FPS not in database?

[es93546]

It should start at the County level (where its in use). State level is for Statewide.









Have you tried the search feature?



View attachment 177896

Why add the extra effort of having to do a search? I should be able to bring up a state page, find the federal listings and then scroll down to "F" and find the Forest Service. It should be the same for every state without exception. Most of the paper directories, in their day, had a federal listing at the beginning of the text, followed by state and then finally county listings. Why should the most complete database lack uniformity?

 

[es93546]

It should start at the County level (where its in use). State level is for Statewide.









Have you tried the search feature?



View attachment 177896

"It should start at the county level." Are you suggesting that everything actually start there? Most National Forests are located in multiple counties so what do you do in that case? In the example of my search for one National Forest in the Midwest, the National Forest was located in multiple counties, yet was only listed in one county so I had to hunt and pick until I located it. As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the database search function, I prefer to click onto a state and then into the statewide page, scroll down to the federal page and get ALL federal agencies in one place. I know then, that while I find my original target, I can just scroll down to get the listing for an adjacent National Park, scroll up the page to find the corresponding BLM District. I don't have to back out to do a separate National Park search, a separate BLM search and if I'm interested I can also find BIA frequencies just above the BLM. Then I can also find the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service just before the Forest Service. There you have it then, on one page, with just scrolling I can cover the 5 major agencies that manage wildland fire without having to do 5 different searches. Sometimes I scroll multiple times up and down between the agencies. I can also find the listings for the "Interagency Dispatch Centers" and find narrative on what agency units are dispatched by the interagency center where I find the aviation frequencies used by the various agency units covered by each dispatch center. Now, imagine having to do searches for all of that when all I really need to do is find the federal listings under the state.

I'm not sure of this, but it seems like people in the Midwest and east seem to identify more with counties than those of us in the west. This seems curious to me as the counties in the east are so incredibly small in area. They might have more in population, but it seems like when you take a 50 mile jaunt down a highway, you pass through 10 counties along the way. In the west, a 100 mile jaunt might be the distance between gas stations and easily, depending on location remain in the same county.

 

[dave3825]

Why add the extra effort of having to do a search?

Because you said its time consuming looking thru a bunch of counties. lol

The disadvantage is you have to look in a bunch of counties searching for the agencies you are interested in. A time consuming process. I had to do this in one Midwestern state while looking for a National Forest.

There is FPS listed in Nassau or Suffolk counties (where I roam). But there is in NYC. So If I was going to NYC, and were interested in FPS, a quick search of "Federal Protective Service"

In the example of my search for one National Forest in the Midwest, the National Forest was located in multiple counties, yet was only listed in one county so I had to hunt and pick until I located it.

What's that on National Forest? So I can see what you see when seeing.

 

[es93546]

Because you said its time consuming looking thru a bunch of counties. lol



There is FPS listed in Nassau or Suffolk counties (where I roam). But there is in NYC. So If I was going to NYC, and were interested in FPS, a quick search of "Federal Protective Service"




What's that on National Forest? So I can see what you see when seeing.

If the federal agencies are on one page at the state level then I wouldn't have to do a search at all. Like I said National Forests, most of them anyway, are located in more than one county. It is a waste of data space to list them county by county, because you would be listing the same set of frequencies multiple times. Example, the last National Forest (Inyo) I worked on, has lands in 7 counties, 5 in California and 2 in Nevada. In this case do you list the entire batch of repeaters in each county or only list the repeaters county by county, depending on the county they are in. The forest has repeaters in 3 counties. Of the 11 repeaters (spread out over 185 miles) there are 2 right on the boundary with an additional 2 counties. You probably would not do this and would list the entire system 7 times, one for each county. That amount of duplication doesn't seem wise to me. Now BLM Districts are even larger than National Forests, would you list the same system in 20 counties and maybe more, in each of those counties? No, of course not, you would list them on one federal page. If you want to find what counties are included in a BLM District, you search for a map of the district, if it isn't on a Wiki page, using Google. My opinion is that we start with the largest entity and move down to the smallest ones, which are the counties and then individual cities within those counties. That is how taxonomy works (Kingdom, Division (plants), Phyla (Animals), Class, Order, Family, Genus and Species and sometimes Sub-species.

