GMRS opinions

[Scannernitwit]

Hello everyone.
Hoping all of you are well.

RadioReference has helped me in the past and I’m reaching out again.
Google and YouTube have been helpful, however, too much information.
Looking for opinions and recommendations.

This fall I will be in a remote area NW of Rangeley ME. Others and myself will be setting up several teaching stations; each approximately 100-200 yard apart. Staff and I will have commercial radios; from what I understand GMRS radios will also be used.

I want to purchase and install a GMRS radio in my truck and a hand held radio*.

Yes, I will get a license!

• Water proof and rugged (hand held)
• Field / computer programing... easier the better
• Simple to learn and use… I am a technological dimwit
• A good external antenna
• Plugs into truck lighter outlet (?)

It would be nice to be able to listen to local agencies if feasible. VHF?
I'm often in remote places and certain I'll find future use for the above.

Budget of $400.00

Regrets for the long read.
I figure the more I tell you the better you can help.

Thanks!

* What do you think about this radio? BTECH GMRS-PRO 5W GPS…
A back-up GPS is always a good thing to have.

 

[mmckenna]

This fall I will be in a remote area NW of Rangeley ME. Others and myself will be setting up several teaching stations; each approximately 100-200 yard apart. Staff and I will have commercial radios; from what I understand GMRS radios will also be used.

Find our for sure before spending money. 200 yards won't take much of a radio. Consumer FRS radios will do that no problem. No point in overbuying radios if you don't need to, unless you just want some really good GMRS radios.

I want to purchase and install a GMRS radio in my truck and a hand held radio*.

Yes, I will get a license!

• Water proof and rugged (hand held)
• Field / computer programing... easier the better
• Simple to learn and use… I am a technological dimwit
• A good external antenna
• Plugs into truck lighter outlet (?)

It would be nice to be able to listen to local agencies if feasible. VHF?
I'm often in remote places and certain I'll find future use for the above.

Budget of $400.00

Regrets for the long read.
I figure the more I tell you the better you can help.

Thanks!

$400 for a mobile and a hand held kind of limits you. Midland has some decent GMRS mobiles that will probably fit your needs. They have some that run about $165.00.
-Don't fall for the rookie mistake of thinking the power output (wattage) is as important as they want you to think. Don't spend more money for more power you won't use. If you are using these with hand held radios, having a much higher power radio might let you talk to them, but you may not hear them reply. The antenna is MUCH more important than the power output.
-Don't fall for the "up to ##mile range". Those are meaningless and only work when you are high on a mountain top.

As for a portable, if you are not experienced in programming commercial radios, don't go that route. It's not easy, it takes experience to do right, and it's not necessary. Get a good high end consumer GMRS portable radio. If you go with the Midland mobile, get Midland portables. While any GMRS radio should be able to work with another brand, having same brand radios will make life easier and save you headaches. If you are the "technological dimwit" you claim to be, don't try to overcomplicate this. It will just lead to frustration. Keep it simple. Keep it simple.

As for VHF, get a scanner. Yes, some of the cheap Baofengs will do VHF, UHF, FM broadcast, flashlights, mosquito repellers, bottle openers, but they don't do anything well. If you want to monitor other agencies, get a scanner. It's the right tool for the job. A scanner will also have a lot more capability than one of these Cheap Chinese Radios will have. There's a lot of people that show up here, they've bought $20 Baofengs and expect them to work like a scanner. They don't.

* What do you think about this radio? BTECH GMRS-PRO 5W GPS…
A back-up GPS is always a good thing to have.

BTech = Baofeng, basically the bottom of the radio barrel, polished turd. Baofeng is popular amongst those looking for a low budget radio. For some, they work fine. I had a site that ended up with a couple of Baofengs, and they were constantly complaining about the repeater having issues. I went on site, found the repeater was fine, and then proceeded to test their Baofengs and found them all over the place when tested on a $40K piece of test equipment. I replaced their Baofengs with some modern Kenwood radios and their issues all resolved. These low tier radios are a headache and are not good performers.

