mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
For the true LMR cables, the standard product offering has the UV inhibitor in the jacket. They do make other jacket types, but most of those are intended for specific applications like plenum use.
Hands down best RG8X?
- Thread starter K6GBW
- Start date
For the true LMR cables, the standard product offering has the UV inhibitor in the jacket. They do make other jacket types, but most of those are intended for specific applications like plenum use.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
www.theantennafarm.com
www.tessco.com
Crimp is easier if you have the correct tools. Soldering requires a lot of heat for the large connector/center conductor, and if not done carefully, you can melt the center dielectric. Industry rarely solders stuff due to this.
Great info! Just to make sure crimp is OK for low HF?
No plenum please almost ripped a vain working with that stuff.....yea guess I should have worn gloves....
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Crimp is fine for HF. I use crimp connectors on 800MHz all the time. Times Microwave makes an "EZ" type connector that sweeps well up into the multi-gigahertz range.
As a side note... I always considered a good solder connection to be vastly superior to crimp connections. They had never used crimp connections for spacecraft. I then found out that it is now (kind of, I think) preferred by NASA, using specifically certified tools / connectors.
As a side historical note, NASA started the whole NASA standard and high reliability soldering thing when they found that poor solder connections were a major cause of failures on the first spacecraft (i.e. Mercury, maybe Gemini), just blobs of solder being used to connect wires.
There is actually a reference for their standard.
https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/NSTD87394A.pdf
Wow, to find the standard, I looked it up and found that I had posted almost the exact same info on a different thread... At least I'm consistent
Thanks
Joel
Last edited:
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
There's a couple of issues with soldering:
- When the solder wicks up a stranded conductor, that conductor is no longer flexible and may break due to vibration.
- A -LOT- of people do not know how to properly solder.
- Soldering while up on a tower/ladder, etc. is difficult as the wind will blow the heat away as fast as you are putting it in. That can lead to cold joints.
Soldering, done right, can work just fine, but different specs for different applications, and soldering is sometimes not OK in some situations.
I've used connectors that use a solder on center pin and then a crimp on the outer shield. I think I've only had one fail in my career.
Crimping, done right, can work better. However, it requires the correct tools, and often hobbyists don't have the money to buy expensive crimp tools.
I do a lot of high current DC power stuff at work, and crimping is standard. No way to properly solder a connector on 350MCM cable.
Properly crimped connectors are "gas tight", as in they won't corrode. There's documented proof of this where properly crimped connectors are installed and it's a perfect gas tight connection. But again, requires the right tools.
Crimp connectors are easy to do outside or on a tower, no soldering iron needed.
Heliax connectors don't all use solder, and those are used in high power/high frequency applications.
I have no problems if someone wants to solder a connector on. But I don't feel they are superior to a properly installed/crimped connection.
- When the solder wicks up a stranded conductor, that conductor is no longer flexible and may break due to vibration.
- A -LOT- of people do not know how to properly solder.
- Soldering while up on a tower/ladder, etc. is difficult as the wind will blow the heat away as fast as you are putting it in. That can lead to cold joints.
Soldering, done right, can work just fine, but different specs for different applications, and soldering is sometimes not OK in some situations.
I've used connectors that use a solder on center pin and then a crimp on the outer shield. I think I've only had one fail in my career.
Crimping, done right, can work better. However, it requires the correct tools, and often hobbyists don't have the money to buy expensive crimp tools.
I do a lot of high current DC power stuff at work, and crimping is standard. No way to properly solder a connector on 350MCM cable.
Properly crimped connectors are "gas tight", as in they won't corrode. There's documented proof of this where properly crimped connectors are installed and it's a perfect gas tight connection. But again, requires the right tools.
Crimp connectors are easy to do outside or on a tower, no soldering iron needed.
Heliax connectors don't all use solder, and those are used in high power/high frequency applications.
I have no problems if someone wants to solder a connector on. But I don't feel they are superior to a properly installed/crimped connection.
I agree soldering does take time and practice to be able to do it well...
I noticed in the NASA reference a problem (for me at least), there is a short section on splicing two wires with solder... and it violates one of the main principles of any solder connection, which is that the solder is only for improving electrical contact, not holding things in place (figure 19.1 of the reference), I have no idea what they are thinking with that idea. It is great that they still cover really old school lacing though.... (for those never having to do this, lacing was used a lot before plastic tie wraps were around, and were basically really thick, flat dental floss. (fig 9-5) used to tie bundles of wires together.