That National Forest you are asking about is the Chippewa in Minnesota. When you bring up the state of Minnesota one of the first things you see is that the statewide page doesn't have a category for the federal government at all. So you are forced to go county by county, which of course, only shows county outlines. I know that Minnesota (off the top of my head) has 2 National Forests (the other being the Superior), National Wildlife Refuges and some Indian Reservations (they are still called that), but I don't remember if they have any National Park units. If there was a federal page, I could figure that out quite quickly. All these would require Google searches, whereas if there was a federal category to click on I would find them all in one place.

 

[rgchristy]

I guess I'm backwards...

I do frequency searches to see what I receive in my area and start from there.

1. What is the NAC (to see if that narrows it down)? I look here:

Federal NAC Codes - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

1A. What is the RID ( same idea as 1.). Look here:

Federal Radio ID Planning - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

2. Do a search of the Federal Monitoring Forum:

Federal Monitoring Forum

The place to discuss monitoring federal government communications and related topics

forums.radioreference.com

3. See what ChrisP has to say:

The Fed Files Blog

4. Perform a Frequency Data search here:

RRDB | United States | Query

RadioReference Database Query - United States

www.radioreference.com

I use the "Query Metro Area by Frequency" and select all metro areas. That will tell me if it has already been documented in another geographical area in the US.

5. When all else fails, ask here:

Federal Monitoring Forum

The place to discuss monitoring federal government communications and related topics

forums.radioreference.com

 

[es93546]

I guess I'm backwards...

I do frequency searches to see what I receive in my area and start from there.

1. What is the NAC (to see if that narrows it down)? I look here:

Federal NAC Codes - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

2. Do a search of the Federal Monitoring Forum:

Federal Monitoring Forum

The place to discuss monitoring federal government communications and related topics

forums.radioreference.com

3. See what ChrisP has to say:

The Fed Files Blog

4. Perform a Frequency Data search here:

RRDB | United States | Query

RadioReference Database Query - United States

www.radioreference.com

I use the "Query Metro Area by Frequency" and select all metro areas. That will tell me if it has already been documented in another geographical area in the US.

5. When all else fails, ask here:

Federal Monitoring Forum

The place to discuss monitoring federal government communications and related topics

forums.radioreference.com

I don't do much of that at all. I use the database to look up frequencies when I write a file for an area I'm going to visit. I have categories for the lists or groups within the program. I start with a group covering natural resource agencies and wildland fire agencies. I start with all the federal agencies (USFS, BLM, NPS, USFWS,BIA), then state agencies and maybe a county if they have a wildland fire workload and very little municipal type traffic. Then the next group is for the highways (highway patrol and DOT), then I move down and start picking up county by county groups. If I'm going down a major highway, an interstate I keep the natural resource/wildland fire group on, then the highway agencies (highway patrol and DOT) on as it carries traffic that might affect my drive. Sometimes I just leave the natural resource/wildland fire group on if there is a lot of traffic. I also have groups for federal large wildland fire and state large wildland fire. I have 20 files in my GRE PSR-500/600's when I leave the house. I also have additional files in a laptop. It takes a great deal of research to write these files and I can't waste a lot of time doing searches. I need the database to list the information by level of government. These files are so large that I don't have time to post every frequency I'm curious about and ask questions. For local stuff I have a lot of sources of information, sources meaning a person who works for an agency or a document someone gives me or just happens to still be on the internet.

The "Federal Monitoring Forum" is mainly used by people in the eastern U.S. In the west nearly all the discussions of federal agencies is done on state forums and sub-forums, such as California has given the population and area size of the state. Once in awhile, when information I get applies nationwide, I will post it in the federal forum, but not often. Some people who follow federal agencies in the west don't even read the federal forum as it rarely has anything of interest covering the western U.S.

As for that federal file blog you listed, I took a quick look at it with an interest in the federal natural resource agencies. It is a general list of frequencies with many I listen to, not on his lists. His writeups of the agencies contain some errors as well. I just took a very quick look at them. The whole site seems to be eastern U.S. biased. Not a surprise as most of the population of the U.S. lives in the east, so the bias is understandable.

 

[dave3825]

I use the database to look up frequencies when I write a file for an area I'm going to visit. I have categories for the lists or groups within the program.

What scanner are you using? If BCDx36 or SDS, try Sentinel Add Channels On Range. Turn full db on in profile, select a range, select service types of interest, and it does the rest. Creates a fav list. Then delete any unwanted.

 

[rgchristy]

I don't leave the house much, so it works great for me, but it only works for local listening.

