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FRS/GMRS/MURS on VHF/UHF Radio

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K2RNI

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In my area, most of the bad operators are actually licensed - a testament to the fact that the FCC just doesn't care much about the PRS bands, if at all.

Same here most of the voices I hear on the scanner when listening to MURS/GMRS and CB are people I know from the amateur radio. One guy and his wife here use the 50 watt Wouxun mobiles to chat on MURS. Another guy a couple towns over uses the 40 watt mobile as a base on FRS to mess with kids and anyone else who dares use a bubble pack within range of him.
 

K6LED

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One guy and his wife here use the 50 watt Wouxun mobiles to chat on MURS. Another guy a couple towns over uses the 40 watt mobile as a base on FRS to mess with kids and anyone else who dares use a bubble pack within range of him.

Ugh! This is the kind of crap that will ruin those bands, at least in some areas for some people. I don't think I'll have any bad karma selling the handhelds - can't do much damage with 2-5 Watts, but not sure if I care to sell any potentially "free-bandable" mobile radios that put out any more, even if I'm primarily marketing them for EmComm use. :/
 

Project25_MASTR

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Ugh! This is the kind of crap that will ruin those bands, at least in some areas for some people. I don't think I'll have any bad karma selling the handhelds - can't do much damage with 2-5 Watts, but not sure if I care to sell any potentially "free-bandable" mobile radios that put out any more, even if I'm primarily marketing them for EmComm use. :/

I'm in the process of migrating from GMRS to VHF LMR. Mainly just so I can play with digital modulation modes but also because it's only $50 more over the course of 10 years.
 

gewecke

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Same here most of the voices I hear on the scanner when listening to MURS/GMRS and CB are people I know from the amateur radio. One guy and his wife here use the 50 watt Wouxun mobiles to chat on MURS. Another guy a couple towns over uses the 40 watt mobile as a base on FRS to mess with kids and anyone else who dares use a bubble pack within range of him.
Sounds like some people need a good old fashioned education ... or be taken off the air! Wow. :( 73, n9zas
 

K6LED

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I'm in the process of migrating from GMRS to VHF LMR. Mainly just so I can play with digital modulation modes but also because it's only $50 more over the course of 10 years.

Just curious (haven't looked into it), do you need to have a business license or anything to prove that you're a valid business when applying for a LMR license?

Also, even if you do have a legit business (for the license), can you "get away" with using it for mostly personal comms (i.e. your family)?

If not, then this seems to be a good option for those that are serious about their two-way comms. I might considering marketing my radios for this segment if it's indeed viable. It's certainly easier to find quality yet affordable) radios that are Part 90 rather than Part 95. :)
 

nd5y

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Read the following at eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations:
Subpart C—INDUSTRIAL/BUSINESS RADIO POOL
§90.31 Scope.
§90.33 General eligibility.
§90.35 Industrial/Business Pool.

It specifies who can get a business radio license.

Then scroll down to :
Subpart N—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS

It specifies what types of communications are allowed.
 
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K6LED

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Read the following...

Thanks Tom. I was kind of looking for someone to sum it all up, but I went ahead and read up on it anyway.

So I guess unless you're disable, you really need a valid business or organization to get a LMR license.

It
s probably better that way or all the business freqs would start to sound like the way GMRS is going lately. :)
 

KM4FAE

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My apologies if this has already been addressed. But in regards to MURS, it has a unique bandwidth. The first 3 channels are more narrow band than what the standard Narrow band is on nearly all HT's (11.25 KHz vs the standard 12.5 KHz). Same thing with MURS channels 4 & 5 which are 20 KHz and standard wide band is 25 KHz. So there just isn't a handheld outside of MURS that can meet the bandwidth requirements of MURS.
 

prcguy

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If you have a business license to sell radios in LB you qualify for an LMR license to coordinate sales, warehousing, delivery and/or repair of said merchandise. You could also get a DBA and business license for neighborhood watch/search and rescue services and install a UHF repeater in town to support that. You could then allow some of your customers on the repeater if they become part of your neighborhood watch or rescue services.

BTW, I'm just across the bridge from you in Pedro.
prcguy


Thanks Tom. I was kind of looking for someone to sum it all up, but I went ahead and read up on it anyway.