But, if you only need a radio a few times a year and don't expect to be hard on it, it might fall into the "good enough" category.
The GPS function might be cool, but when was the last time your GPS failed? Does your cell phone have GPS in it? I wouldn't put any trust in a low tier Baofeng radio, and I probably wouldn't put any trust in a GPS they built. GPS over GMRS is only useful if others have the same radio. But again, "good enough" might be "good enough".

Someone is likely to come along who owns the BTech radio and will give it glowing reports. I'm almost positive that will happen. But I've been in the two way radio industry for 30+ years and I've put these Chinese radios on expensive test equipment and they are NOT good radios. They fall down near the bottom of "good enough". You can easily do better.

Avoid the temptation to jump to high end commercial stuff. Like I said above, the programming can be complex and frustrating. Making sure they are programmed correctly to meet the FCC requirements will be a hard task and not easy for someone who's not trained in this stuff. There's a lot of funny little FCC rules that need to be paid attention to if you want this to be legal. As a new GMRS user, you'll waste a lot of time trying to learn how to deal with fancy radios. With your $400 budget, you'll end up with used commercial stuff that requires complex software, programming cables and some knowledge that you don't yet have. Avoid that sort of frustration.

 

[Scannernitwit]

Hello.

Thank you.

If there is one thing I have learned reading RR is that a good antenna matters. Much of that thanks to you! I have also learned about watts, miles and distance and the fluff used for marketing. My needs are basic, seventy five percent short distances, line of sight, then other.
Must be rugged and waterproof.

In one capacity or another I have used professional radios for a very long time.
I push the button and I talk, pause, release. That is my limit of skill.
On the personal side, programming is a big issue for me. I struggle with my scanner (!) and yes, I read the manual! The serious issue is that I do not have the skill to trouble shoot on the fly.

Motorola FRS radios have been used in past training and for the most part worked fine.
It appears that GMRS is the radio of choice for outdoor activities and participants will bring their radio because that is what they will have if something goes wrong. Those radios will be used for role-playing, unimportant logistics, and chatting.

High end professional radios in the cache will be used for “real” communications. Thankfully, others deal with that.

I spend a lot of time outdoors, mountains, water, desert etc.
My intent is to buy a hand held and mobile for personal use at the exercise and elsewhere.
(I do not need both... a better hand held is more useful for me.)

It is a personal purchase and I have flexibility in my budget. I pulled $400.00 out of my butt. However, I am in the fortunate position to spend more if necessary. As a consumer, I want to find a sweet spot between price and performance.

You are correct about the UHF/VHF features built in to some GMRS radios. More headaches and I don’t need that feature.

Your comments about Baofeng are well taken. I truly recognize the limits of one product that does it all. (Except Swiss Army Knives!) Same for your words about GPS. I do have a phone, but it is never my tier one navigation in the boonies. I own excellent hand-held GPS units and know how to use a map and compass.
I understand the consequences of navigation failure.

I appreciate the Kenwood radios comments. A close friend I trust is a SAR Tech serving with a very busy team in Scotland. I just returned from there. He suggested purchasing a used Kenwood and having it professionally programed for GMRS. I am considering that option. I understand the additional cost.

Hard to believe… there are skills I am good at, but radios not among them!
I often preach, keep it simple.

You may not remember me. Last summer I wrote to you about my pending voyage from Boston to NYC, up to Albany, NY, in a 17-foot open Boston Whaler. (Compass, pencil, and chart as primary, plotter as back-up) Despite very harsh conditions in the Long Island Sound, it went exceptionally well. Nine days, 400 plus miles and an awesome experience.

Thank you again.

 

[prcguy]

A Motorola XTL1500 makes a great GMRS radio and they usually go in the $200 range but there are some right now for $99 which is so cheap it should be illegal. These are 48ch 45 watt do every thing radios with internal speakers. To complement that you can usually get a surplus PRC-153, which is a Motorola XTS2500 model III with full keypad, 380-470MHz, FPP and a bunch of other stuff for around $125. These radios are many times the performance and quality of any Midland or other GMRS specific radio.