Thanks
Joel
rf_patriot200
Member
Messi & Paoloni: Cavi Coassiali e Connettori RF Messi & Pailoni is Italian made Coaxial cable, and some of the Best cable on the Market. Price is Comparable too.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I still have my cable lacing stuff. Haven't done it in forever. Looks good when done right.
Most aviation work, I'm told, doesn't permit soldering of connectors for the vibration issue.
Usually when a hobbyist complains about poor crimps, its because they are using the wrong tools and/or the wrong connectors. The $5 'smash-n-pray' crimpers from Harbor Freight are not the right tool for the job.
Aerospace has gone mostly crimp.
A general purpose aviation crimp tool set can cost $10K or more.
The specific tooling for a large business jet can be $20K+.
Ham radio crimpers are cheap by comparison. If you do a fair amount of work with
RG8 or 8X, spend the 100 bucks or so and get a good crimp tool with the appropriate dies.
It turns a sometimes tedious task into a piece of cake. You will never melt the foam dielectric again.
A general purpose aviation crimp tool set can cost $10K or more.
The specific tooling for a large business jet can be $20K+.
Ham radio crimpers are cheap by comparison. If you do a fair amount of work with
RG8 or 8X, spend the 100 bucks or so and get a good crimp tool with the appropriate dies.
It turns a sometimes tedious task into a piece of cake. You will never melt the foam dielectric again.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I've got one of the <$100 sets at home, and they work quite well. No name brand off amazon, haven't had any issues with them.
I've probably got $3K worth of various coax crimp/cable prep tools in my work truck, and it's really nice to have, but no way I'm spending that at home.
The basic sets work well for hobby use, RG-58, RG-8, and some of the newer ones will do LMR cable. I agree, if you are serious about the hobby, it's a good tool to have. Being able to make your own custom cables quickly pays for itself. Order a few extra connectors and take some scrap coax and practice.
Hate to ask but is there an inexpensive crimp tool?
eorange
♦RF Enabled Member♦
How did you choose this one? Educated guess and you just got lucky, or...?
The rest of us would just see many no name brands and probably end up with cheap crap.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I have this exact kit, although I think I paid about $85 for it 10+ years ago:
That'll give you all the crimp dies you'll likely ever use as a hobbyists and a lot more.
Don't get hung up on the cable name, each connector brand is going to have specs for the crimp diameter, usually in hundredths of an inch, that are recommended. The above tool will give you that. It'll do RG-213, LMR-400, RG-58, etc.
The strippers that come with that are less than ideal, so learn how to strip coax using a ruler and a good sharp exacto knife. The stripper isn't set up for any particular connector, and each brand/size will have different specs.
While only crimping RG-6 & RG-11 while working for Time Warner I was given a Cablematic Crimp tool
....I didn't know it would make much difference as long as it was the right size crimp...
Unfortunately, retired and I'm well into my 60s and will not be crimping much other than the antenna run and maybe some jumpers so I was looking for a workable inexpensive crimper.....
Ubbe
Member
It's difficult for a novice to use professional crimping tools as they are unforgiving to any mistake you do. It's a learning curve with both cutting the coax correctly and doing the crimping and needs you to sacrifice some expensive connectors to get the hang of it. You buy a +$100 tool and use it only once or twice. It might be a good idea to listen with the local HAM club if they have tools and people who already know how to use the tools properly to let them do the job for you, for a box of donuts. They might even have a Site Master in their posession to measure the end result.
/Ubbe
/Ubbe
In the Air Force.. I had to take high reliability soldering a bunch of times, one of the instructors had actually taken the NASA standard course (of course this was years ago), the big thing that I got out of his class on soldering the RF connectors was that the braid has to be brushed out with a tool made of the same material as the braid. That there was to be no overlapping braid where it was put over the little shelf thing, everything else was mostly common sense. The instructor said that at NASA they had them connect their practice cable up to a bar and do a chin up on it to prove its strength (obviously years ago). What I had to learn on my own was that with most RF connectors from N to SMA, is it's really important to grip the body with a wrench before tightening down the nut (or it would twist and ruin the connection) AND most wrenches are too thick for doing this, we learned that some ignition wrenches are thin enough.
and of course, last but not least, crimping tools should ratchet, a connector should have to be fully crimped before the tool will release.... If anyone else but you are going to use it, figure out how to release the ratcheting action BEFORE someone gets their finger stuck, (or a pencil or whatever).
Thanks
Joel
Thanks! That's a great idea.....I do need to go to a meeting since I also want to upgrade my ham license!
Similar threads
