Good Dipole variation for DX'ng?

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xanderham8

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What is a good Dipole variation for DX'ng? I want to put a dipole wire antenna system that would be good for catching DX (aside of having a good receiver), which is better, an "Inverted V", a "Sloping Dipole" or a "Flat-top" dipole? I want the old-timers and experienced hams or radio operators to answer my inquiry. Please help. (I have enough floor area for putting up a dipole antenna).
 

DaveIN

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I've had good luck with a "trap dipole", with the traps tuned to different meter bands.
 

zz0468

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Since you mention several variations of dipole, they're all zero gain antennas. Sounds like you're goinf to be ending up with an antenna that's resonant at a frequency and it's odd harmonics, so on other frequencies, it's performance is going to be fairly unpredictable.

Be that as it may, in general, a dipole has nulls in the pattern off the ends, An inverted vee is close to omni-directional, and a sloper is slightly directional in the direction that it's sloped.

Chose the pattern that you need, and build it.
 
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Sometimes the orientation you use for a dipole is dictated by what is available for supporting structures. One location may be easy to put it up horizontally, while another location may work better with the inverted V configuration
 

xanderham8

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Dipole variations

So, which Dipole antenna works better (for catching DX), Sloper, Flatp-top or inverted V?
 

zz0468

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xanderham8 said:
So, which Dipole antenna works better (for catching DX), Sloper, Flatp-top or inverted V?
Yes. Seriously (?) there is no right answer to that question. What sort of pattern do you need? Pick the one that will serve YOUR needs best.
 

ka3jjz

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xander, while most any antenna will 'capture DX', there is a great deal more to the story besides just choosing the antenna. You must understand something about propagation, and what happens to a HF signal as it bends traveling in and out of the ionosphere. With that information, you should then investigate what type of antenna you want to use.

Too, keep in mind that a dipole is resonant at the frequency for which it is cut, and odd multiples thereafter. In other words, a 40m dipole will work quite well on 15, but not quite so well on 20. For transmitting, this is an important consideration. Receiving, you might well get by, but you should realize that the antenna pattern changes the further away you go from its designed frequency. This is the general point zz was trying to make, I think.

There are several questions that you should be asking yourself;

a. Just how much space do you have?
b. indoors or outdoors?
c. bands of interest (MW, 1.8-30 mhz, or both?)
d. What kind of receiver?
e. listening interests?

With these questions, you can begin to formulate a plan of attack. Our wiki has links for HF antennas and propagation (the latter in our 'special topics' area on the right, down toward the bottom). Use them to do some research, as both topics are critical to understanding when and how to 'hear DX'

73s Mike
 

mfuller1950

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Older hams especially for 80 meters or 40 meters use the sloper. The sloper is taking a dipole and attaching one end of the dipole normally on a tower and running at approximately a 45 degrees down to the ground. I used the 80 meter version to work dx. The orientation of a dipole depends a lot on the structures available. The flat top as it indicates is running the dipole horizontally, the inverted v as indicates is in the configuration of a "V" at the apex the angle is in the neighborhood of 110 degrees and is used if one has a good center support and normally run the ends approximately 20 - 25 feet off the grounds at the ends.

The sloper acts somewhat like a vertical antenna, giving a lower angle of radiation, where the flat top dipole or inverted "V".
 

kb2vxa

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I hate to burst your bubble but a horizontal dipole must be a wavelength or greater above ground to have a low vertical takeoff angle for "good DX". That means a couple hundred feet on 80M for example BUT since that's not a practical approach you take what you're given. A sloper tends to be directional but has a better vertical angle in the favored direction, that is the greater angle with respect to Earth.

A vertical dipole or ground plane type tends to pick up more man made electrical noise but stronger DX signals rather make up for it. There are many kinds of antennas for DX so a little research is in order being the subject is well beyond the scope of any discussion you'll find here. Your question will receive it's proper direction on a ham related forum and that direction leads to web pages galore. Just don't get lost in the links, bookmarks help you stay anchored.
 

xanderham8

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Many thanks

Hi,

Many thanks for a variety of opinions I got here. I appreciate your comments/suggestions. Mabuhay!
 

xanderham8

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Currently, I am licensed to operate in 10m,15m and 40m HF ham bands. I experimented with the flat-top, inverted v, and with sloper dipoles. I found out that inverted v is excellent for low angle Dx'ng, flat-top is noisier than inverted v. Sloper tends to be directional. I 'm very fortunate enough to deploy these kind of long wires. I appreciate your comments/suggestions, and I am very happy that these stimulate conversation and exchange of ideas. Many thanks.
 

kb2vxa

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Xander, thanks for paraphrasing me. (;->)

"A vertical dipole or ground plane type tends to pick up more man made electrical noise but stronger DX signals rather make up for it."

You found the inverted V to be superior because it's pretty much non directional and the closer you approach a vertical half wave the lower the vertical takeoff angle. If you can't put up a half wave vertical (and most don't) consider a grounded vertical folded unipole. It's just a tad shorter physically than a quarter wave yet it's electrically a half wave, one for 160M is about 60' just to give you an idea. Don't forget the "dog house" ATU, the feed point impedance is roughly 450 ohms.
 

prcguy

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Are you describing what would be a 1/4 wave groundplane with a parallel vertical element that's grounded at the bottom and attaches to the top of the 1/4 wave driven element? If so the impedance will be roughly the same as the groundplane without the parallel grounded element, or closer to 50 ohms. Look at any of the 1/4 wave folded groundplanes from DB Products, Sinclair, etc, they are 50 ohm and have no special matching devices.
prcguy
kb2vxa said:
Xander, thanks for paraphrasing me. (;->)

"A vertical dipole or ground plane type tends to pick up more man made electrical noise but stronger DX signals rather make up for it."

You found the inverted V to be superior because it's pretty much non directional and the closer you approach a vertical half wave the lower the vertical takeoff angle. If you can't put up a half wave vertical (and most don't) consider a grounded vertical folded unipole. It's just a tad shorter physically than a quarter wave yet it's electrically a half wave, one for 160M is about 60' just to give you an idea. Don't forget the "dog house" ATU, the feed point impedance is roughly 450 ohms.
 

xanderham8

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I'll rather make my own antenna

Hi,

Anymore suggestions/comments from you guys?
 
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kf4sci

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Antenna Design

xanderham8 said:
What is a good Dipole variation for DX'ng? I want to put a dipole wire antenna system that would be good for catching DX (aside of having a good receiver), which is better, an "Inverted V", a "Sloping Dipole" or a "Flat-top" dipole? I want the old-timers and experienced hams or radio operators to answer my inquiry. Please help. (I have enough floor area for putting up a dipole antenna).

You failed to mention what band(s) you plan to use. I prefer QRP contacts on homebrew equipment and antennas. I have had some rather incredible results using cubical quad antennas. Even on VHF and UHF!
 
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