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n5ims

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Dig deeper. Read the justification letter at the link you provided:

"We declare this equipment meets the requirements of FCC Rules, Parts 90.203 (e) and (g) as
applicable. Programming of this product's transmit frequencies can be performed ONLY by the
manufacturer or by service or maintenance personnel. The operator cannot program transmit
frequencies using the equipment's external operation."

That's a lie, isn't it?

I have no opinion on the truthfulness or falsehood of the information they provided to obtain their certification. The fact is that until the FCC acts to decertify the radio, it is certified for Part-90 operation according to the FCC.
 

NW4G

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I have no opinion on the truthfulness or falsehood of the information they provided to obtain their certification. The fact is that until the FCC acts to decertify the radio, it is certified for Part-90 operation according to the FCC.

I don't disagree, but I'm sure you can understand the distaste I have for the situation.

Reckon what's up with that.


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BamaScan

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They are all good. I have bought from them all. I would say HRO is my first choice. Real Easy to call them. I have called the HRO store in California because the store in Atlanta was closed and recieved my radio in 2 days. They would fax the order over to Atlanta and it would ship from Atlanta. Hard to beat the Free Shipping from HRO. Texas Towers is another good source. I tend to stay away from Gigaparts because of the in state taxes I have to pay. I have even visited the Gigaparts store in Huntsville. I can say it was smaller than I thought it would be.
 

n5ims

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I don't disagree, but I'm sure you can understand the distaste I have for the situation.

Reckon what's up with that.


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It doesn't taste any better here. That's what happens when you (the FCC in this case) outsource your responsibilities, especially when you don't even do any validating the results from that outsourcing.
 

NW4G

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It doesn't taste any better here. That's what happens when you (the FCC in this case) outsource your responsibilities, especially when you don't even do any validating the results from that outsourcing.

I absolutely agree.


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MTS2000des

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So if the primary "reason" your customers "get their radios modified" is for "emergencies" (and I'm not even going to go there, because last I checked, my part 97 and part 95 licenses do not grant me blanket authorization to operate outside of the FCC authorized bands, let alone with equipment not certified for said operation by the FCC), why not call your "MARS/CAP" service this?

It is clearly been proven by the links I have provided that not ONE of the radios you offer this service for are indeed authorized for MARS/CAP, so says the NTIA.

The excuse that "we do the mods because we see people return radios that are DOA..." is laughable. Really? Maybe these people should NOT be performing any such unauthorized modifications to begin with, and should be reminded of the manufacturer's warranty terms and conditions.

I have to ask, is GigaParts a full service facility? If so, I take it all your technicians are CET's and have FCC GROLs? Modern shop with Aeroflex service monitors, SMD re-work stations, stocks of parts for all the radios you sell? I ask this because I bought a Yaesu VX-150 from you in 2006 that was bad out of the box, and your company told me you don't service radios, and to "send it to Yaesu for repair", I checked your website and don't see anything about your facilities service capabilities, shop rates, or policies....hmmm...

Personally I find the "emergency" excuse typical of whackerism. Anyone authorized to use part 90, 95, etc will have COMMERCIAL equipment (I do) thus, no need for making modifications to hobby equipment.

Have you ever put those radios you modify on a service monitor to verify their proper performance outside the amateur bands? We already know that 99 percent of VHF/UHF ham gear doesn't even support 7.5KHz steps, so it would be useless for most "emergency" use anyway, considering most VHF/UHF licensees are now narrowband, many on splinter channels (those that are not using some type of digital waveforms such as P25, NXDN, MotoTRBO, etc).

I'm sorry, but offering such "services" sounds about like truck stops that offer to "tune up" the many otherwise compliant CB radios to put out more than rated power or modulation, or tune "in between" channels...and the reasons you stated sound exactly like the ones those truck stops use when asked about it by the FCC.

Legal? Maybe. Ethical? I think not.
 

rapidcharger

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I'm still waiting to hear what the "several other legitimate reasons" are for offering modification services for extending transmit on ham tranceivers.

So far, we've got
1.) MARS / CAP (debunked)
2.) Because the owner will mess up their radio trying to modify it themselves (soon to be debunked)
3.) The old "it's for emergencies!" (Weak, at best)

Am I missing any or is that all the reasons that there are?

Now that we've established that Mars/Cap is not a legitimate reason, lets talk about owners breaking their radios trying to diy. I have a hard time believing this because there will still be a large number of customers that will be confident in their diode removing abilities to do it themselves to save money and possibly foul up their radios in the process. Now if you were offering the modification for free upon request as a mid term cost reduction strategy, I'd have an easier time believing that. Alas, I don't.
If someone modifies their radio direct them to the manufacturers warranty service department. If this is such a big problem for your own 30 day return policy (Assuming that's what you're talking about), put a safety seal label on the radio's housing that says "warranty void if seal broken".

