G4/G5 Call Alert Paging

[patt1345]

We are currently testing a few different paging methods to go along with some radio changes in the area. We currently use QCII tones on a P25 system. The idea has been discussed about switching to call alert for all pagers and radios. I have listed the setup and some issues we have ran into below, and hope someone has some solutions. If this cannot be done, we would like to know.

Call alert setup in pager with a portable radios P25 ID

TGID set to tone and none

Call alert being sent from an MCC console





1. Pager will only alert if the radio that is sharing its ID is turned on. If the MCC console does not see the radio “on” then it will not send the call alert

2. Pager activates appropriately for the call alert, but stores messages and alerts every so often because it says there is an unread message.

3. Page tone is weak. Not as strong and pronounced as the same alert tone on QCII

 

[hazrat8990]

Is there a department radio that is always powered on and registered on the system? If so, all of the pagers should use that ID instead of a bunch of individual radios that may or may not be turned on. Also, the pager won't receive anything transmitted from whichever radio's ID is used.

As far as unread messages, change the 'Unread Msg Option' to 'Speaker Off' to get rid of the reminder. All of them will still be heard and recorded as usual.

 

[hazrat8990]

Weak paging alert can be resolved on tab E11. I can assure you that a fixed volume alert that's maxed out WILL wake the dead!!

 

[patt1345]

The problem we are running into is not every department has a mobile radio that is always on. There are several posts saying the radio does not have to be on, but we cannot get this to work from the console or a portable radio sending the call alert. I was able to fix the other issues with your guidance.

 

[hazrat8990]

Pretty sure that a subscriber radio, with matching ID, must be registered on the system for it to work. They could use 65535 for the ID, but it would alert everything and kind of defeat the purpose of using call alert.

 

[talviar]

The problem we are running into is not every department has a mobile radio that is always on. There are several posts saying the radio does not have to be on, but we cannot get this to work from the console or a portable radio sending the call alert. I was able to fix the other issues with your guidance.

Basically- If the radio to be call alerted is not affiliated (ie on) to the RF Site ur Unication paging is using, the Call alert will not be sent to that area.

Call Alert is only sent out to RF Sites where the radio is affiliated.
This is a major drawback for Call Alert paging

Additionally- the dispatchers will hate it. For our area- a 5 department activation can be around 110 radios for call alert and 7 sets of tones on a VHF channel. If everything is set to go on initial dispatch- it can take upwards of several minutes for everything to go out.

Use the P25 paging on a talkgroup. Talkgroup can be forced to be carried on whatever RF Sites u want it to go. That way the tones drop on that TG over the air whether a radio is affiliated to that TG or not.

Been dealing with call alert paging since 1996 on an old smartnet system and since 2014 on an ASTR0 25 system with MCC7500 consoles.

 

[cavmedic]

Pretty sure that a subscriber radio, with matching ID, must be registered on the system for it to work. They could use 65535 for the ID, but it would alert everything and kind of defeat the purpose of using call alert.

Why would there need to be a radio with matching ID registered if the system would be 100% fulltime simulcast, across all the sites?

 

[hazrat8990]

Why would there need to be a radio with matching ID registered if the system would be 100% fulltime simulcast, across all the sites?

Call alert is when dispatch targets a specific radio ID. The target radio with that particular ID needs to be affiliated with the same site as the pager is receiving. The pager ID would need to to match the target radio's ID in order to receive any traffic, unless the system is set up to target a non affiliate. Also, simulcast has absolutely nothing to do with call alert.

 

[cavmedic]

Call alert is when dispatch targets a specific radio ID. The target radio with that particular ID needs to be affiliated with the same site as the pager is receiving. The pager ID would need to to match the target radio's ID in order to receive any traffic, unless the system is set up to target a non affiliate. Also, simulcast has absolutely nothing to do with call alert.

Simulcast meaning as in every site has same everything , and all traffic is broadcasted regardless of affiliation of any radio, every time / all the time


The call alert information would be sent via the control channel, which the pager passively monitors

That’s the questioning as to why a radio needs to be affiliated

 

[talviar]

Simulcast meaning as in every site has same everything , and all traffic is broadcasted regardless of affiliation of any radio, every time / all the time


The call alert information would be sent via the control channel, which the pager passively monitors

That’s the questioning as to why a radio needs to be affiliated

You are missing the general point---

For a call alert to initiate, a "device" aka radio or console initiates a call alert to the "Master Site" aka Trunking Controller targeting the radio ID it wishes to call alert. The controller then looks to see if that target radio ID is affiliated on the system and where on the system it is affiliated. If the radio is not affiliated, the controller sends back an immediate NACK to the initiating device so the user knows that the target radio is not on the system. If the radio is affiliated, the controller targets only the RF coverage site/cell that the radio is in. All of this is sent out over the control channel. There is one exception, if the system --AND-- radio are set with In Call User Alert (can't remember exact name) ---AND--- the radio is affiliated to a site/cell carrying the talkgroup the Call Alert is sent out on (Consoles tie the specific call alert to a specific TG for this purpose) the target radio will call alert. But the call alert signal sent in the background data on the voice channel will only be sent to the specific site/cell the radio is affiliated. Not to all site/cells carrying the TG.