Even after you pick up the mic and power cable for the mobile and a new battery and charger for the hand held, you should be close to a $400 limit. BTW I have one of each in front of me now programmed on GMRS and other things and with multiple PL or MPL where I can pick and choose any PL tone on the fly from a menu and a direct/talk around button.

$400 for a mobile and a hand held kind of limits you. Midland has some decent GMRS mobiles that will probably fit your needs. They have some that run about $165.00.

 

[mmckenna]

A Motorola XTL1500 makes a great GMRS radio and they usually go in the $200 range but there are some right now for $99 which is so cheap it should be illegal. These are 48ch 45 watt do every thing radios with internal speakers. To complement that you can usually get a surplus PRC-153, which is a Motorola XTS2500 model III with full keypad, 380-470MHz, FPP and a bunch of other stuff for around $125. These radios are many times the performance and quality of any Midland or other GMRS specific radio.

Even after you pick up the mic and power cable for the mobile and a new battery and charger for the hand held, you should be close to a $400 limit. BTW I have one of each in front of me now programmed on GMRS and other things and with multiple PL or MPL where I can pick and choose any PL tone on the fly from a menu and a direct/talk around button.

I think that's an excellent option. I used several different Motorola models for years on GMRS and they worked very well.

I think he may need some assistance with the programming, however. I'd be happy to do it for him, but shipping the radio back and forth probably isn't the best option. Maybe someone closer can assist him.

 

[mmckenna]

Hello.

Thank you.

…….

Hard to believe… there are skills I am good at, but radios not among them!
I often preach, keep it simple.

I use a lot of Kenwood equipment and work, and it's treated me well. There's some good options on the used market, but programming may be a challenge.

As prcguy said above, there's some good used Motorola options, also. If you feel up to tackling the programming, either would serve you well.
If programming isn't something you want to take on, then the higher end consumer stuff might be a good choice. Up to you, either would work.

If you spend a lot of time outdoors, consider something like a Garmin InReach as one of your tools. I carry an InReach Mini when I'm out, just as a backup to the cell phone and which ever radio I'm carrying.

You may not remember me. Last summer I wrote to you about my pending voyage from Boston to NYC, up to Albany, NY, in a 17-foot open Boston Whaler. (Compass, pencil, and chart as primary, plotter as back-up) Despite very harsh conditions in the Long Island Sound, it went exceptionally well. Nine days, 400 plus miles and an awesome experience.

Thank you again.

I do remember that! Sounds like a really nice trip. I always liked those little whalers.

 

[Scannernitwit]

Hello everyone.

Thank you for the comments and insight.

Used commercial radios are products I have thought about.
I'm certainly familiar with Motorola products and have some experience with Kenwood.

Purchasing pro-radios to repurpose appears to create controversy on Radio Reference.
Complex programming at the top of the list.

Regardless, I searched XTL1500 on Google; many on E-Bay cost less than a Retivis, Baofeng, and the numerous similar radios from China.
It can be difficult for me to purchase from E-Bay since I lack product knowledge.
If I were to purchase an XTL1500 I would have it programed by a professional and "locked" so I can't mess it up. (!)
Remember... I still struggle with my Uniden scanner!

Google, YouTube etc. are great resources for learning and are very helpful.
Sorting through the many reviews and opinions is what makes informed decisions difficult for me at times.

I do not need a GMRS radio, but it will be helpful and I am willing to spend a little bit more for a good product.

After reading your comments it is likely I will go the route of using a refurbished commercial radio and today I will spend some time learning about the XTL1500 and the Kenwood radios.

I truly appreciate your input, thanks.

 

[mmckenna]

The XTL radios are nice, but a bit larger than the Kenwood TK-8180.
Both radios can be set up with a remote head, which makes installing in a vehicle a bit easier.
I've run both XTL's and Kenwood's in trucks.
The XTL-2500 I ran required power to the remote head as well as the RF deck.
I currently have a Kenwood TK-7180 (VHF version of the 8180) in my wife's Chevy Colorado, and it's smaller head fits in better and doesn't require a separate power feed to the head. RF deck is under the rear seat.