Oh but "It's for emergencies!"
This may be a reason for someone to carry a frequency agile radio, or even modify a ham radio or transmit wherever they have to in a life or death situation. You can easily find where I have said on here time and time again that if someone is in a life or death emergency, they should transmit wherever they have to in order to get rescued. Fine or no fine, when your life is at stake, who cares about a fine?

But it doesn't justify promoting and offering a service whereby the modification is done for a price. That just encourages people to do the modification. And we're talking about hams here. Contrary to what the pictures in the brochures would have you believe, hams are not exactly known for their backcountry hiking, mountain climbing, mountain biking and expeditions in the wilderness where things such as cellphones and shouting won't get you the help you need.

Perhaps in another time, where we didn't have ePIRBS and PLBs and cell phones up the wazoo, and someone to actually talk to outside of the ham band on wideband 20 or 25 khz channels, we'd see a plausible reason here.




As for the UV5R, not that it has a whole lot to do with what we're talking about here...
as a couple of others have said, it does have a part 90 cert. But TECHNICALLY, it doesn't for how people want to use it. Starting with the bogus emission designator. What is that?! Or the insanely low power levels. People are going to use these for FM voice with 4 or 5 watts and thereby use the radio in a way that it isn't certified for.
How is that relevant to the discussion of modifying ham radios for profit?
Because if anyone sells one of those UV5R's (specifically because many other Chicom radios have legit part 90 certs) as a part 90 radio to be used for business or public safety, they too would be engaging in an unethical business practice.
But a Puxing 780 or Wouxun or any number of others are perfectly legit. If you, as a dealer, don't think it's ethical to sell them, then by all means, don't sell them. But that's not a reason to encourage and promote people to modify their ham gear.

I'm going to tell you why modifying ham radios and the use of the front panel programmable chinese radios has contributed to the slow, agonizing death of our hobby. And by "our hobby," I'm talking about monitoring, which is what this website and forum is primarily about.

If you've listened to any of the last remaining holdouts on vhf/uhf conventional, be it public safety or even mall security, it doesn't take long before you start hearing kerchunking and unauthorized transmissions, be them on purpose or accidental. I know of a ham who would never intentionally transmit on a public safety channel for which he is not authorized but because he had a modified radio and was not paying attention to what channel he was on at the time, he threw out his call sign over the police dispatch channel!!!
I'm not naming any names!!! :lol:
Bad, bad, bad, idea.

And when enough of this crap happens, when the vote comes up for migrating to some encrypted multi million dollar unmonitorable radio system, there isn't any opposition.
Therefore, modifying ham radios has played a role in the death of our hobby. I have a problem with the wholesale promotion of modifcation services for that reason.
 

WB4CS

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There is one very legitimate reason to have extended transmit capabilities in a transceiver and that is an emergency, that's also the primary reason amateur operators get their radios modified.

Two responses to this statement:
1) I would imagine that the real reason that some Amateur Operators modify their radio is for use on MURS, FRS, and GMRS. They will claim that it is for emergency only use, but the reality is it's usually done to circumvent the law and combine multiple radio services into one radio. Part 90 and Part 95 rules do not allow the use of a non type accepted radio in those bands.

2) As for the emergency aspect of it: I will not debate the morality of the idea of transmitting out of band to save a life. I will however debate the legality of it, to which the FCC is very clear on the matter. Even if a person transmits out of band and saves a life, there is a very clear possibility of large fines from the FCC. No matter the situation, if the user does not have the proper license and proper FCC type accepted radio, it's not legal.

I contacted the FCC Enforcement Officer over the Amateur Service for guidance on the subject a few months ago. Here's a snippet from his email:

Part 97 does not contain any “privileges authorized” for amateur radio operators that include Part 90 or Part 95 frequencies. Part 90 and 95 both require the use of certificated equipment. See Section 90.203 and 95.409. Use of modified amateur radio transceivers on Part 90 or 95 frequencies violate the rules because modified amateur radio equipment is not certified for either Part 90 or 95 radio services. The rules are clear that in order to use Part 90 or 95 spectrum, the operator must have the correct licensing and certified radios to use those services.” The debate you are referring to, therefore, comes down to “How can we get around the rules?” The answer is, “You can’t.” We will be happy to relieve you of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars and your amateur radio license if you transmit on channels you are not licensed to transmit on.

So as you can see, this is where those like myself question the motives of customers that buy modified radios. With the exception of MARS, there really is no other need for a radio to be sold already modified. If someone modifies their own radio that's one thing, but what about the liability your company could be in if someone purchases a modified radio and gets caught transmitting where they shouldn't, and blames your company for selling it? What would be your companies response in a situation like that? I have not researched the topic, do you know if there are any legal ramifications from the FCC for selling modified radios?

To the OP and moderators, I apologize if we've carried this thread off topic. I'm very glad to see a vendor joining in discussion and think it's a valuable asset to the forum.
 
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AK9R

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And, I agree that we are straying a bit off topic.

