though the Fisher Wireless TeamTalk LTR Passport system does support roaming to other sites - since it's a newer protocol).
From what I understand, commercial LTR standard operators can get around this limitation and offer access to multiple sites... by programming a completely SEPERATE LTR system into each channel on the user's radio. On each system, the talkgroup ID for that channel will be different. Also, there doesn't seem to be a way to simulcast or patch channels together (again, Passport can do this... I heard an EMS helicopter dispatch talkgroup in Tuscon Arizona through a frequency on the TeamTalk site 55 on Mt. Diablo in Contra Costa County. That woke me up!), so it's either all users on one channel (system) at a given time, or all on another. For instance, I heard that with Medic Ambulance's move to their backup talkgroup on the Big Rock system during the storms, everyone was instructed to move at once since the dispatchers don't monitor multiple systems. Again, using them as the example:
One channel on the radio may be alpha tagged "DIABLO"...
Be assigned Talkgroup ID: 0-18-109...
And be programmed with this system's channel map:
CH01 - 484.38750
CH03 - 483.96250
CH05 - 484.08750
CH10 - 490.93750
CH15 - 483.31250
CH18 - 490.06250 (HOME CHANNEL)
CH20 - 484.98750
The home channel is where the radio will always try to key up first, and the others are programmed in a sort of logical channel order, because if the home channel is busy, the LTR system won't say "Go to FREE channel 490.9375", it will say "Go to FREE channel 10." So the radio has to know what channel 10 is (as does your scanner - which is why you follow the correct channel order when programming it to trunk track LTR).
The next channel on the radio may be alpha tagged with "BIG ROCK"...
Be assigned the talkgroup ID: 0-08-110...
And be programmed with this completely different system's frequencies in logical channel order...
CH01 - 483.83750
CH08 - 484.13750 (HOME = Start here)
So it's a pretty low tech solution to having multiple site locations available. And you're probably going to get all users on one, or all users on another, but not both at once (since dispatch may be on the other one and not hear you). In the case of these two champion communications systems, I just found out that company was bought by Fleet Talk Management Services (and all the licenses are now to Fleet Talk Partners Ltd). I hit the jackpot and found their site which lists their northern california site locations and coverage maps here.
If you guys can confirm the talkgroup as belonging to the system already in the database, then the owner can be changed from Cumulous to Crystal Communications (not alot on them online, other than that they're located in San Leandro) and it can be moved to El Dorado County since we know it's located on Pine Hill.
Inigo
LTR Standard is a very primitive form of trunking. I practically think of it like a CTCSS tone that's smart enough to bump other users to a spare frequency if the original channel is in use (the ideas of the GOTO and FREE channel commands) - and since all the system control data takes place concurrently with active voice communications in the subaudable range, you don't get extra stuff like radio IDs, and talkgroup affiliations, and the availability to automatically roam to the closest site with the strongest signal like Sacramento's Motorola Smartzone system (though the Fisher Wireless TeamTalk LTR Passport system does support roaming to other sites - since it's a newer protocol).
From what I understand, commercial LTR standard operators can get around this limitation and offer access to multiple sites... by programming a completely SEPERATE LTR system into each channel on the user's radio. On each system, the talkgroup ID for that channel will be different. Also, there doesn't seem to be a way to simulcast or patch channels together (again, Passport can do this... I heard an EMS helicopter dispatch talkgroup in Tuscon Arizona through a frequency on the TeamTalk site 55 on Mt. Diablo in Contra Costa County. That woke me up!), so it's either all users on one channel (system) at a given time, or all on another. For instance, I heard that with Medic Ambulance's move to their backup talkgroup on the Big Rock system during the storms, everyone was instructed to move at once since the dispatchers don't monitor multiple systems. Again, using them as the example:
One channel on the radio may be alpha tagged "DIABLO"...
Be assigned Talkgroup ID: 0-18-109...
And be programmed with this system's channel map:
CH01 - 484.38750
CH03 - 483.96250
CH05 - 484.08750
CH10 - 490.93750
CH15 - 483.31250
CH18 - 490.06250 (HOME CHANNEL)
CH20 - 484.98750
The home channel is where the radio will always try to key up first, and the others are programmed in a sort of logical channel order, because if the home channel is busy, the LTR system won't say "Go to FREE channel 490.9375", it will say "Go to FREE channel 10." So the radio has to know what channel 10 is (as does your scanner - which is why you follow the correct channel order when programming it to trunk track LTR).