If you have a full size truck, either one will fit just fine. If you don't need the remote head, it's kind of a wash, one power feed.

If you search e-Bay, you can sometimes find radios that have been programmed with GMRS channels already. Other sellers will program for you for free or a small fee.

The XTL-1500 was available in a 380-470MHz version and a 450-520MHz version. You may find the lower band split version is a bit more in demand for amateur radio use (70cm band 430-450MHz) and might command a higher price. The 450-520 version might be a bit cheaper. If you have plans to get your amateur radio license, you might want to consider the 380-470 version so you could do 70cm band stuff in the future. Either one will do GMRS just fine.

The Kenwood TK-8180 came in a couple of models:
30 watt and 45 watt models. Sometimes you can get the 30 watt mobile a bit cheaper. The 15 watt difference has little impact on the range.
There were also a 400-470MHz version and a 450-520MHz version. Either will work fine for GMRS.
One area you need to be careful of is that radios with newer firmware will not do wide band FM on UHF, only narrow band. That's fine if all you are doing is talking to other narrow band radios, which many of the consumer grade radios are. Wide band is preferred for GMRS repeaters and most serious GMRS users.
If you want to get into the hair splitting arena, the 30 watt 450-520MHz TK-8180 is the only model that has FCC Part 95 (GMRS) approval. Most users don't care as the radios meet the specs either way.

There are other radios will that will do what you need, Icom, Vertex, EF Johnson, they'll all give you a good radio at a reasonable price. I ran Icom commercial radios on GMRS and 70cm ham band for years.

Motorola CDM-1250 and CDM-1550 are also a good option. Just make sure you get one that doesn't have the LTR trunking chip in it as it will limit you to 16 conventional channels. I'm running a few of those on VHF for ham and work use. They can be found fairly inexpensive and are not too difficult to program.

A good GMRS radio in your truck with a proper external antenna will be a good setup. When others complain about the short range of GMRS, you'll enjoy the full benefit of a good setup.

 

[Scannernitwit]

Hello everyone and thank you for the advice and insight.

My regrets for the delay responding back.

Today I spoke with a refurbished Kenwood vender referred to me by a friend.
It is likely I will purchase a hand held Kenwood TK3312 UHF radio tomorrow. Though not “water proof”, I believe it will fit my needs. They will program the radio for GMRS.My immediate need is for good transmit/receive in a wooded 200-yard line of sight. My immediate need is for good transmit/receive in a wooded 200-yard line of sight

I will also purchase a Kenwood Kenwood TK-8180 UHF mobile radio. When the mobile arrives, I will look into having it installed. Definitely do not want to do it myself! I can wait a bit.

I’d also like to learn how to do my own programing with a computer. It would be nice to be able to receive the local Public Safety communications and a few regional channels when I travel.

Off Topic: Motorola XTS1500 1.5 UHF radio…
What is your opinion of this radio for GMRS and as a basic Public Safety receiver? I have used this radio and this winter will be using it again for a course.

I’ll let you know how it works out.

Thanks again.

 

[mmckenna]

Today I spoke with a refurbished Kenwood vender referred to me by a friend.
It is likely I will purchase a hand held Kenwood TK3312 UHF radio tomorrow. Though not “water proof”, I believe it will fit my needs.

The radio, when new, had IP55 rating.
IP55 translates into:

An IP55 rated product is protected against dust ingress that could be harmful for the normal operation of the product but is not fully dust tight. It is protected against solid objects and water jets projected by a nozzle (6.3mm) from any directions. - See more at: The Complete Guide To Waterproof IP Rating - IP44, IP54, IP55, IP65, IP66, IPX4, IPX5, IPX7​

​

Kenwood says that the IP55 rating is only with the cover installed over the speaker/mic jack, or the speaker mic plugged in.