The best option is for use of Quik Call II tones over a trunked talkgroup and that TG force broadcast over the desired coverage site/cells.

If you wish to discuss further as to how/why this happens, I suggest you consult with the Motorola engineers assigned to your system.

 

[cavmedic]

You are missing the general point---

For a call alert to initiate, a "device" aka radio or console initiates a call alert to the "Master Site" aka Trunking Controller targeting the radio ID it wishes to call alert. The controller then looks to see if that target radio ID is affiliated on the system and where on the system it is affiliated. If the radio is not affiliated, the controller sends back an immediate NACK to the initiating device so the user knows that the target radio is not on the system. If the radio is affiliated, the controller targets only the RF coverage site/cell that the radio is in. All of this is sent out over the control channel. There is one exception, if the system --AND-- radio are set with In Call User Alert (can't remember exact name) ---AND--- the radio is affiliated to a site/cell carrying the talkgroup the Call Alert is sent out on (Consoles tie the specific call alert to a specific TG for this purpose) the target radio will call alert. But the call alert signal sent in the background data on the voice channel will only be sent to the specific site/cell the radio is affiliated. Not to all site/cells carrying the TG.

The best option is for use of Quik Call II tones over a trunked talkgroup and that TG force broadcast over the desired coverage site/cells.

If you wish to discuss further as to how/why this happens, I suggest you consult with the Motorola engineers assigned to your system.

Not a Moto system….

 

[hazrat8990]

Simulcast meaning as in every site has same everything , and all traffic is broadcasted regardless of affiliation of any radio, every time / all the time


The call alert information would be sent via the control channel, which the pager passively monitors

That’s the questioning as to why a radio needs to be affiliated

Not sure why you keep describing what simulcasting is, or how it works. Again, simulcast still has absolutely nothing to do with call alert. The subscriber ID that is to receive information must be registered/affiliated on the system.

Not a Moto system….

P25 is a universal standard and so is QCII, but the Motorola name is often used since they were pretty much the only game in town when it was first adopted.

 

[talviar]

Not sure why you keep describing what simulcasting is, or how it works. Again, simulcast still has absolutely nothing to do with call alert. The subscriber ID that is to receive information must be registered/affiliated on the system.

P25 is a universal standard and so is QCII, but the Motorola name is often used since they were pretty much the only game in town when it was first adopted.

Amen brother!

Replace the word "Motorola engineers" in my post with "System Manufacturers engineers"

 

[cavmedic]

Not sure why you keep describing what simulcasting is, or how it works. Again, simulcast still has absolutely nothing to do with call alert. The subscriber ID that is to receive information must be registered/affiliated on the system.

P25 is a universal standard and so is QCII, but the Motorola name is often used since they were pretty much the only game in town when it was first adopted.

Pager ID / whatever ID used for said pager/ pagers registered as in “added into the system “ correct.

But requiring an affiliated radio to the site where the pages will originate from , affiliated to the talk group does not appear to be the case in this particular system as tested in staging.



Simulcast was mentioned as that’s how every talk group on the system is/ will be, talk groups are 100% full time , not multicast based on affiliated radios on a specific tower and not a zoned system where each zone has different frequencies . So maybe that’s where the confusion between what is being mentioned in previous posts.


The problem we are having is that the G4 will alert when paged from a radio with a different ID ( pager is unique on system) but we can not change the alerting options as it will only vibrate when alerted
regardless of the settings. Tech support has forwarded to manufacture in Taiwan, but haven’t heard a response yet.

It appears to be a glitch in the latest unication firmware.

 

[JThibs]

Newbie here...first post. I think my issue is related to this topic, but I'm very much still learning about these pagers and how everything works. Long story short, I work for a volunteer fire department and our prior communication officer just quit and left. I'm doing my best to take over his role since everyone else seems even more lost than I am.

I'm trying to figure out the call alert feature to program a knob position so the pager only alerts for our station's tones at night. There are 5 stations in the county (ours is the only volunteer station and the only one using Unication pagers), and we don't want to hear everyone else's tones and traffic throughout the night. I have the radio ID for our permanent station radio, but I can't get the alerts to function properly (ie. I can't get any tones at all). The county uses a P25 trunking system, and all of the other settings in the pager work great for daytime use.

Can someone please list the settings I should be using to get this working? Thanks!

 

[hazrat8990]

Does your station have it's own unique set of tones? Does your dispatch even do call alert paging, and does the station radio receive the alert?

You would need to enter the radio ID into PPS on tabs E2 and E6 and enable the binding feature for the channel knob on E7



Once you have it set up, add your TG's to the channel knob and scroll to the bottom. Click on the settings box and select the TG's that will receive the call alert.

If you get in a bind, you can PM me any time.

 

[JThibs]

Perfect, thanks! I'll give this a try.

Here's how our tones work across the county: when a call is initiated, there's a standard single tone that alerts at all stations followed by the description of the call and responding apparatus; then a separate tone sounds only at the station(s) of the responding apparatus. The second tone is the same for all stations, but it only sounds at the responding station(s). What I'm trying to do is setup the pager to alert when the second tone sounds at my station...basically ignoring the other stations' calls at night.