The next channel on the radio may be alpha tagged with "BIG ROCK"...
Be assigned the talkgroup ID: 0-08-110...
And be programmed with this completely different system's frequencies in logical channel order...
CH01 - 483.83750
CH08 - 484.13750 (HOME = Start here)
So it's a pretty low tech solution to having multiple site locations available. And you're probably going to get all users on one, or all users on another, but not both at once (since dispatch may be on the other one and not hear you). In the case of these two champion communications systems, I just found out that company was bought by Fleet Talk Management Services (and all the licenses are now to Fleet Talk Partners Ltd). I hit the jackpot and found their site which lists their northern california site locations and coverage maps here.
If you guys can confirm the talkgroup as belonging to the system already in the database, then the owner can be changed from Cumulous to Crystal Communications (not alot on them online, other than that they're located in San Leandro) and it can be moved to El Dorado County since we know it's located on Pine Hill.
Inigo
darkstar187
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- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
inigo88 said:
On one of the radios in one the ambulances it had a Crystal Communications sticker on it saying to call the number on it for service.
darkstar187
Member
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- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
Gotcha. I will be working tomorrow so I will check it out.kma371 said:
darkstar187
Member
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- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
kma371 said:
Ok I had those programmed into my pro97 and it does not work for First Responder Sac. You would hear some like...
"control, 208"
"214, at scene"
"221, responding"
"218, departing scene"
"211, control. 211 respond P6 to ...."
After being on a different ambulance today I got it on freq 343.0 and possibly 341.5. I picked up the 341.5 on the Vaca channel which dispatch did hear me on.
On this rigs radio it also had "Dameron" as a channel.
Any ideas or suggestions? Why is everything on a different frequncy and why cant I pick up our dispatch?
darkstar187
Member
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- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 37
I looked at Kenwoods website to kind the kind of radio we use... not exactly sure which one it is as ours maybe a little older but here are the possibilities...
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Communications/Land_Mobile_Radio/Trunking/TK-863G
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Communications/Land_Mobile_Radio/Trunking/TK-980-981
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Communications/Land_Mobile_Radio/Trunking/TK-863G
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Communications/Land_Mobile_Radio/Trunking/TK-980-981
It's gotta be the TK-863G since the second one only supports 800/900 MHz systems. Also, try disabling the 216-300 MHz and the 300-406 MHz ranges for signal stalked by pressing the keys [3] and [4] while in Signal Stalked mode (their corresponding numbers will disappear from the list). Those bands are only used by military aircraft, so you must have caught some harmonics (correct term?) of the real frequency located higher in the 400 MHz band.
Have you tried programming in these frequencies in a conventional bank?
452.0625
452.7625
...and while in MANUAL mode, setting the frequency to "LT" by pressing the [MODE] button?
Try doing that to both frequencies, without the bank being set to any trunking mode (so first ignore the instructions I gave you about [PGM]->[TRUNK]).
Scan as you regularly would and wait to see if you hear traffic on them. If you do, it will be on those frequencies ONLY, so the scanner won't be able to follow a specific conversation, but the bottom of the screen will show you the TALKGROUP ID (A-HH-GGG format remember?) followed by the current repeater channel number (Rxx, where xx is a number between 01 and 20). Make sure to do this while you only see one talkgroup ID on the screen while someone is transmitting.
If someone is transmitting but you see two different talkgroup IDs and repeater channel numbers alternating back and forth, then one call is being redirected to a free channel since the current one is busy. Wait until that stops and you only see one consisten talkgroup ID and repeater number from the time the person keys up to when they unkey, and that will be the channel number of the current frequency.
My money is on those two frequencies, since we already confirmed that the FCC license is to Crystal Communications and that it's located on Pine Hill (just like your "Pine" channel suggests), and you already found their INPUTS with signal stalker before.
The INPUT is a frequency used for the mobile to transmit to the repeater. The repeater takes what it hears on the input, then amplifies it, and rebroadcasts it on the OUTPUT. The radio in the ambulance receives ("listens") on the output, but transmits on the INPUT when you key the microphone. While you key it up, it mutes the audio from the output so you don't hear yourself being rebroadcast through the repeater and back through your speakers with a small time delay (it can be quite distracting!).