As a used radio, it may or may not still have that rating, but if it looks to be in good shape, you'll likely be just fine.
What it won't cover is dropping/holding it under water. Rain shouldn't be an issue at all.
I have a whole bunch of Kenwood radios with IP55 rating at work. Most of them have been on the job 10 years and I've never had an issue with water damage.

If you need better protection, places like West Marine will sell you a fancy plastic bag that you put the radio in.

I will also purchase a Kenwood Kenwood TK-8180 UHF mobile radio. When the mobile arrives, I will look into having it installed. Definitely do not want to do it myself! I can wait a bit.

Those are good radios.
Find an install shop that does 2 way radios. Don't use stereo shops, they usually don't have a clue how to do them correctly.

I’d also like to learn how to do my own programing with a computer. It would be nice to be able to receive the local Public Safety communications and a few regional channels when I travel.

Those radios will do UHF analog just fine. If the agencies you want to listen to are running any form of digital, you'll need a different radio.
KPG-89, the programming software for the TK-8180, is probably one of the easier and more user friendly radio programming softwares to use.

Off Topic: Motorola XTS1500 1.5 UHF radio…
What is your opinion of this radio for GMRS and as a basic Public Safety receiver? I have used this radio and this winter will be using it again for a course.

With any used radio, it really depends how it's been treated and how well it has been looked after. I had some 800MHz XTS1500's for a few years at work and they were just fine. But that was over 12 years ago. A radio that old needs some TLC. If you are thinking of buying a used one, make sure it's coming from a shop that has done some preventative maintenance on it, and especially has aligned it recently. As radio age, the components age also (same for the Kenwood's above), the aging components will result in the radio no longer working to spec. Might be a bit off, might be a bunch off.
If it's a good radio, it should work just fine for what you need. The programming software is more of a challenge, but there's tutorials on line, and some of them are actually good.

With any used radio, consider the expendable items. You should get a new antenna, old ones may be damaged and a bad antenna will spoil your day. Any used battery should be in question unless it has been properly tested for capacity.

 

[cfsimmont]

As for a portable, if you are not experienced in programming commercial radios, don't go that route. It's not easy, it takes experience to do right, and it's not necessary. Get a good high end consumer GMRS portable radio. If you go with the Midland mobile, get Midland portables. While any GMRS radio should be able to work with another brand, having same brand radios will make life easier and save you headaches. If you are the "technological dimwit" you claim to be, don't try to overcomplicate this. It will just lead to frustration. Keep it simple. Keep it simple.



Just curious, as to what you would consider "a good high end consumer GMRS portable radio"? One of the main issues i have seen with GMRS is the pure lack of good consumer grade GMRS radios. Seems you can either go with the bubble pack radios or some CCR's either way never know what your getting. Professional grade HT's are good but then you get into the whole mess of what radio's are Part 95, and getting software for some can be a real PITA plus the cost. Plenty of good options for HAM, but not the same for the GMRS users.

 

[mmckenna]

Just curious, as to what you would consider "a good high end consumer GMRS portable radio"? One of the main issues i have seen with GMRS is the pure lack of good consumer grade GMRS radios. Seems you can either go with the bubble pack radios or some CCR's either way never know what your getting. Professional grade HT's are good but then you get into the whole mess of what radio's are Part 95, and getting software for some can be a real PITA plus the cost. Plenty of good options for HAM, but not the same for the GMRS users.

At one time, Icom made a GMRS hand held radio that was based off their F21 commercial radio. In fact, it's model number was F21GM, the GM being for GMRS. It was a nice 4 watt radio, well built and easy to use. Interchangeable battery, antenna, accessories. It was ready to go out of the box. Quite popular at the time. Unfortunately they stopped selling it. Just couldn't compete with the cheap models. They do have some modern MURS radios that are really nice.

Other than that, going with the higher end Midland GMRS radios tends to get you something decent. There are drawbacks, mainly due to the non-removable antenna, but good user training can overcome some of that.