  • The subject of modifying amateur radios for out-of-band transmit has been beaten to death.
  • The subject of inexpensive Chinese radios with questionable Part 90 certifications being marketed to amateur radio operators has been beaten to death.
If you have comments or questions about GigaParts' products or services, this is the thread for it. If you want do debate the other topics (see above), please take it elsewhere.
 

KevinC

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I actually placed an order with them last week, they didn't have the quantity of the item I ordered in stock and offered a higher priced substitution at a reduced price. This suited my needs so I was happy.

I've also ordered from them numerous times in the past with absolutely no issues.

I would give them an A+ at least.
 

rapidcharger

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And, I agree that we are straying a bit off topic.

  • The subject of modifying amateur radios for out-of-band transmit has been beaten to death.
  • The subject of inexpensive Chinese radios with questionable Part 90 certifications being marketed to amateur radio operators has been beaten to death.
If you have comments or questions about GigaParts' products or services, this is the thread for it. If you want do debate the other topics (see above), please take it elsewhere.

Can you at least extend the courtesy for NW4G to have the final word if he wishes to make one?
 

AK9R

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NW4G is welcome to use this thread to discuss the products and services GigaParts offers and the policies under which they offer them.
 

JPSan

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Ah stop it all already.

I have done business with GigaParts in the past, many times and have no qualms about using them in the future. If I am correct I think they were originally Long's
Electronics back in the 70's.

So, until the FCC gets a hell of a lot more on the ball and forces, no demands all the ham radio toy manufacturers to tighten up there radio's ,then stop picking on this dealer. Stop the imports of ALL ham radios that can go out of the band that they were SUPPOSED to be designed for.
 
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WayneH

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I'll repeat W9BU hopefully in less terms so everyone reads it: Stay on-topic or your posts don't belong here.
 

dksac2

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I'm personally very disappointed with all of them AES - HAMCITY - GIGAPARTS --------- AES nor Hamcity will price match - they rather lose a sale (and a customer) for a 4 dollars and 95 cents price match discount. I guess mark up on Japanese radios must not be very high. For Chinese radios it's a different story ( I guess ) 'cause I can get an Anytone AT588-UV directly from the manufacture for $180 - yes, the one that sells for $300 here in the States. NR7J

Just make sure the radio that you buy from China is FCC certified, most are not. You may not care, but for some reason the FCC ever pays you a visit, it will only add to the fine.
I'm pretty sure the radios from China match FCC specs, but they may not and of course many will transmit out of band. Most of us are responsible, but there are always those who are not.
I find it easier to stay legal, even if it costs a little more.

Also, if you have a problem with the radio, the savings will be more than eaten up when you have to send the radio back to China to get another. If it's a $50.00 radio, it's a throw away, but a more expensive one may just cost you far more than if you had bought it in the states.

I also like to buy in the states, buy too much directly from China and US distrubitors will not be able to stay in business, and we do need them.


John KF7VXA
 

n9aok

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I just purchased a Tm-D710A from gigaparts and am awaiting my new Uhf/Vhf vertical that was backordered (on purpose). I have no complaints with this business and when I'm down there in October for work I'm looking forward to strolling the aisle's.

Also, why do all the manufacturers make it so insanely easy to mod their radios? I for one enjoy expanded receive offered with the mods. I didn't know expanded transmit was non-compliant and I would rather have those blocked if so. I've been inactive for a few years..maybe the mars/cap bandplan has changed since.
 

trlrdrdave

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I won't vote for Gigaparts being knowledgeable, maybe i just got a bad employee. Went in there to get a diplexor. Guy just looked at me. I said never mind I'd find it myself.
 

WB4CS

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I won't vote for Gigaparts being knowledgeable, maybe i just got a bad employee. Went in there to get a diplexor. Guy just looked at me. I said never mind I'd find it myself.

I don't work for Gigaparts, but I've been in there many times. One thing to keep in mind is that the store is dual purpose, computer equipment and ham radio. I believe their original (and primary) business is computers. Most of their employees are hams, but not all of them are active hams.

I like Gigaparts, but I miss RT Systems that used to be in Huntsville back in the 1990s. They had an awesome HF station set up and I made several contacts in the store while browsing their radio selection. I can't complain too much though, it's nice having an amateur radio store in the city I live in, not many people have that luxury.
 

SCPD

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I have done business with GigaParts in the past, many times and have no qualms about using them in the future. If I am correct I think they were originally Long's
Electronics back in the 70's.

So, until the FCC gets a hell of a lot more on the ball and forces, no demands all the ham radio toy manufacturers to tighten up there radio's ,then stop picking on this dealer. Stop the imports of ALL ham radios that can go out of the band that they were SUPPOSED to be designed for.

No Long's electronics was in Birmingham and the owner lives a few miles from me and a avid ham,he has a mountain top location and one heck of a antenna farm.I wonder sometimes how he mows the grass with all the towers and tower raising equipment in the yard!!!
 
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