The offset (or distance between the INPUT and OUTPUT frequencies) is standardized on this band to 5 MHz. So by simply doing the math, we knew that you would get a signal stalker hit on the INPUT frequency when keying up the mic in the ambulance - so if the frequency you got was 457.0625 MHz, you subtract 5 MHz from that to get the output. 457.0625 MHz - 5.0000 MHz = 452.0625 MHz.
To recap, you will hear dispatch and ambulances on the output. You will only hear ambulances on the input (and only if they're fairly nearby, because this frequency is not rebroadcast through the tower on Pine Hill).
Try the above method and see if you can hear them on those two freqs I gave you while scanning conventionally (with LT mode for the individual freq turned on), and if so which Talkgroup ID and Repeater channel number you saw them on... and from there I'll try and help you get the system up and running so that you can just monitor their talkgroup without the extra stuff.
If you really felt like it, try keying up those other channels (Vaca, etc.) while you have the PRO-97 in signal stalker mode but turn all the numbers for frequency ranges OFF except for 5 and 6. (This is range 406-470 MHz and 470-512 MHz which we're sure your radio operates in.) While in Signal Stalker, the third line of the screen should look like this:
I'd love to hear what you find.
KMA371, is that the type of traffic (and unit IDs) you're hearing on TG 0-06-078 of that system you submitted?
Inigo
Have you tried programming in these frequencies in a conventional bank?
452.0625
452.7625
...and while in MANUAL mode, setting the frequency to "LT" by pressing the [MODE] button?
Try doing that to both frequencies, without the bank being set to any trunking mode (so first ignore the instructions I gave you about [PGM]->[TRUNK]).
Scan as you regularly would and wait to see if you hear traffic on them. If you do, it will be on those frequencies ONLY, so the scanner won't be able to follow a specific conversation, but the bottom of the screen will show you the TALKGROUP ID (A-HH-GGG format remember?) followed by the current repeater channel number (Rxx, where xx is a number between 01 and 20). Make sure to do this while you only see one talkgroup ID on the screen while someone is transmitting.
If someone is transmitting but you see two different talkgroup IDs and repeater channel numbers alternating back and forth, then one call is being redirected to a free channel since the current one is busy. Wait until that stops and you only see one consisten talkgroup ID and repeater number from the time the person keys up to when they unkey, and that will be the channel number of the current frequency.
My money is on those two frequencies, since we already confirmed that the FCC license is to Crystal Communications and that it's located on Pine Hill (just like your "Pine" channel suggests), and you already found their INPUTS with signal stalker before.
The INPUT is a frequency used for the mobile to transmit to the repeater. The repeater takes what it hears on the input, then amplifies it, and rebroadcasts it on the OUTPUT. The radio in the ambulance receives ("listens") on the output, but transmits on the INPUT when you key the microphone. While you key it up, it mutes the audio from the output so you don't hear yourself being rebroadcast through the repeater and back through your speakers with a small time delay (it can be quite distracting!).
The offset (or distance between the INPUT and OUTPUT frequencies) is standardized on this band to 5 MHz. So by simply doing the math, we knew that you would get a signal stalker hit on the INPUT frequency when keying up the mic in the ambulance - so if the frequency you got was 457.0625 MHz, you subtract 5 MHz from that to get the output. 457.0625 MHz - 5.0000 MHz = 452.0625 MHz.
To recap, you will hear dispatch and ambulances on the output. You will only hear ambulances on the input (and only if they're fairly nearby, because this frequency is not rebroadcast through the tower on Pine Hill).
Try the above method and see if you can hear them on those two freqs I gave you while scanning conventionally (with LT mode for the individual freq turned on), and if so which Talkgroup ID and Repeater channel number you saw them on... and from there I'll try and help you get the system up and running so that you can just monitor their talkgroup without the extra stuff.
If you really felt like it, try keying up those other channels (Vaca, etc.) while you have the PRO-97 in signal stalker mode but turn all the numbers for frequency ranges OFF except for 5 and 6. (This is range 406-470 MHz and 470-512 MHz which we're sure your radio operates in.) While in Signal Stalker, the third line of the screen should look like this:
Code:
Group: . . . . 5 6 . . .I'd love to hear what you find.
KMA371, is that the type of traffic (and unit IDs) you're hearing on TG 0-06-078 of that system you submitted?
Inigo
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