It would only work for traveling, if I were to spend time at each location, but it would definitely be time consuming.

I guess that I could expand 2. to include all forums for those that are found in state forums.

 

[es93546]

What scanner are you using? If BCDx36 or SDS, try Sentinel Add Channels On Range. Turn full db on in profile, select a range, select service types of interest, and it does the rest. Creates a fav list. Then delete any unwanted.

I have 2 GRE PSR-600's (base/mobile), one PSR-500 (handheld), a Uniden BC325P2, a BC-780 and several scanners that can't be computer programmed. I don't use any low cost or no cost software. I often don't use any databases, it is quicker for me to use information provided by agency personnel. I'm very picky about my information, I often update the RR database myself using information provided to me by my sources. I find myself labeling my entries different from the RR database, which is famous for labeling channels with undefined abbreviations. Examples "South PSACS" with no information as to what "PSACS" means. When I ask on the appropriate forum I often find that no one knows. I also see things listed in frequency or talkgroup numerical order with no consideration for how the comm system is put together. Example, talkgroup 2001 dispatch, 2002 information 2, 2003 tac 1, 2004 training, 2004 tac 3, 2005 dispatch secondary, 2006 information 1, 2007 tac 7, 2008 tac 5. I want them in order with all dispatch talkgroups together, tacs in a group in tac 1, tac 2, tac 3, tac 4, etc. Frequency order, in particular, is a joke when you are trying to follow traffic for one incident using several frequencies. I want the frequencies to match the order they are in the user's (officers, firefighters, paramedics, snowplows etc.) radios, not in frequency order, which makes no sense.

My programs are time consuming and I don't consider most databases to be complete nor accurate. Sometimes they are all I have for distant locations, but I find relabeling and changing talkgroup/frequency order necessary. I wouldn't have time for this, except in local areas, if I wasn't retired. At 77 I'm finding mobility increasingly challenging so listening to radios while I program them to be a reasonable activity for me to spend time on. It's a good activity for the mind.

EDIT: my primary interest in scanning is the natural resource/wildland fire management agencies. I have a lot of information not shown in the databases that I work with. I share some and some I can't share.

 

[EAFrizzle]

A frequency list at the state level would be very useful for military listeners as well.

 

[ecps92]

A frequency list at the state level would be very useful for military listeners as well.

True, but on the other hand, if the Base is only in One County, what do you do
Mil-Air under the State, but the Mil LMR under the County ?

I don't think we will ever get to a once-size fits all....
but standardizing the Agency names would be an excellent start

 

[es93546]

True, but on the other hand, if the Base is only in One County, what do you do
Mil-Air under the State, but the Mil LMR under the County ?

I don't think we will ever get to a once-size fits all....
but standardizing the Agency names would be an excellent start

If a federal entity is only in one county it should still be listed at the state level under the Federal tab. Otherwise if you are doing some research and trying to find a military base that is small enough to be in one county only, you have to guess what county it is in. That or you have to do a Google search and hope it will give you the answer right away, which is not guaranteed. If I'm looking for a particular National Wildlife Refuge that is small enough to be in only one or two counties, again, if it is buried down in the county listings I have to dig through the counties to find it. Or how about a small National Park Service unit, why should I have to hunt around to find what county it is in? My scanners are organized by a group or list or bank where I have all natural resource agencies, be they federal or state. State agencies (highway patrol and DOT) are not buried in the county listings and I know of no exceptions to that, why should federal agencies be different?

 

[ecps92]

If a federal entity is only in one county it should still be listed at the state level under the Federal tab. Otherwise if you are doing some research and trying to find a military base that is small enough to be in one county only, you have to guess what county it is in. That or you have to do a Google search and hope it will give you the answer right away, which is not guaranteed. If I'm looking for a particular National Wildlife Refuge that is small enough to be in only one or two counties, again, if it is buried down in the county listings I have to dig through the counties to find it. Or how about a small National Park Service unit, why should I have to hunt around to find what county it is in? My scanners are organized by a group or list or bank where I have all natural resource agencies, be they federal or state. State agencies (highway patrol and DOT) are not buried in the county listings and I know of no exceptions to that, why should federal agencies be different?

Which is where, one size fits all doesn't work.

Observations from the little village of New England
Many of my area MIL are generally One County, some multiple towns.
NPS - varies, but each has a unique location to serve vs wide area
and the USFWS that uses radios is generally one location/one county/one-two towns.