I'm not a fan of the Cheap Chinese Radios, but I suspect there are some out there that would work well if they were specifically designed/setup for GMRS.

If you can get over the programming challenge, the Kenwood TK-3180 is a nice option. The higher band split versions have Part 95, I believe.

 

[K6GBW]

If you are just looking to use some radios for point to point communication and don't need repeaters or other features then some simple GMRS radios should do the job fine. Take a look at the Retevis RB27 GMRS radios. They sell for somewhere around $30.00 and can be charged via a USB C cable in your car. No programming required, they are ready to go out of the box. I've played with these and for what they are they work great.

 

[Scannernitwit]

Hello everyone.
Just a quick thank you for your advice.

Recently received two (2) refurbished Kenwood TK -3180 handheld radios programed with GMRS, UTAC, FRS and some Federal Interops channels I am allowed to use. Used them yesterday in a remote area of NH and appear to work well.

Also, received a Kenwood TK-8180 UHFmobile radio and am looking into having it installed with a proper antenna.
Now I have to figure out how to use them!

Thanks again to all that replied and helped me out!
Take care,

Kevin

 

[Wynterspop]

This is a pretty solid little handheld.

Wouxun KG-905G GMRS Two Way Radio

Features. Performance. Power. The Wouxun KG-905G takes the best for the GMRS and puts it right in the palm of your hand! Designed with the serious prosumer in mind, the KG-905G lets you take advantage of all that the GMRS has to offer and more. And you get it all right out of the box!

www.buytwowayradios.com

 

[AB4BF]

This is a pretty solid little handheld.

Wouxun KG-905G GMRS Two Way Radio

Features. Performance. Power. The Wouxun KG-905G takes the best for the GMRS and puts it right in the palm of your hand! Designed with the serious prosumer in mind, the KG-905G lets you take advantage of all that the GMRS has to offer and more. And you get it all right out of the box!

www.buytwowayradios.com

Wouxun (pronounced "ocean") make very good radios. I have 3, 2 amateur handhelds and a GMRS which is the Wouxun KG-935G. I too bought mine from Buy Two Way Radios.com. Parts and accessories can be readily available from Amazon and eBay (and buy 2 way radios). The radio has performed flawlessly and I get very good signal and audio reports especially when I use the repeaters.

 

[DVINTHEHOUSEMAN]

The Uniden GMR4000 and 5000 series radios are pretty good little handhelds, although they're standardized and can't utilize repeater channels. However, they do get about 2 watts typical and 5 watts boost power. The 4040 (and its camo variant, the 4099) uses AAA batteries. Some others in the 4000 series use Li-Ion batteries or AA batteries. I'm not sure what the 5000 radios use, but it's likely one of those three. The 4040/4099 and probably some other radios require some jerry rigging if you want to use your own rechargable batteries and not the battery pack without the radio seeing it as alkalines. If it can charge outside rechargables, you won't need to mess with anything.

Reception is pretty good on the radio (I have a GMR4040) and transmit works pretty good, up here in the northwoods GMRS only goes maybe a mile or so at most from inside with a pair of handhelds, but you'll get farther with true line of sight (and both radios being outdoors helps). In dense forest, it could hear and talk to an older FRS 500mw Motorola radio pretty clearly about 750-1000 feet away. If you plan on using CTCSS or DCS with it, you have to wait a second before talking because it takes a little bit to pick up on the squelch tone/code, but it stays clear. Going CSQ has almost no wait time, only about 50-70ms with a decent signal.

IIRC some radios in the 5000 series are submersible, so waterproofing shouldn't be an issue. Pretty sure the 4000 series isn't or is only splash resistant. They are built well and can take a hard beating (my 4040s are 10 years old and still kicking, they've been dropped on rocks, in the snow, on the floor, on the ice, flew off a 4 wheeler going about 40, etc.) so the ruggedness is there as well.

IMO, very great radios and would definitely recommend for your use case, unless you want more watts and stuff it looks like it fits the bill pretty good. I'd say take some time and look them up, purchase a pair of them that have specs that you like, and try them out.