So I guess unless you're disable, you really need a valid business or organization to get a LMR license.

It
s probably better that way or all the business freqs would start to sound like the way GMRS is going lately. :)
 

toastycookies

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My apologies if this has already been addressed. But in regards to MURS, it has a unique bandwidth. The first 3 channels are more narrow band than what the standard Narrow band is on nearly all HT's (11.25 KHz vs the standard 12.5 KHz). Same thing with MURS channels 4 & 5 which are 20 KHz and standard wide band is 25 KHz. So there just isn't a handheld outside of MURS that can meet the bandwidth requirements of MURS.


Check part 90.209. It is the same.

MURS operates with the same bandwidth as part 90 wide/narrow.
 

Project25_MASTR

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My apologies if this has already been addressed. But in regards to MURS, it has a unique bandwidth. The first 3 channels are more narrow band than what the standard Narrow band is on nearly all HT's (11.25 KHz vs the standard 12.5 KHz). Same thing with MURS channels 4 & 5 which are 20 KHz and standard wide band is 25 KHz. So there just isn't a handheld outside of MURS that can meet the bandwidth requirements of MURS.

12.5 kHz and 25 kHz actually refers to the spectrum reserved per channel and not the actual occupied bandwidth.

Part 2 actually has the calculations and how they relate to the emissions designators. A 5 kHz deviation analog signal has an occupied bandwidth of 20 kHz (as given by the emission designator 20K0). A 2.5 kHz deviation analog signal has an occupied bandwidth of either 11.25 kHz (as given by the 11K2 or 11K3 designators).

Also if you do your research you will find that prior to narrow banding, many densely populated areas were running a slightly narrower form of wideband on 20 kHz channels (16 kHz was the occupied bandwidth if I remember correctly) with 4 kHz deviation.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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I think they call them "interant" channels in the whole of Part 95A. (snip)
Regards, Bill

The term used for those 12.5 KHz channels was "interstitial".

In my opinion, there needs to be an NPRM to permit the use of Part 90 radios in GMRS provided that other parameters such as TPO don't exceed the 50 watts.

This could be extended to include MURS service under the same NPRM and while we are there, why not dual band? The FCC has resisted this when manufacturers have suggested dual band models. Yet I recall a Marine/FRS radio that made perfect sense.

Bear in mind that the enforcement of type acceptance is largely directed at importation and marketing. As we have seen, the FCC has their hands full of applications for new models on a daily basis. Some of these manufacturers have gotten some sketchy products past the system.
 

toastycookies

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The term used for those 12.5 KHz channels was "interstitial".

In my opinion, there needs to be an NPRM to permit the use of Part 90 radios in GMRS provided that other parameters such as TPO don't exceed the 50 watts.

This could be extended to include MURS service under the same NPRM and while we are there, why not dual band? The FCC has resisted this when manufacturers have suggested dual band models. Yet I recall a Marine/FRS radio that made perfect sense.

Bear in mind that the enforcement of type acceptance is largely directed at importation and marketing. As we have seen, the FCC has their hands full of applications for new models on a daily basis. Some of these manufacturers have gotten some sketchy products past the system.

part 80 + part 95a

Cobra Electronics: MR HH450 DUAL Walkie Talkie, Two Radio, Walkie Talkie Reviews


no part 95a +95j though at least that I have heard of :(
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Back to the original question, the basic answer is "Because the radio has not been type accepted by the FCC to operate on those services." With limited exceptions, the FCC will not generally grant equipment authorization for radios to operate in multiple services. The exceptions I am aware of are: FRS/GMRS and FRS/GMRS+VHF Marine (but at one time they stated that they would not grant type acceptance for additional models in that last category).

UPMan;
Can you explain why manufacturers of GMRS capable radios are resistant to offering a repeater mode?

I would like to see more high end equipment with repeater mode.

By high end, I mean rugged, with several battery options (lithium and AA Alkaline), receiver with helical filters, full power and adjustable bandwidth. I am using heavy commercial grade stuff that is long on the years, but could be tempted by a retail product that would light weight and suitable for daily use.
 
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